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Northern Ireland is now Catholic Majority

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    The publicly funded GP service is probably the main one. Nordies here in the 26 resent paying GPs privately and rightfully so.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I think in this case proponents of a united Ireland will have to include continuing with the Stormont infrastructure so that NI would contine with its own devolved parliament. Thats the only model for UI to include NI only that I can see.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You do realise dont you that NIs economy has a HUGE swathe of civil service employees. There are more civil servants in NI than anywhere else in UK. Its a legitimate question to ask how the Irish government could take on all that cost.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Historically that's certainly true, but as the NHS continues to wither on the vine I've noticed a marked drop in how much of an issue this is to people and it continues to fall.

    I've extensive experience with both systems and I've not missed the NHS for a day since moving out of the North. If I was moving today I'd miss it even less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    People in Northern Ireland are not used to paying for a Dr appointment, never mind the actual examination and possible resulting tests. No prescription fees. Parents currently don't pay for education/curriculum school books. As for water - drinkable please - I don't know how many boil notices have been issued in the Republic, they seem to be more and more frequent. A United Ireland will happen, - eventually, however, adding circa 2M people, the politics, the different expectations will be tricky to say the least - never mind about the financial implications. Will SF be the larger political party ? It will be close. FF & FG will not like that. SF will if voted in, wont put up with some of the previous old boys and gals club, rock the boat so to speak. The sheer nepotism and cronyism in Ireland takes my breath away sometimes - and No, its not something that happened in the distant past, but recent past.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Cull the civil service by natural wastage then. Employers in private sector crying out for staff. Employment not an issue.


    On the whole economic argument. The south has no natural resources over the north. The south used its advantages of being able to set a low corperatation tax to win FDI. Angel Merkel as part of brexit insisited should there be a UI then it will be treated in the same way as the ROI is now within EU. Ie the north will be able to have the same competitive corperatation tax as the south. Cant see why the north wont catch up very quickly with the south.


    People when discussing the economic argument always seem to think NI will be perpetually a economic burden. Why??? Look a few miles to south and see how it successfully the south turned it around since the 1980's. The north will have the exact same opertunities as the south and given it has the second largest city in Ireland and dublin is bursting at the seams it will get FDI very quickly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Whenever the vote happens… the likelihood is the overall result will be known / predicted in advance…

    which will probably deter a lot of unionists from voting even.

    there would need to be one hell of a security operation in place though, I can’t imagine even if a democratically enabled decision is forthcoming and backed by the GFA that the loyalists / unionists would accept it with a shrug of the shoulders and a whimper… they want to be seen as not accepting it… fighting it.

    id imagine it would be a tricky few weeks for the PSNI… it might get very ugly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    We may have a devolved UI but that jurisdiction of NI is toxic. It has to go. One of the main reasons people would vote for a UI in the north is to end NI not keep it alive. It has too much baggage in its history. A UI needs to be a fresh start. Even some people up north dont like the history of the ROI. So why weld two disliked jurisdictions of ROI and NI together to create a "new" country. If it is devolved new fresh boundaries need to be created that dont have all the negative history.

    A devolved NI does not even function in the UK. Why woud it be different in a UI.


    NI has a shameful history of sectarianism. The ROI has a shameful history of letting the Catholic church run riot. Kill them both and create a new fresh state without the historical baggage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You just simply wont convince many at all in 6 counties to get rid of all the Stormont government structures - all sides like them. A United Ireland has to be about recognising local needs of NI and not merely subsuming everything into ROI structures. Keeping a regional assembly with the powers they currently have has to be a serious option on the table.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I agree with you and have been making this point for years.

    It started with the 2011 census which showed that there are now three minorities in the North - a British one, an Irish one and a Northern Irish one. Convincing the Northern Irish minority to support a united Ireland involves two things, firstly an unanswerable economic argument and secondly, retention of the Northern Ireland devolution within a federal or other overarching structure.

    A border poll on those terms could be won tomorrow. A border poll for a single unitary state, as favoured by the exclusionary nationalists, might never pass.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Think you misspelled DUP there...........

    SF seem to be changing their tune. MON was very gracious and statesperson like concerning the death of QE2. They're starting to offer an olive branch to moderate unionists.

    Never voted for SF in my life and likely never will. But there are those like your good self who are obsessed with them and attacking at every opportunity. They're a legitimate political party in ROI and NI with a large base of voters. That has to be respected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No respect. A legitimate political party is debatable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    By vitue of that disrespect, you're showing contempt for a increasingly large portion of voters on the island. I wouldn't vote SF in a month of Sundays for economic reasons but I'm aware to the fact that the other parties need to start making radical changes fast or SF will be driving the bus North and South. That will mean them pushing for an UI on their terms. It's up to the more mainstream parties to get real about an UI and a border poll and take control of the push for it. Attitudes like yours only help SF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have no respect for Le Pen's National Rally party either, or various other extreme right-wing parties. SF is just another version of them from a different political perspective, controlled by a cabal of old men in Belfast.

    SF are not getting into government anytime soon in the South, as no other party will do business with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    If a United Ireland comes that it won't be an overnight event and there will be negotiated British withdrawal involving financial support as well as support from EU and USA.

    This will then give time for Ireland to modernise the Northern Ireland economy, which has been treated as stagnant backwater by the British and this will lead to more investment, jobs and growth enabling people to be taken off civil service roles and work in a new economy.

    People talk as if these costs are just going to be there forever and nothing can ever change. Different thinking required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Where is this idea that Northern Ireland is a socialist utopia come from?

    They may have free doctors, but the people are poorer, lower paid and have shorter life spans than in Ireland.

    Social welfare payments in Ireland are also much higher in Ireland than in Northern Ireland.

    Either way, all of these issues can be worked out and resolved with various steps.

    For example your point about education, which is also free in Ireland, has been tackled already as in the news today is that the budget tomorrow will announce free school books for all primary schools from next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Ireland's rate of disability allowance is higher though and the disabled people in the Republic have more supports and are more likely to join the workforce



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Much better in the Republic and you don't need anecdotes to prove it. Look at average life expectancy and average outcomes for major illnesses such as cancer etc. The Republic has far better health generally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    This is a great post. Reminds me of how east Germans feel, their experience is unique but becoming a more distant memory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Support from the EU and the USA will be negligible. As for the British taxpayer, they will want a dividend from getting Northern Ireland off their hands, not a continuing subsidy.

    The costs for the first 20 years will be a huge burden on the normal Irish person.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,732 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Really?? I doubt if your average citizen of this Republic would agree with that. Maybe you have private health insurance that allows you to skip the queue?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    There'e really nothing to back up with you are saying.

    Who said there would be a subsidy from Britain forever?

    There will be phased economic support and from various bodies and I don't believe the EU contribution would be negligible.

    Also I believe there would be a huge economic dividend from ending of partition which has damaged Ireland's economy and as I said the economy in the North will change and be managed differently and the burden of civil service would ease.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    The average person in Ireland does have health insurance and look at every measurement used, Human Development Index, life span etc and things are better in Ireland than Northern Ireland in every metric.

    Ireland is by no means perfect but it's also nowhere near as bad as what people on forums like this and The Journal comments section try to make out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    You can't just drop a comment like that without back up fella, this is not Reddit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We are net contributors to the EU, that won't change. There are now far bigger problems in Eastern Europe that will need finance and support from the EU. We will be at the back of the queue and considered wealthy enough to look after ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,157 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I don't recall East Germany having a sizable chunk of the population that claimed they were Soviets, Russian, etc and wanted to remain part of another country.

    We have a crumbling health system, a total lack of very necessary social housing, a not fit for purpose education system, but yeah we are rich and prosperous.

    We are a very rich country on paper a bit like a lot of Irish were millionaires back in 2007.

    We have fook all indigenous industry bar agri that every fooker wants to crucify these days.

    We almost totally rely on FDI.

    Germany on the other hand.

    Hmmm I can think of loads of indigenous German multinationals that aren't simply there because of low tax regime.

    Germany had a government debt of 20% of GDP in 1990.

    Ireland in 2021 had a government debt of 56% of GDP.

    Would all these serious economic studies that paints such a rosy economic outlook all come from one camp ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Off the topic, but some of these Unionist "advocate" types like Jamie Bryson provide some of the best unintentional comedy on twitter, some of the guff is absolute gold, not to mention the replies he gets.

    The industry guys like this tend to create for themselves just shows how fecked up the place is. Whip up as much fear and dissent and please god i'll get paid to speak about how victimized we are. Its a very vocal minority of course, but my god are they vocal.

    I'm still amazed the likes of the DUP make their decisions on the whims of what the loyalist paramilitary groups on the ground demand, they all seem like very strange bedfellows. There is real industry/money to be made out of being belligerent. The sooner Alliance start making more ground the better to be honest, for everyone in the North.

    Does anyone ever debate the whole Protocol anger from the perspective of loyalist gangs being unable to import their "product" alot easier by the way? Its really a huge part of their problem. These loyalist "gangs" are really more interested in the drug trade than any ward again "them uns" in this day and age, the whole threat of violence is really from a very small minority of people with loud voices and little to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    It won't work that way. Northern Ireland is of great interest to the EU and USA.

    Both are fully behind the Good Friday agreement and NI uniting with Ireland will be a huge geo-political event and the EU will want it to be a success and will be behind it. Funds will certainly be available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We are a small island on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean, be realistic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,442 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    What has being on the edge of the Atlantic mean or matter?

    Ireland is a fully signed up member of the EU. Have you noticed how the EU backed Ireland fully in relation to Brexit and the border?

    The USA was integral and vital to the signing of the Good Friday agreement in 1998 and even now the US government is telling the UK not to mess up the the agreement and introduce a border again.

    There is large political and economic interest in this.



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