FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853980#Comment_119853980

Well maybe they'll go after the restricted shotguns first.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853980#Comment_119853980

I agree about S/A shotguns. They have a strong use case. Vermin control on farms all over the country.

S/A CF have been restricted for a while. What sort of genuine have people been successful with? Certain target shooting disciplines? (Gallery rifle??) I assume not for hunting but what about varmintimg?

BSA International

Looks like the post 2015 ban on c/f s/a rifles is going to go ahead so?

Amendments to 1875 explosives act there too I don't see them making reloading at home possible?

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855939#Comment_119855939

Perfectly legal for hunting/culling here. I use one. Bullsye 360 is another An riocht runs about 3 disciplines now. Two lads I met up at Midlands last Saturday have got Oberland9mm PCCs and are shooting Gallery,and were hoping to get PCC started here as well.Good luck with that!They are going to be about 2.5 K down now courtesy of that Ministerial Bi&*ch and her underling bollocks!😡 In fact, they are welcome and used in any discipline not specifically stating an action requirement.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855985#Comment_119855985

Oh!Dont forget reloading is PERFECTLY legal to do in Ireland according to the DOJ! So long as you can fulfil all the legal requirements of importing the powder and primers and have complied with the Explosive storage act of 2007 regarding making or reloading munitions! By the time you have done that , your rifle/shotgun shell will cost on average 100 euros. Irish solution to an Irish problem!

Munsterlad102

Any update on the expert panel? The proposed legislation completely undermines the legitimacy of the panel if they haven't even discussed it yet, perhaps it's time for our experts to leave this panel if it's just going to be used as a casus belli for banning more types of firearms.

Also pardon my ignorance, but what's the story with the 18th September 2015 cut off date? Surely that can't be used if there's not only a new minister, but a new government and 3 separate ministers for justice.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858664#Comment_119858664

The so called expert panel met three times. The link to the minutes of two if those meetings is on the previous page I believe. October is missing.

The date is important because this is when the statement of intent was red in the Dail by then justice Minister Francis Fitz. Like with pistols in 2008 so when the law came into effect it was applied retrospectively to the November 2008 date.

As for new Government and Ministers. Makes no odds. Any Government can introduce any law and if that so happens to be one that was worked on by a previous administration then so be it. The reading in the Dail still stands, the party in question is still in Government, and none of that is made moot by a new Minister. Otherwise any new bill/CT would have to start from scratch any time there was a cabinet reshuffle.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858806#Comment_119858806

Where was it read into the record of the Dail? I've looked and can't find it.

Cass

Haven't a notion. It was 7 years ago. Not going to spend evening looking either.

Not being smart with you btw, just not going on a searching expedition.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858836#Comment_119858836

I can find jack sh1t relating to it in the Dail records. Now there's a million places to look and maybe it's there and I haven't found it yet. Or maybe it's not there.

Do we even know if it was read into the Dail on 18th September 2015 or if it was read into the record at an earlier date. The only think I know for sure is that the raft of measures including this ban was publicised on 18th September 2015.

I can't find the original press release but here's the AGSI blog on it. https://agsi.ie/articles/minister-fitzgerald-announces-changes-to-firearms-licensing/

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858806#Comment_119858806

Shame the records are so vague. Any idea if there's a recording or something more specific?

itisnotgrand

ok so CF/SA are banned. What’s next on the chopping block?

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858871#Comment_119858871

Damn you, Sir.

Went looking and found this thread;

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057495683/new-si-released-changes-to-licencing-upcoming

It discusses the release of SI391/2015, the formation of the firearm review committee, and the Ministers intent to cap (which was illegal so never happened) and ultimately ban the further licensing of SACF rifles.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856767#Comment_119856767

Fully aware it’s legal. Some will recall my (sometimes controversial) view that the genuine reason on an application does not create an automatic restriction - the restriction must be added.

But I was more wondering what reasons people people had used in the last decade to get restricted SACFs granted. Gallery/Bullseye is one. Wondering if vermin/hunting has been successful.

Does this pending ban make LARS and straight pull more viable?

Cass

I used vermin control and target shooting. Mine was 223. I "argued" the SA was capable of doing both jobs well, otherwise I'd need two rifles. A dedicated target rifle and then a secondary hunting one.

Oddly enough my reasons were never questioned and my suitability, age, experience played a much larger role in getting it.

itisnotgrand

It seems by reading the ministers 2015 SI that .22 handguns are next to go? How soon before they enact this into an act?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119859557#Comment_119859557

Too old or too young ;)

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860445#Comment_119860445

Exactly. Looking at that stuff Cass found, which was why I bought a .22 pistol shortly after it's publication, leaves the door open to Minister to target them too :(

itisnotgrand

Lord that’s depressing reading. 🤕😮‍💨

However they can’t retrospective take our .22 pistols now. They will have to state it in dail or in a SI or Act that pistols are also banned and I’ve not seen it in any of the acts or SI. So far so good but if anyone is reading this then get yourself licensed on a pistol ASAP.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119859557#Comment_119859557

@ Mellor ^THIS^ used the same reason way back in 2008.Was accepted no problem at all.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860445#Comment_119860445

Not going to happen as there is now court precedent[s] in the SACF pre 2014 and with the .22 handguns as well. I get the impression this is why they won't go after this as it would be messy and cause further ructions politically. Also,like most things the Irish Govt takes queues or orders from Brussels on most legislation and with the EU being told to FO with the so-called "assault rifle ban" post the Paris massacres.Ireland can't exactly go against the grain on this point either.

But they could imply the mag ban because that was an EU directive limiting them down to 10 shots in centre-fire calibres. As .22 sport pistols are legal in every EU country[even the UK in a bastardised form] there is no reason for Ireland to be the outsider. It's the weasel wording and circumstances that would make Sir Humphry from the "Yes Minister" Tv show look like a tongue-tied fool when dealing with Paddy the ministerial advisor.

"Oh no Reloading is legal here. So long as you comply with an industrial act for commercial munitions manufacture, and not designed to reload a dozen target rounds, and you can spend tens of thousands setting up approved reloading facilities"[IOW build a munitions plant and start rolling out ammo on a commercial basis].[Its the reason Midlands has what look like atomic blast bunkers for reloading]

"Oh yes, we allow centre-fire pistols and semi-auto rifles...[To those who had the luck to not get caught in our net,and made nuisances of themselves in our court system]"." You can own them but our police force won't license them on our orders, past a certain date and we don't have to pay you peasants compo either because we haven't confiscated them either...We respect private property ownership here in Ireland Frau Van Der Lyen"🙄

Grizzly 45

On a more practical side of things. Would anyone be interested in forming a delegation of owners of these rifles directly affected to petition to meet the minister[s] involved in this personally? There should be exactly 38 of us affected going by a ministerial answer to a Dail question on this.

It seems our mainstream organisations like the NARGC FRUG movement is gone remarkably quiet and NASRPC is doing....?

A bell the cat moment here.Try to speak up or forever bemoan the loss of your rifle [and future types of guns no doubt] on social media.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861148#Comment_119861148

If the 308 bit was liscensed pre-2015,then it would be good to go in semi. If it was post 15 probably you would need the 308 upper in straight pull or pump action[Yes.There is a pump 308 AR upper] and the shotgun in 12GA is just a restricted 12 GA semi shotgun I looked at those 12GA uppers.They arent that great and it can take apparently some tweaking by a gunsmith to get them to run well too.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860486#Comment_119860486

Fine line 😁

Grizzly 45

Ageism,like gender, is a fluid constraint these days.

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860756#Comment_119860756

Re 22 pistols, I agree with you. If you have one now or get one before a "statement" or "emergency legislation" gets into Dail your OK........... fingers 🤞

garrettod

Agreed, better late than never, I suppose...

If we were all to agree to do one thing, even at this late stage, it would be to focus on getting rid of James Brown, as both Minister and TD....

We could begin by concentrated lobbying of both Leo and Michael, plus FF & FG parties, to remove him from Justice, for gross negligence & prioritising personal agendas, while issues with recruitment of Gardai, Crime in Dubin City etc have been disregarded. With changes due next month, we might get him out, if we put pressure on, this month.

At the next election, we do all we can, to support his opponents, in his constituency. That's everything from local canvassing, donations to fund raisers for his opponents, campaigns on social media etc.

We obviously get out friends, family and others in the shooting community on board, to help.

itisnotgrand

Totally agree Garrett. Any politician I’ve spoke to apart from one was totally uneducated on firearm laws. The general MO seems to be to support anti gun laws as it promotes their own agendas.

garrettod

I'd also suggest that we start trying to find ways to support those politicans that have a reasonable, and open minded approach, to licensed firearms.

I've seen people like Cathal Berry TD and Senator Craughwell quite supportive of our Defence Forces, and wonder if anyone knows what their positions are on licenced firearms sports, for example?

No doubt other politicans are also worth thinking about? In an ideal scenario, even get a few of them out for a day at the clays etc.

Perhaps the Mods might consider how this thread cold be split, to facilitate further (sensible) discussion on this

Cass

Perhaps the Mods might consider how this thread cold be split, to facilitate further (sensible) discussion on this

There have been dozens of threads of that exact nature and one, possibly two, in relation to that notion for this exact topic. They always go no where for a number of reasons.

Now this is not the "final word" only my opinion so if others want it then by all means start a thread but here are the common problems as previously discussed.

• No organisations or even people will set aside their differences long enough to maintain a stable and effective lobby group.
• We simply don't have the numbers. 155,000 licensed people (not guns) over 26 counties makes for poor power base.
• Of those 155,000 very few are single issue voters and it would require all gun owners, their families, friends, neighbours and then some to the able to put pressure on any TD to push for change.
• SACF rifle owners account for 0.05% of all licenses and half of them will be grandfathered. If people could not get change when thousands of gun owners were in the same position back in 2009, not to mention had the support of the major gun organisations then why would they support 30 odd people now?
• Who do you vote for in the future? Sein Fein? More anti gun than FF or FG according to their party members, and statements over the past 10 years or so.
• Any change to TDs or Government will come too late to be effective and no Government has ever repealed or lessened the severity of a gun ban or restriction. No reason to think that trend would change.

Again I'm not saying don't discuss it, by all means go for gold, but at the risk of constantly being the voice of doom and gloom, this bill has progressed to this point meaning it's being in the works since before the so called expert panel was created. That means the committee, the charade of transparency and inclusivity, and the meetings were simply a front with rubber stamping bring the main goal.

They [Government] want this and we have nothing to stop them with.