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New SI released, changes to licencing upcoming.

  • 18-09-2015 12:02pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Hi Folks,
    New SI was just released today and other changes to firearms licencing announced:
    • The Minister intends to make fundamental long term reforms in this area by proposing legislation for a Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority.
    • The Minister has noted the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendations in relation to the establishment of a national firearms control and advisory licensing authority and an independent appeals process in relation to decisions of An Garda Síochána.
    • The primary function of the Authority will be to determine, on the basis of an objective assessment of all the issues, with safety of the public being paramount, whether particular forms of firearms may be licensed in the State, whether there should be any limit on the number of such firearms and what safety conditions might properly be applied to their licensing.
    • While these will be the basic functions of the Authority the Minister will consult as to the range of functions which could be assigned to the Authority. The legislation, which would take some time to prepare, will be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny by the Joint Oireachtas Committee.
    • Individual licensing decisions will continue to be made by members of An Garda Síochána in the light of the determinations made by the Authority but it is intended that the Authority will adjudicate on appeals from decisions by An Garda Síochána. This will offer an alternative to the current system of court appeals.
    • Taking account of the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendation in relation to the need to introduce secondary legislation in advance of the renewal of many firearms at this time, the Minister has now signed secondary legislation re-defining what constitutes a non-restricted handgun.
    • The purpose of this legislation is to ensure that, while the Minister, of course, cannot interfere with individual licensing decisions, persons who currently hold licenses for handguns will be able to reapply for a license in the current licensing round.
    • This legislation will clarify for An Garda Síochána what firearms may be considered by them for licensing. I enclose a copy of the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) (Amendment) Order 2015 for your information.
    • The Minister notes the Oireachtas Committee recommendation that 0.22 inch rim fire calibre handguns be further temporarily restricted. The number of licences for these types of handguns will be monitored and legislation will be introduced as a priority, to provide that no new licences will be issued for such handguns, prior to the establishment of the Authority, if there is a significant increase in the number of applications for new certificates or import licence applications in this regard.
    • The current arrangements introduced in 2008 whereby no new licences will be issued for centre fire handguns will remain in place.
    • It is intended to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the establishment and determination of the Authority.
    • Legislation will provide for the revocation of any licenses issued between now and the enactment of the legislation and it is intended that anyone applying for licenses of this nature will be informed of that fact.
    • The Minister intends asking the Garda Inspectorate to review the administration of firearms licensing by An Garda Síochána, following the establishment and operation of the Firearms and Assessment Authority for a 12 month period.
    • The Minister has noted the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendation that the Garda Inspectorate carry out an independent review of the current firearms licensing regime.
    • Given the changes now proposed, it is deemed more appropriate to review the administration of firearms licensing by An Garda Síochána when the new arrangements are in place for a 12 month period.
    • It is also intended to re-establish the Firearms Consultative Panel to examine general issues of common concern which could include issues such as the establishment of a ballistic record of certain firearms, updated storage conditions for firearms and the reloading of ammunition.
    • The Minister has noted the Garda Commissioner's intention to establish a centralised licensing system for restricted firearms, pending the establishment of the Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority which will determine what firearms should be licensable.


    New SI:
    STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
    S.I. No. 391 of 2015
    FIREARMS (RESTRICTED FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION) (AMENDMENT) ORDER 2015


    I, FRANCES FITZGERALD, Minister for Justice and Equality, in exercise
    of the powers conferred on me by section 2B (inserted by section 29 of the
    Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17
    of 1925) (as adapted by the Justice and Law Reform (Alteration of Name of
    Department and Title of Minister) Order 2011) (S.I. No. 138 of 2011)), hereby order as follows:

    1. This Order may be cited as the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) (Amendment) Order 2015.

    2. This Order comes into operation on 15th September, 2015.

    3. Article 4(2) of the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order
    2008 (S.I. No. 21 of 2008) is amended by the substitution of the following
    subparagraph for subparagraph (e)—

    “(e) the following short firearms where a firearms certificate is sought
    for the purpose of using a firearm for target shooting on the
    premises of a rifle or pistol club or a rifle or pistol shooting range
    authorised under section 4A of the Firearms Act 1925 or at such
    other place as stands authorised under section 2(5) of that Act:
    (i) air-operated firearms designed for use with 4.5 millimetres
    (0.177 inch) calibre ammunition;
    (ii) single shot firearms designed for use with 0.22 inch long rifle
    rim fire percussion ammunition;
    (iii) firearms which are designed for use with 0.22 inch long rifle
    rim fire percussion ammunition and use magazines that have
    been manufactured or modified prior to use so as to
    accommodate no more than five rounds of ammunition”
    .

    GIVEN under my Official Seal,
    15 September 2015.
    FRANCES FITZGERALD,
    Minister for Justice and Equality.

    Press release out:
    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Minister_Fitzgerald_announces_changes_to_Firearms_Licensing
    Minister Fitzgerald announces changes to Firearms Licensing

    · Proposal to establish new Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority
    · Immediate cap on licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic
    rifles
    · Minister signs new Statutory Instrument re-defining non-restricted
    handguns
    · An Garda Síochána to establish centralised licensing system for
    restricted firearms
    · Garda Inspectorate to review the administration of firearms licensing
    · Re-establishment of Firearms Consultative Panel
    · No changes to the licensing of shotguns and the vast majority of
    rifles which make up 99% of licensed firearms in Ireland.

    18 September, 2015

    Minister Fitzgerald determined to prevent any proliferation of handgun
    availability in Ireland while ensuring that target-shooting can continue in
    a regulated manner

    Frances Fitzgerald TD, Minister for Justice and Equality has today
    announced a series of changes to the licensing of firearms in Ireland.

    This follows widespread consultation with key stakeholders and hearings by
    the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality and Defence on a report
    from a Joint Garda Síochána / Department of Justice and Equality Working
    Group published in November 2014.

    The Minister thanked the Oireachtas Committee for their detailed
    deliberations on this matter and she further thanked An Garda Siochana and
    stakeholders including bodies representing rural and sporting interests for
    their proactive engagement during the Minister’s consultations.

    Minister Fitzgerald stated: “It is clear that there are different,
    genuinely held views as to the approach which should be taken to the
    licensing of firearms in Ireland, particularly in relation to handguns.”

    “I share the concerns of An Garda Síochána in relation to public safety and
    I am determined to prevent any proliferation of handgun availability in
    Ireland. However, I also acknowledge the dedication and responsibility of
    the owners of legally held firearms.


    “I appreciate that certain measures must be taken in the context of the
    current renewal cycle for firearms. Accordingly I am today announcing a
    series of proposals which will address issues in the short term but also
    maps out the longer term future for a licensing system which balances the
    rights of those who wish to pursue their interests with public safety,
    which has to be the paramount consideration.”



    Minister Fitzgerald therefore decided on the following series of measures:

    Establishment of a new Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority
    The Minister intends to make fundamental long term reforms of firearms
    licensing by establishing a new Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority.

    The Minister has welcomed the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendations in relation to the establishment of a national firearms control and advisory
    licensing authority and an independent appeals process in relation to
    decisions of An Garda Síochána.

    The primary function of the Authority will be to determine, on the basis of
    an objective assessment of all the issues, with safety of the public being
    paramount, whether particular forms of firearms may be licensed in the
    State, whether there should be any limit on the number of such firearms and
    what safety conditions might properly be applied to their licensing. The
    functions of the Authority will be subject to further consultation in
    advance of the preparation of the necessary enabling legislation, which
    will be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny by the Joint Oireachtas
    Committee.

    Individual licensing decisions will continue to be made by members of An
    Garda Síochána in the light of the determinations made by the Authority but
    it is intended that the Authority will adjudicate on appeals from decisions
    by An Garda Síochána. This will offer an alternative to the current system
    of court appeals.

    Immediate cap on licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles
    The Minister intends to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the
    licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the
    establishment and determination of the Authority.

    Legislation will provide for the revocation of any licenses issued between
    today (18 September 2015) and the enactment of the legislation and it is intended that anyone applying for licenses of this nature will be informed of that fact.

    New Statutory Instrument re-defining non-restricted handguns
    The Minister has this week signed a new Statutory Instrument re-defining
    what constitutes a non-restricted handgun. This takes account of the Joint
    Oireachtas Committee recommendation in relation to the need to introduce
    secondary legislation in advance of the renewal of many firearms at this
    time.

    The purpose of this legislation is to ensure that, while the Minister, of
    course, cannot interfere with individual licensing decisions, persons who
    currently hold licenses for handguns will be able to reapply for a license
    in the current licensing round. This legislation will clarify for An Garda
    Síochána what firearms may be considered by them for licensing.

    The Minister intends to monitor the number of 0.22 inch rim fire calibre
    handguns being licensed. In line with her commitment to prevent any
    proliferation of handgun availability in Ireland, the Minister today
    announced that if there is a significant increase in the number of
    applications for new certificates or import licence applications for these
    handguns then she will introduce priority legislation for a future cap.

    The current arrangements introduced in 2008 whereby no new licences will be issued for centre fire handguns will remain in place.

    Gardai to establish centralised licensing system for restricted firearms
    The Minister has welcomed the Garda Commissioner's intention to establish a
    centralised licensing system for restricted firearms, pending the
    establishment and determination of an independent body to determine what
    firearms should be licensable.

    Garda Inspectorate to review the administration of firearms licensing
    The Minister intends asking the Garda Inspectorate to review the
    administration of firearms licensing by An Garda Síochána, following the
    establishment and operation of the Firearms Assessment and Appeals
    Authority.

    The Minister has noted the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendation that
    the Garda Inspectorate carry out an independent review of the current
    firearms licensing regime. Given the changes now proposed, it is deemed
    more appropriate to review the administration of firearms licensing by An
    Garda Síochána when the new arrangements are well in place i.e. 12 months
    after the establishment and operation of the Authority.

    Re-establishment of Firearms Consultative Panel
    The Minister intends to re-establish the Firearms Consultative Panel to
    examine general issues of common concern which could include issues such as
    the establishment of a ballistic record of certain firearms, updated
    storage conditions for firearms and the reloading of ammunition.




    There will be no changes to the licensing of shotguns and rifles which make
    up 99% of licensed firearms in Ireland.

    Minister Fitzgerald stated: “These proposals are aimed at balancing public
    safety and the interests of licensed firearms holders. The new Authority
    will be best placed to make an objective and independent assessment as to
    whether we continue to allow certain firearms to be licensed and result in
    a more transparent licensing system. In the meantime all persons who
    currently hold licences for 0.22 inch rim fire calibre handguns can apply
    to have those licences renewed.”


    Individual firearms licensing decisions have been and continue to be
    subject to judicial review. The findings of the Courts in relation to the
    law on firearms clearly can have implications for the implementation of
    proposals in this area.Minister Fitzgerald announces changes to Firearms Licensing

    Ends


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭ IrishTarget


    Thanks for heads up.

    Checked http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/si

    Nothing up yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 yubabill1


    FFS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭ turismo2142


    Where did you get the summary from Sparks?

    Still 5 round mag for the pistols? I'd heard that was going to change upwards. So much for sources eh? A change to 6 rounds would make all the difference. Opportunity lost.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Where did you get the summary from Sparks?
    Courtesy call from the DoJ. All the NGBs and other groups had already been notified this morning.
    Still 5 round mag for the pistols? I'd heard that was going to change upwards. So much for sources eh?
    That's often the case, it's why we tend to roll our eyes at them if they can't be quoted.
    A change to 6 rounds would make all the difference. Opportunity lost.
    Nope.
    This was never an opportunity for anything. We were seeing a proposal to crank down on the ratchet by a lot; there was never any realistic hope of fixing broken things. I want to see the actual text first, but it does actually sound like some things managed to get fixed though, which is a huge pleasant surprise to me. Some things are not going to be pleasant reading though, but that's an expected outcome from any new legislation (I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying that if you see a falling rock above you, a sharp pain in your head shortly afterwards shouldn't be surprising).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ gunhappy_ie


    Single licencing authority ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭ BillBen


    At the risk of sounding stupid does that include applications that are before the courts


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Single licencing authority ?

    No, AGS remain the licencing authority, but there will be a non-AGS arbitration route in the event of refusals and it's a move towards a centralised licencing system. Really need to read the docs to get the details right, I'm summarising a phone call so far. Watch this space and all that.
    BillBen wrote: »
    At the risk of sounding stupid does that include applications that are before the courts

    For arbitration? No, that won't be in place for a while, and it's a pre-court step (and optional, you can skip it, but what judge would thank you for wasting time by doing that?)

    For things like the GSG cases? Yes, the SI will be citable there and should short-circuit those cases. I understand there's an AG opinion of some form being released as well (but I may have misheard that one).


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    How long does it normally take for them to release details of the S.I.?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Not very long BC, it's mostly technical publishing stuff I think. It's already signed, it's just publishing now. Later on this evening I'd guess, maybe earlier. The NGBs already have copies, if anyone would like to publish it or send a copy to us to pop up here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ gunhappy_ie


    Taken from country side alliance Ireland on facebook:

    Minister Fitzgerald - on RoI Firearms Issues

    The Minister has advised us of the changes she has decided to implement to the firearms licensing system. The changes will address issues in the short term but also map out the longer term future for a licensing system which balances the rights of those who wish to pursue their interests with public safety, which has to be the paramount consideration.

    The Minister has therefore decided on the following series of measures:-

    The Minister intends to make fundamental long term reforms in this area by proposing legislation for a Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority.

    The Minister has noted the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendations in relation to the establishment of a national firearms control and advisory licensing authority and an independent appeals process in relation to decisions of An Garda Síochána.

    The primary function of the Authority will be to determine, on the basis of an objective assessment of all the issues, with safety of the public being paramount, whether particular forms of firearms may be licensed in the State, whether there should be any limit on the number of such firearms and what safety conditions might properly be applied to their licensing.

    While these will be the basic functions of the Authority the Minister will consult as to the range of functions which could be assigned to the Authority. The legislation, which would take some time to prepare, will be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny by the Joint Oireachtas Committee.

    Individual licensing decisions will continue to be made by members of An Garda Síochána in the light of the determinations made by the Authority but it is intended that the Authority will adjudicate on appeals from decisions by An Garda Síochána. This will offer an alternative to the current system of court appeals.

    Taking account of the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendation in relation to the need to introduce secondary legislation in advance of the renewal of many firearms at this time, the Minister has now signed secondary legislation re-defining what constitutes a non-restricted handgun.

    The purpose of this legislation is to ensure that, while the Minister, of course, cannot interfere with individual licensing decisions, persons who currently hold licenses for handguns will be able to reapply for a license in the current licensing round.

    This legislation will clarify for An Garda Síochána what firearms may be considered by them for licensing. I enclose a copy of the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) (Amendment) Order 2015 for your information.

    The Minister notes the Oireachtas Committee recommendation that 0.22 inch rim fire calibre handguns be further temporarily restricted. The number of licences for these types of handguns will be monitored and legislation will be introduced as a priority, to provide that no new licences will be issued for such handguns, prior to the establishment of the Authority, if there is a significant increase in the number of applications for new certificates or import licence applications in this regard.

    The current arrangements introduced in 2008 whereby no new licences will be issued for centre fire handguns will remain in place.

    It is intended to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the
    licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the establishment and determination of the Authority.

    Legislation will provide for the revocation of any licenses issued between now and the enactment of the legislation and it is intended that anyone applying for licenses of this nature will be informed of that fact.

    The Minister intends asking the Garda Inspectorate to review the administration of firearms licensing by An Garda Síochána, following the establishment and operation of the Firearms and Assessment Authority for a 12 month period.

    The Minister has noted the Joint Oireachtas Committee recommendation that the Garda Inspectorate carry out an independent review of the current firearms licensing regime.

    Given the changes now proposed, it is deemed more appropriate to review the administration of firearms licensing by An Garda Síochána when the new arrangements are in place for a 12 month period.

    It is also intended to re-establish the Firearms Consultative Panel
    to examine general issues of common concern which could include issues such as the establishment of a ballistic record of certain firearms, updated storage conditions for firearms and the reloading of ammunition.

    The Minister has noted the Garda Commissioner's intention to establish a centralised licensing system for restricted firearms, pending the establishment of the Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority which will determine what firearms should be licensable.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    It is also intended to re-establish the Firearms Consultative Panel
    Well thank feck for that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ gunhappy_ie


    Nothing about shotguns restricted or otherwise ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    So what's gone?

    Centrefire semi auto rifles?

    Anything else?


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭ turismo2142


    "The Minister notes the Oireachtas Committee recommendation that 0.22 inch rim fire calibre handguns be further temporarily restricted. The number of licences for these types of handguns will be monitored and legislation will be introduced as a priority, to provide that no new licences will be issued for such handguns, prior to the establishment of the Authority, if there is a significant increase in the number of applications for new certificates or import licence applications in this regard."

    So we may or may not put a temp ban on .22lr pistols depending on whether or not there is a surge in demand? Election = can + kick


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So what's gone?
    Centrefire semi auto rifles?
    Anything else?
    Not yet, but possibly .22lr handguns if ten thousand of us buy new ones tomorrow.

    A full list of everything that's going gets done up by this new civilian licencing body, but that's a while out yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 nastros


    So is reloading possibly on the cards than?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So what's gone?

    Centrefire semi auto rifles?

    Anything else?
    Nope,not gone,tempoarily capped until the authorithy is established and then decides...
    Hmm maybe we should be getting our CVs ready to apply for positions lads...:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Nope,not gone,tempoarily capped until the authorithy is established and then decides...
    Same deal as with the centerfire pistols it seems.
    Hmm maybe we should be getting our CVs ready to apply for positions lads...:)
    I suspect it might be more of a civil service fulltime gig Grizzly :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    BTW this was apprently signed last Tuseday,along with the anti prostitution law and all the rest of the sneaky bits of legislation by Frannie...Would think there is an election soon wouldlnt you?:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    SI (pdf attached):
    STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
    S.I. No. 391 of 2015
    FIREARMS (RESTRICTED FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION)
    (AMENDMENT) ORDER 2015


    I, FRANCES FITZGERALD, Minister for Justice and Equality, in exercise
    of the powers conferred on me by section 2B (inserted by section 29 of the
    Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17
    of 1925) (as adapted by the Justice and Law Reform (Alteration of Name of
    Department and Title of Minister) Order 2011) (S.I. No. 138 of 2011)), hereby order as follows:

    1. This Order may be cited as the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) (Amendment) Order 2015.

    2. This Order comes into operation on 15th September, 2015.

    3. Article 4(2) of the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order
    2008 (S.I. No. 21 of 2008) is amended by the substitution of the following
    subparagraph for subparagraph (e)—

    “(e) the following short firearms where a firearms certificate is sought
    for the purpose of using a firearm for target shooting on the
    premises of a rifle or pistol club or a rifle or pistol shooting range
    authorised under section 4A of the Firearms Act 1925 or at such
    other place as stands authorised under section 2(5) of that Act:
    (i) air-operated firearms designed for use with 4.5 millimetres
    (0.177 inch) calibre ammunition;
    (ii) single shot firearms designed for use with 0.22 inch long rifle
    rim fire percussion ammunition;
    (iii) firearms which are designed for use with 0.22 inch long rifle
    rim fire percussion ammunition and use magazines that have
    been manufactured or modified prior to use so as to
    accommodate no more than five rounds of ammunition”.


    GIVEN under my Official Seal,
    15 September 2015.
    FRANCES FITZGERALD,
    Minister for Justice and Equality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Sparks wrote: »
    Same deal as with the centerfire pistols it seems.

    I suspect it might be more of a civil service fulltime gig Grizzly :)

    Dunno,the CF pistols were a immediate ministerial ban in 08.But then again,tempoary in Ireland can be 35 years.:( So I wouldnt expect this body to be set up for..........[ tumble weed rolls by]........an Irish "in due course"
    Thats what I'm worried about Sparks,considering some "civil servants" hadnt a bulls notion what they were talking about in the witness box in the DC around the country.Wont have be any smarter as civillian administrators of this either.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Um. Actually. Might be awkward to consider .22lr revolvers too closely now...


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭ turismo2142


    Sparks wrote: »
    Um. Actually. Might be awkward to consider .22lr revolvers too closely now...
    You're dead right.

    Clarifies one thing, messes another


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    So mags that have been adapted to only hold 5 rounds are ok then, yes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,429 ✭✭✭ Dr Strange


    Sparks wrote: »
    Um. Actually. Might be awkward to consider .22lr revolvers too closely now...

    Ah crap, just when I planned to start .22 pistol shooting (after using .22 rifles for the last 10 years) :(


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Dunno,the CF pistols were a immediate ministerial ban in 08
    No, they weren't. He told the papers they were banned. What he actually did (mainly because of the intervention of Garrett Byrne) was different.
    Thats what I'm worried about Sparks,considering some "civil servants" hadnt a bulls notion what they were talking about in the witness box in the DC around the country.Wont have be any smarter as civillian administrators of this either.
    It's always a possibility Grizzly, but we haven't seen a single detail yet, so I'm not going to work on an opinion one way or the other just yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭ Melodeon


    Haven't lads been having to butcher their 6 (and more) round .22 revolvers to only hold 5 for a good while now anyway?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So mags that have been adapted to only hold 5 rounds are ok then, yes?

    Explicitly so, yes. I understood that was the direct intent of the change.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Dr Strange wrote: »
    Ah crap, just when I planned to start .22 pistol shooting (after using .22 rifles for the last 10 years) :(

    You can licence a .22lr semi auto pistol if the mag can only hold 5 rounds.


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