BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322064#Comment_118322064

But only after Labour said they'd vote the measures through. So real damage. Harrumph harrumph.

First Name on the Noes is Abbot, Dianne

techman1

the fact that a populist leader like Johnson lost this vote is a warning to other leaders especially our own that ever more restrictions with regard to Covid will not be accepted. Yes it was Tory MPs that voted but they obviously have the pulse of their voters. The government here would be wise to resist anymore restrictions from nphet

L1011

Daily Mirror has pics of a fully catered Christmas party now. Has caused one resignation so far, their recent London mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey, from a political role but not his London assembly seat

Seth Brundle

the fact that a populist leader like Johnson lost this vote is a warning to other leaders especially our own that ever more restrictions with regard to Covid will not be accepted. 

If you compare the Tory bench against the opposition bench, there is a massive difference in the numbers wearing masks. That the Tories were happy to brazenly ignore the rules showed that they have a different mentality towards the virus. I'm not aware of any other government party in Europe that is so defiant towards something that could kill them. I'm many ways it is not surprising that a large percentage of them were against tighter covid controls.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323117#Comment_118323117

You are using Tory MP votes to make a point? The same Tories that overwhelmingly voted for a Brexit deal that they now all admit is terrible? The same that voted to change the rules to try to get Patterson off the hook? The same that are standing behind Johnson over the Xmas party denials?

Whatever reason they decided to revolt, you can be sure it has nothing to do with science or the 'pulse of their voters'.

Opinion polls in the UK suggest that the majority agree with more restrictions.

CPTM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323672#Comment_118323672

Could that not be rephrased to 'Has a 99.9% chance of not killing them'. They're double vaxxed aren't they? Probably got boosters on the sly. They're probably thinking if big Boris can survive it unvaxxed, they can survive it vaccinated.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315743#Comment_118315743

Its not faith in government, it's the outcome of good Governance. There's a very big difference. Governments can be despotic if they govern in a way that is non transparent and panders to their base at the expense of the society at large

The EU structural funds are administered under a set of agreed rules and eligibility criteria. All the member states come together and agree what the criteria for eligibility are, and then members are invited to apply for the funding under the agreed criteria which are then evaluated by independent administrators. It is these structures that prevent abuse. Compare this to the UK's method of handing out regional development funding via ministerial decree and you can see the difference between trusting 'government' over demanding good governance.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319433#Comment_118319433

Johnson has been sacked from multiple jobs (for lying)

Of course, when you're a multi- millionaire Etonion getting sacked for gross misconduct more than once is barely an inconvenience

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323695#Comment_118323695

I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of whether the vaccine works but surely a government party that is standing over 170,000 deaths from this virus should ensure that they are leading by example rather than trying to look like they don't have to follow the rules. Their disregard for the rules is shocking and that so many are opposed to having to show a covid cert is not surprising.

However, what it does show is a lack of leadership and control over the party. Surely the Tory chief whip should have instructed them on how to vote and behanve?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324048#Comment_118324048

Johnson's in a very weak position. Many of the MP's know well that they're on borrowed time so there's nothing he can use to either entice or threaten them. There's no reason for them to toe his line. He's now got the same problems that have bedevilled Labour for nearly two decades, ie a split voting bloc that wants mutually exclusive things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324148#Comment_118324148

They're split on COVID-19 passes; not split forevermore. Even as a supporter of Johnson, I would have voted against these measures, too.

Once the Omicron storm passes this winter, said "split" won't have a reason to exist. Johnson will be applauded for averting as many deaths as possible during the wave, and any talk of Christmas parties will be long forgotten.

All Johnson needs to do between now and then is to avoid any own goals.

Johnson is very far from being in a "very weak position". That appears to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324368#Comment_118324368

Nearly 200,000 people have been killed by this virus. They impose measures while having massive parties of their own.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324419#Comment_118324419

its **** amazing.

it's like there's been a pandemic or something 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323672#Comment_118323672

Tory scum eh?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324434#Comment_118324434

Is there a point here?

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324368#Comment_118324368

Members of the Tory party came out yesterday to say that Johnson has to change, used up 8 of his 9 lives etc. Johnson directly asked for support from his party yesterday, and instead he suffered way more of a revolt that anyone anticipated. Johnson lost the vote yesterday. He needed Labour to save him.

No point having a majority if none of them would vote to support you. Johnson, and the like, prosper when they have that air of invincibility about them. Teflon coating. Johnson is now seen as a leader that can be openly challenged by his party. For that many to openly go against his wishes means that he has lost control.

It might turn out that he is fine, but the main problem Johnson now has is that he is not in control of that. He is completely at the whim of his party, and to external factors. Factors that he doesn't control either. He has no control over Brexit, no control over the next stages of the pandemic.

The other issue Johnson has is that clearly there are people within No 10 that are leaking all of this. They are openly challenging Johnson to deal with it, and so far he is failing terribly to get a handle on it.

Given that Johnson shows scant regard for rules, not wearing a mask at the hospital for example, it is very likely that there is plenty more stuff to come out.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323117#Comment_118323117

What can the Irish voters do about it:? Next election could be over three years away.

Richard Hillman

I don't think the Christmas parties things are genuine voting issues.

If his party is splitting over the passport then he has a big problem. This is fundamental stuff that won't go away.

There is no UKIP/Brexit party to split to vote on, so you might get major voter apathy which will lead to Labour gaining back control.

If Nigel Farage comes back on an anti-restriction platform, he will scare the bejaysis out of him and the party.

I think Boris is astute enough to flip flop on it and reverse the passport stance. But it seems like the pressure is coming from elsewhere.

Podge_irl

The tories are quite clearly not coming out of this unscathed despite bizarre attempts to shrug it off. They are being absolutely hammered in the polls in a way not seen in years.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324684#Comment_118324684

Nigel Farage is already back. Not only has he a show on the new GB News channel but he's running the Reform party as well. They've been quiescent of late but his recent criticism of Johnson suggests he may be more than willing to split at least some of the Tory vote and discontent over things like vaccine passports may help him with this.

Leroy42

The party by themselves are not normally voting issues. But they need to seen in the context of what voters were being demanded to do at the time. Many people lost loved ones, were forced to be alone, missed saying goodbye, missed family events etc etc. To then have that all thrown back in your face while the 'elites' party on is pretty galling.

Had Johnson come out and said that yes, a party took place for people that were working together, thus already in bubbles, working hard to save the country and that while understandable that they needed to let off steam, it was ill advised and he can completely understand the annoyance. But instead he tried to lie about it. Compounding a relatively minor, and probably not a vote changing issue, into one about trust and leadership. Those are both things that do resonate with voters.

The covid passport issue, while it may well go away if the virus is brought back under control, is a problem because of the damage to his authority. Once people start seeing a weal leader then they start to think more about themselves than the party.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322623#Comment_118322623

Well if those are legitimate then it blows Aegir "little bit of cheese and wine" nonsense out if the water

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324456#Comment_118324456

I guess they are spaced apart.

The Tory MPs have almost all stopped wearing masks and tend not to keep apart while doing so. Even the BBC have written about this...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58993387

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324901#Comment_118324901

except that I never said that and those aren't even pictures of Downing Street.

two out of two wrong. pretty bad even by your usually low standards.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325304#Comment_118325304

You were most certainly trying to put it out there that the parties were just thrown together gatherings that were put together last minute.

You were talking about the no.10 party though and this is Tory HQ so my apologies I stand corrected there.

Interesting analysis by Nigel Farage just released on "Can Boris Survive?".

One of the points that Farage argues is that yesterday's HoC votes were effectively a vote of confidence in Boris Johnson and how he is at the beginning of the end of his premiership. He also mentions the North Shropshire by-election (the by-election triggered by the resignation of Owen Paterson) tomorrow and, if the Tory's lose that, then that would be the point that sees significant voices emerge to demand resignation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baP9z2cdY4I

ancapailldorcha

By-elections are like the European elections back when the UK was in the EU. Voters just don't really take them seriously enough for them to serve as any sort of barometer. They're happy to kick the government in the teeth in such instances but will return to the fold promptly for the next general election.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323908#Comment_118323908

This also baffles me. We all know that politicians have been known to lie but even amongst other politicians BJ is known as someone with a weak grasp of reality. Literally nothing he says about Brexit is trusted by the Europeans or Americans. He was also sacked twice for lying.

Yet his supporters still believe him. At this point British elections are like an IQ test.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325896#Comment_118325896

A vote for the Conservative Party is more than just a vote for Boris Johnson; it's the machine itself and the manifesto pledges that came with it.

It's also a vote against the Labour Party, and the worldview they wish to embark upon.

To call it an IQ test is remarkably supercilious.

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325516#Comment_118325516

'Interesting analysis by Nigel Farage' is surely an oxymoron?