BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336307#Comment_118336307

Yes, it's a deflection, the Tories will be 19 years in power at the next election and need a record level swing against to be booted out.

24 years straight is likely.

Some deflection alright.

I'm deflecting from the awesome success that is the Labour party when obviously it is the electorate who have been found wanting.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336428#Comment_118336428

It shows how woeful and unelectable the Labour party remain that this shi7show is still likely to be the next Govt.

How do you know the Labour party remain this unelectable. IT doesn't matter a damn that Tories will have been in for 14 years (not 19) that says nothing about the current electability of this Labour setup.

If "Tories have been in for 19 years do Labour are crap" is the answer to everything then we might as well give up debates altogether.

Capt'n Midnight

Tory MP Sir Roger Gale said the prime minister was on "last orders". "One more strike and he's out,"

Conservative Party chairman Oliver Dowden said: "I don't think this amounts to a sea-change."

So looks like Boris will be given another chance.

Which is a shame because Cliff Richard# could do with a Christmas No. 1

"Carrie doesn't live here anymore, Carrie used to room on the second floor..."

#He is a citizen of Barbados and was born and spent over seven years in India so could be chucked out of the UK tomorrow.

JupiterKid

It’s not looking good for bumbling buffoon Boris, and rightly so.

One or two more gaffes and he’s a goner. Labour however are in huge disarray still and the damage Jeremy Corbyn, one of the worst party leaders ever who singularly failed to use the Brexit situation to his party’s gain and is too left-wing for most of the electorate, did to the party was pretty immense.

I would like to see the Lib Dems go from strength to strength. The effective two party system and FPTP has not served the UK well in the 21st Century.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337892#Comment_118337892

The Lib Dems going from strength to strength didn't exactly do the country much good the last time. Problem is that unlike Labour in Ireland the Lib Dems won't go into government with UK Labour so can only slow and not stop the Tories or ever be true kingmaker's

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337892#Comment_118337892

I think he's entered terminal decline now. Much hinges on how Christmas pans out for many people but the corruption, venality and disdain he and others in government have shown for the people of this country won't be forgotten. Even if it transpires that no further measures beyond the vaccine passports are needed to manage Omicron, there's nothing on the horizon but more quagmires, namely covid restrictions and issues stemming from Brexit.

BonnieSituation

His interview with Sam Coates on Sky was a disaster.

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1471827747240566785?s=20

Hopefully this is the end...

Kermit.de.frog

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y2gvtKWtZBw

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337933#Comment_118337933

In a bad election the Lib Dems only produce DUP numbers. And the DUP can be bought.

The SNP are better placed to be kingmakers. But only for the ultimate prize. Which BTW would produce a Tory majority for the next election or two unless Labour get there first and introduce PR. And if Scotland go there's £500m a week that could be spent on the NHS from the NI subvention. That's a lot of PPE contracts.

What has Boris got to lose ?

Are party members looking for Boris to behave instead of looking for his head ? A week is a long time in politics and it looks Boris will continue through the pantomime season.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342845#Comment_118342845

SNP will never go into a coalition with the Tories in the same way LD won't go in with Labour. It's too toxic to their voters even if it meant indyref 2

thomasj

Two stories tonight

Frost the chief Brexit negotiator has resigned , and that Tory WhatsApp chat leaked

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016?t=5IMXmle-IReQPEW6VWLoiA&s=19

Kermit.de.frog

Not satire apparently, it's real.

mariaalice

Is Lord Frost one of the nuts that believe the UK can be Singapore and keeps repeting.. Low tax, light touch over and over again a true believer or is he just a cynical rat abandoning a sinking ship.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342861#Comment_118342861

"But only for the ultimate prize." I didn't mean just a referendum.

It would be inconceivable after the Tories completely undermined the Alternative Vote , Indyref, and Brexit referendums.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345006#Comment_118345006

Resignation of Brexit minister led to fevered online reaction – and blue on blue fire in a Tory chat group .. as revealed by Sky News’s Sam Coates.

“Lord Frost is one of the most disciplined, focused, and strategic individuals I have ever met. A formidable brain but also a leader who, with Oliver Lewis, brought together talented officials to deliver the impossible. He has nerves of steel and somehow gave us faith to wait.”

• Nikki da Costa

"Mr Lely, I desire you would use all your skill to paint my picture truly like me, and not flatter me at all; but remark all these roughnesses, pimples, warts and everything as you see me, otherwise I will never pay a farthing for it."

• attributed to Oliver Cromwell

Toeuptony

Get your butter (and jam / marmalade) at the ready! More damning evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/19/boris-johnson-and-staff-pictured-with-wine-in-downing-street-garden-in-may-2020

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348728#Comment_118348728

All these parties require a decent amount of logistics and having worked in hospitality in London I know full well that they are 90% staffed by people on minimum wage who hate the Tories.

Colossal amounts of hubris to thing they won't be leaked or the paper trail exposed

Annasopra

Appointing Liz Truss to negotiate Brexit may just be a master stroke. Takes her away from thinking about the leadership. If it goes well he can claim the credit. If it goes belly up he can blame her.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363981#Comment_118363981

If she had brains she could quit close to leadership contest (local elections are in May) and blame Boris for tying her hands. The trick is to be vague enough to convince the ERG that she could have been more anti-EU while letting everyone else think she was forced to be anti-EU.

Or she ask the EU for a concession on the QT and publicly makes lots of noise and bluster about driving a hard deal, later on signing whatever the EU give hear and announce the great deal on "blue cheese". Near zero effort on her part as the EU will come up with some facing saving gesture and that gives her loads of time to get ready. - And if it goes pear shaped resign and blame Boris.

If she makes it through the rounds the general members of the party may easily vote her in.

Then again ConservativeHome has stuff like Johnson needs to cede power to a real deputy. Step forward, Ruth Davidson so it could be interesting.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363981#Comment_118363981

There is no negotiating to be done really. The deal is signed

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118364254#Comment_118364254

But they can still ask for clarifications and clarifications of the clarifications, just like the WA

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363981#Comment_118363981

This analysis assumes that Johnson's problems stem from other people challenging him for the leadership so that, if he can neutralise the challenger, he'll be safe.

This may be what Johnson thinks, but it's a mistake. Johnson's problem isn't that other people are seeking to take his place. Johnson's problem is that he is crap at his job. It's only because he's crap at his job that people who themselves are no great shakes, like Truss, are seen as plausible challengers.

Johnson can bury Truss at a crossroads with a stake through her heart and he'll still be crap at his job. And the Tory party will still have plenty of people who are no great shakes themselves who will seek to take his place.

Johnson's net disapproval rating is 48%. He even has a net disapproval rating among Tory voters - which is to say, most Tory voters think he's a crap leader. The Brexit magic is gone, and it's not coming back. Seriously, his problem is not that Truss is getting uppity.

JupiterKid

I actually dreamt that Her Majesty The Queen herself will swing the axe that beheads Boris in February 2022 at the Tower Of London.

The public execution will be televised globally on all major networks. Coldplay will be the main music act.

Esel

^ You OK, hun?

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1476140358711009281

johnson.jpg

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388603#Comment_118388603

In fairness, what politician doesn't act by the same metric?

The idea that Boris Johnson is some exception to the rule is absurd.

AllForIt

Boris might be toast, but the Conservative government is not toast.

All this stuff about wallpaper, breaking Covid rules, odd speeches referencing to Peppa Pig, has noting to do with why some sections of his party want to get rid of him.

It's more his stance on climate change, not doing anything to reduce the numbers of immigrants crossing the channel, and all that right wing stuff. In other words, he's not right wing enough on these issues.

The funny thing is Labour don't really want him gone. Because if he is ousted with someone who comes across more serious a politician, they will loose their primary angle of attack, which is "Boris the buffoon".

Whatever happens I think Labour are screwed for the foreseeable future. They are a total mess, don't have a coherent message, and all their top shadow MP's have no gravitas about them at all. Even Dominic Raab comes across more competent than that Angela Rayner. Pick the least worst kind of thing.

farmerval

I think the problem is, Boris having been brought to power by the hard right in the current Tory party, they now seem to have a veto on all policy.

The bigger issue is they are out of step with the electorate. As more issues from Brexit affect voters on the ground it's looking like less and less of a good idea. The ERG wing have ruled out further covid restrictions rendering Boris a leader in name only. In a time of crises the leader disappears. While this plays well with many in the Parliamentary party it will leak support with the wider public. Who wants a leader that cannot lead? Not alone can Boris not introduce extra covid restrictions he is left looking completely impotent. He's exactly where Theresa May ended, with his help ironically.

The big issue for Labour will be to introduce a conversation around coalition with the Lib Dems, go on a policy of a joint approach of together we can prevent a Tory majority. The Lib Dems can hurt the Tories in areas that Labour cannot. Finding a way to make that happen is the big issue.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389042#Comment_118389042

The bigger issue is they are out of step with the electorate. As more issues from Brexit affect voters on the ground it's looking like less and less of a good idea 

No I don't think this is right. There isn't some Brexiteers suddenly thinking they were wrong so soon. They want to see this play out for years before they will be proved wrong.

For some people the ending of freedom of movement will always be a positive, despite economic decline as a result.

And I kinda get the preservation of British culture as an argument for a multicultural European one. Some people thing it's important, some don't and some want to destroy it. Some people think multiculturalism is the way to go. I don't get it myself, it seems to cause more problems than it's worth. I really don't see the overall benefit in a societal sense.

Time will tell if Brexit was a wrong move, but it's going to take a lot of time before there is consensuses on that.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388881#Comment_118388881

Both sides...

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389248#Comment_118389248

..

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388882#Comment_118388882

A politicians chief concern is getting re-elected and Johnson is now a threat to that happening for a large number of Tory MP's. That's why he is "toast", it has nothing to do with climate change or people crossing the channel. The stories that broke through to the public were the Owen Paterson affair, quickly followed by the parties. That's why they tanked in the polls, but the hits are going to keep on coming because this government has been too incompetent and too corrupt for them not to.

Tony EH

@Ahwell A politicians chief concern is getting re-elected

That's the problem with politics these days.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388882#Comment_118388882

If you think Labour are screwed now wait until the Scots get independence. Because that's 50+ anti Tory MPs gone forever. Handing over Scotland would keep the Tories in control in the rest of the UK for another generation unless they get rid of FPTP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389042#Comment_118389042

Until the DUP implosion the Lib Dems were on course to being the fifth party in a two party system. All of the unionists are a comparable bloc and can bought or threatened (UI ?) more easily.

What wouldn't Boris sacrifice to stay in power ? More importantly given the UK's lack of a written constitution what could he do to cling to power ?

farmerval

It's not what seats the Lib Dems could win, more what seats they can deny the Tories, in true blue seats they would be the most likely recipients for middle of the road Tory supporters. I am assuming that not all Tory supporters have moved to being National Front supporters. The base support for a "broad church" Tory party surely hasn't completely disappeared.

Loads of Tory supporters will not vote Labour.

Right now, the ERG or whatever three letter acronym they're using are making Boris look like a weak useless leader. He couldn't make any appearances over Xmas because he knew he couldn't talk about extra Covid measures because his own party won't back him.

If it turns out no further restrictions was the right move, he will be even more powerless, the fanatics will dictate all policy. Forget any new meaningful green policies, Net Zero will not be on any agenda, already the right and the Tory press are declaring that NET Zero will cost too much.

Possibly I am Naïve but I don't believe that all Tory supporters want to see migrants drowning in the Channel. I think right now the lunatics are running the asylum. I hope the electorate will react accordingly.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391086#Comment_118391086

Okay, I'm only giving my read on this, I'm not taking sides particularly. I've no skin in the game here.

Personally despite all the controversies I don't feel Boris is as badly damaged as the media makes out. Of course there are some quite vocal within the Tory's who are worried about 'the bad look' of what's gone on recently, but I just don't sense that has filtered down down to the general public and I still think Boris is a draw. I can't but help think if they get rid of him the Tory's might very well go into decline like they did when they ousted Maggie no matter who replaces him.

I think Boris's biggest problem is management of Covid. It's just one of those thinks where you can't win no matter what you do.

I totally agree the way Boris managed the Patterson affair was bad. But I think he just managed it very badly rather than we're seeing all out corruption here. I think Majors government was much worse in that department not that that was Majors fault either.

As far as Brexit is concerned, I think Boris has a duty to be change for the next few years as it pans out and I think his government have a duty to keep him in since the were so gung ho behind him on this from the beginning. It's what the public expected that gave him the majority he was.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391480#Comment_118391480

If you think Labour are screwed now wait until the Scots get independence. Because that's 50+ anti Tory MPs gone forever. Handing over Scotland would keep the Tories in control in the rest of the UK for another generation unless they get rid of FPTP.

I never thought of that, but the Tory's are vehemently anti Scottish independence. I don't sense it's going to happen anyway myself. There's a lot of bluster about this but I think that's all it is. It not like you have people marching in the streets demanding Independence which you'd expect to see if there was a possibility of that actually happening.

As far as FPTP is concerned, you have to accept there are people who think it's the best system and they don't agree with PR. I don't either because it gets tiny parties into government potentially and I don't think that's right either. Maybe there is some compromise on this but haven't heard one suggested.

O'Neill

.

it takes 2 2 tango

No

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394034#Comment_118394034

So to sum it up, he is doing a terrible job but bless him, he's doing his best!

Everything he touches turn to crap, he hasn't delivered on anything. The rebellion was the ERG telling him to get back in his box, and Frost resignation is the starting pistol for the heave.

Frost didn't do that on a whim.

Net zero is dead, levelling up is dead. The chancellor has already refused them. Covid is out of control.

No matter what happens Johnson loses. Deaths go up and NHS overwhelmed, why did he not take action sooner? It all calms down, the rebels were right and Johnson loses any remaining credibility he retains.

Even Brexit, his big thing, is now out of his hands. If a new arrangement is made, Truss will get all the plaudits, continues to cause issues, well it was Johnson that agreed the deal.

Every direction he looks he has no options. He is now there at the leisure of the ERG.

A leader of nothing.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394209#Comment_118394209

So to sum it up, he is doing a terrible job but bless him, he's doing his best!

I never put it like that. Some old biddy was interviewed on either BBC or Sky and said 'he's doing this best' (in relation to Covid) which went viral and has been used ever since by people who despise Boris as if that's the attitude everyone has who voted for him. It's wearing a bit thin at this stage. Personally I think it's bit nasty to use that 90 year old's comment as a weapon.

I don't think cancelling Cheltenham (remember that) would have made much difference overall. So all this taking action sooner is not one I personally think was a catastrophic error. Boris's policy on restrictions are clearly to make them as light as possible and for people like me who aren't obese or in a high risk category then why wouldn't one legitimately agree with that policy. I'm a single guy myself and my social life has been screwed with restrictions when the restriction aren't there to protect me at all. I'm not obese or overweight and that's no accident, I work at it. So what do I get for my personal responsibility. Nothing. As locked down as everyone else. The UK's obesity levels have risen since Covid, stats released recently. So all those people who scoff at people who want more freedoms, admonition those for not taking a vaccine when they don't need it, haven't done a single thing themselves to take personal responsibly for overloading the national health service with their underlying conditions, like that piggy Piers Morgan and Andrew Neil. At least Boris admitted he was in trouble for being 'too fat'. His words.

If there is anything I would admonish the Tory government for is for doing nothing to combat the UK's obesity problem. Well it's a bit late now and it's not like Labour ever touched it ether. That's what gets me about all the focus on Climate change, if you can't fix the obesity problem then I don't see how you can expect to get everyone to 'do their bit' for climate change when we can't even get them to do anything for their own personal health, that results in overloading the health services, which is why it can't cope, and we get lockdowns to protect it.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398100#Comment_118398100

Public health is only as strong as it’s weakest link. The fact that you are not obese ( congratulations btw) is immaterial. If you want a life of no restrictions in the midst of a pandemic then find a desert island. If you want to live in the populated world and enjoy the amenities thereof then restrictions are the reality.

Remember as well you will be old someday yourself through no fault of your own. Age is the biggest factor in this pandemic. They did not vaccinate the obese first.

ancapailldorcha

In a pandemic, timing is everything. Ditching several COBRA meetings to go skiing, permitting major sporting events like Cheltenham and Liverpool v Athletico Madrid to go ahead and boasting about shaking hands with covid patients was just cowardice and demagoguery. The man has never done a day's work in his life and seems only interested in producing illegitimate children. The man hasn't a single real achievement to his name. Even winning big in 2019 was only possible because of a splintered Labour vote and the worst opposition leader for decades. All he's done is the bare minimum when forced to do so by necessity, stoke culture wars and foster corruption. Easily the worst prime minister since I moved here.

cj maxx

I saw something interesting on Google that I suggests he's toast. A song called Boris Jonston is a c@nt is riding pretty high in the uk charts

alchemist33

That song was there this time last year too, but unfortunately wasn't a harbinger of his doom then.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/JohnOBrennan2/status/1481025971654438912

ancapailldorcha

Yeah, he's done. If not now then within months. This hasn't gone away, it's just been festering. The tumour needs cutting out at this stage before it infects the rest of the party.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459427#Comment_118459427

You said this before, and the story went away.

The same will happen this time. Boris has a way of shrugging these stories off his back. The media and Labour will have a field day and, in a couple of days from now, something else will take over and the story will be forgotten.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460092#Comment_118460092

This is the same story; just a different incident of it. That is the exact opposite of "the story went away" - its the story continuing to grow and going absolutely nowhere.