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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You may claim that, but it doesn't make it so.

    Personally speaking, and I'm well aware that I'm a minority on this, I would like to see a Johnsonian Era in British politics - in exactly the same way that Thatcher became renowned for her era in politics.

    Johnson certainly has the charisma to carry this out. Though perhaps he should act less hastily in some cases, and not be prone to casual errors of judgment.

    I see this Christmas party saga as an unnecessary drama, and I hope that it resolves because, if Johnson isn't at the helm, there are precious few similarly charismatic leaders to carry the Conservatives into the next General Election against the political equivalent of a breeze block, Sir Keir Starmer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭farmerval


    The Tories have no intention of Boris leading them into the next election, I suspect they never had. They know Boris better than anyone else, they know how the more exposure the public get to Boris the less they will be impressed no mind to say the likelihood that something daft from his background could sink him at the wrong time.

    I believe Boris was due to be shunted aside 12 to 18 months before the next election to allow a new leader, preferably one without the stink of any negatives from brexit off them to lead into the next election.

    Liz Truss or whoever will be the first stalking horse, someone that won't categorically deny they are interested in the top job. This will get the narrative out there that a heave is coming. I suspect Boris will cling on into mid '22 and then will be knifed in the back.

    Funnily I think the parties leaks etc is more a dig back at Boris' wife from the Cummins rump. This looks like revenge from Cummins on the woman who got him and the team leave press crew ejected from Downing street. Allegra Stratton was Carrie's pal and choice for PR Spokesperson. The fiasco that's been the response to the recent scandals show how dysfunctional the p.r. and press office in Number 10 is. Although if Boris' advisor is the one in the spotlight it might explain why deny deny deny is the mantra. It was also interesting that Cummins big pal Laura Kunnesberg that revealed his identity as handing out awards at the party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I think Liz needs to read The Wealth of Nations by Smith so she can learn what comparative advantage is or else ask a secondary school kid studying economics. She really is a fine example of how it is possible to fail upwards in politics, its actually astonishing that someone of such low caliber is the Foreign Minister.

    In any case I cant see her being a contender to replace Boris, Sunak, Javid and Gove are all ahead of her in that queue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If anyone, Sunak is the most capable - articulate, smart, proven track record, and can connect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,422 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why?

    Which Johnstonian policy do you think deserves a chance to succeed?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm a big believer that strong countries should have leaders with "qualities" that include narcissism, charisma, and psychopathy.

    Think of the wet dishcloth, Theresa May. She is precisely the opposite of all three qualities.

    Narcissistic psychopaths tend to follow what the majority wants - what's called "populist". They do it because they want to be liked, too; a kind of political symbiosis.

    Wet dishcloths, like Theresa May, never achieve anything. They come and go like a bad cold.

    The above three qualities are irrelevant if you're a non-country such as New Zealand or Belgium. All you need to do is sort of show that you have a heart, then you'll succeed.

    Starmer has neither of these three qualities and so he'll never succeed. Tony Blair had a whiff of all three, and he worked reasonably effectively. Anyway, you get the gist - it's the personality that delivers what the majority want, rather than the policies they claim to have come up with.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You didn't answer the question, presumably because you know Johnson has no redeeming qualities or positive qualities of any kind.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I did.

    I answered that it's not Johnson who provides policy, but that it's policies widely held by the public that he latches onto.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The end is night for Johnson. One of multiple illegal gatherings at No 10 it seems.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No. You've just followed your proclivity for fawning over individuals with no virtue. Johnson has no ideology, no capacity to work and no interest in anything except producing illegitimate children.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,422 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You think that strong countries should have psychopathic leaders?

    ooookaay

    You then say that these types of leaders will do what the 'Majority wants'

    Why do you believe this? Narcissists and psychopaths do exactly what they think benefits them personally, and they manipulate others to act in their interests.

    I find your faith in the leadership skills of psychopaths to be quite unsettling



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't mean "psychopath" in the commonly believed "mass murder", Hollywood view - but rather in the clinical sense of someone who, yes, acts in their own interests, but who knows what to do to achieve that (i.e. populism).

    But powerful countries will always attract leaders with what are called psychopathic qualities.

    To boil it down, would we rather have Tony Blair or Theresa May in power?





  • Yep, I like a human being with a fair chunk of altruism to be my country’s leader tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,422 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I didn't think you meant it in the mass murderer sense either. Psychopaths are not always violent, but a common trait is that they are very good at manipulating others to get them to do what they want them to do to further their own personal interests

    Psychopathic leaders will manipulate public interests to further their own private interests if those interests are not exactly aligned.

    The problem with the UK, is that the interests of the public, and the interests of the ruling classes are very far from aligned. And to remain as prime minister, a psychopath doesn't need majority support, they need the support of a small number of very influential people, who can be brought onside by pandering to those interests.

    We have seen in the Johnson administration, that he is fully prepared to lie to everyone constantly, to use public resources to bolster those lies, and to sacrifice millions of people's livelihoods as long as he can maintain just enough support to maintain his access to power.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Of course lying is common in the Johnson Administration.

    But that's the point I'm making. It wouldn't make a difference who is in charge, they all lie - to some degree or other, to maintain power.

    Once we accept that deception, psychopathy, and narcissism are unavoidable factors in the politics of large and important countries, we have to decide who is the least worst option.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,828 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Even here, this would be resigning material. The days when we looked at the UK as somewhre where politicians resigned compared to brazening it out here are long since over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭farmerval


    One of the defining characteristics of Psychopath's is their ability to convince people that they need that their goals are aligned, that they are committed to achieving the same things, that they're in this together. Then when a different goal appears they drop their former partners without a backward glance.

    They seek out and flatter those they can use for their own benefit. The problems accumulate as they continually leave the people that believed they were partner with behind, leaving broken promises and betrayed former colleagues behind.

    I believe Johnson is part psychopath and part psychopathic liar all wrapped up in an extremely callous and calculating person.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've actually been on the receiving end of quite a lot of that, so I can certainly relate.

    But we also cannot deny that these kinds of psychopathic traits, which Johnson and others undeniably possess, won't disappear if Johnson is to go.

    It's part of the political system of large countries that those with these kinds of trait rise to the top - irrespective of whether we're talking Left or Right.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More controversy about Boris now, looks like he was ran a quiz last year in 10 Downing Street. I wonder will any of this stick.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I think it will. His own backbenchers seem quite keen on this bloated tumour being excised as they know their chances at the next election are being trashed on a near daily basis now.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    I think you would have fit in well back in the Europe of the 30s...

    Populism is a sham, plain and simple. We have extremely rich, narcissistic individuals claiming the know what's best for the 'working class'.

    In a democracy the government is meant to represent the people not the leader ruling like a king.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,298 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    People like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson don't care. They don't have to care. They don't reside in the same world as anybody on this thread. They don't even reside in the same world as the vast majority of their "subjects".

    We're talking about someone that's been groomed for power in some form or another since he was at Eton. While perhaps not automatically destined for the highest office in the land, he's nevertheless an Oxbridge educated article that was always assumed a political position of some description, completely irrespective of his ability. So his outlook on life is vastly different to the greater percentage of people both in Britain and outside of it.

    He found himself as PM due to circumstances, more than likely, but it's doubtful that he really gives that much of a crap about the role. But he doesn't have to and if he was deposed in the morning, he'd just retreat into whatever shade of political role he can and continue on as normal regardless of the shambles that his dog and pony show premiership resulted in.

    It's all just an amusing game to people like Johnson, because there's nothing riding on it for him to be truly worried about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,298 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Labour is dead. Destroyed by infighting weak stances. Kier Starmer is a bloody joke.

    There is also a very real reluctance to be responsible to try and deliver a Tory Brexit too and I cannot really blame them for that. The Tories dragged the country into the disaster that is Brexit and they didn't have the first clue on how to plan it out, resulting in the absolute shambles that we see today. Frankly, I'd be loath myself to step into the shoes that's responsible to try and dig the country out of that situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    One of the biggest Borisisms that always stuck in my craw is "levelling up". Heavens, there's even a Secretary of State for Levelling Up (yes that's their title).

    On initial inspection, it appears to be about building stuff in places that don't nice have nice stuff. A kind of low-resolution regional development strategy. What's not to like? So why not just call it regional development like any sane person would?

    Aha, that's the beauty of levelling up, it's regional development without 'tall poppy syndrome' (Boris' words). Basically, it's a patronising 'helping hand' to the provinces to outwardly signal they give a hoot about places that have been suffering economically since Thatcher, but London and the Home Counties won't be handing over any more loot than they have to. Kind of like slippery arguments against higher income tax on billionaires writ large.

    Studies have shown that besides the blue riband projects like HS2, the 'levelling up' funds have been going disproportionately to Tory-controlled constituencies and electoral swing constituencies, and in-particular, vulnerable Lib Dem seats that Tories are targetting are getting 3 times the amount of funding per head than (typically poorer) safe Labour-held constituencies.

    Cynical, pork barrel, self-dealing, and grotty. And this is central to Boris' platform btw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,082 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The difference between the EU's RDF and "leveling up" is RDF actually went to the poorest areas of the UK and not to the areas that won local parties the most votes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yet it has been completely forgotten.

    Boris will survive this sideshow.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    they aren't though. that's just more "Angry Leftie bullshit".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    lots of anger in this thread.

    Levelling up is what people want to see, as opposed to "Tax the rich and give it to the poor" ideology the opposition offer.

    When I say what the opposition offer, we don't actually know what they offer, because all we hear is the angry leftie gob shite that is their deputy leader.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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