Is Dave Chappelle's new special "The Closer" really transphobic?

Shield

No.

The usual wokerazzi whingebags would have you believe it is, but the audience loved it, Google reviews currently stand at 95% positive, Rotten Tomatoes currently stand at 82%. Yes, he makes jokes about trans people, but Dave Chappelle has joked about everyone and anyone in his body of work over the decades.

If you don't like him, don't watch him, but don't expect any special treatment from comics just because you're in a minority group. Life is much better if you learn to laugh at yourself.

The Closer is on Netflix. Highly recommended.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212179/is-dave-chappelles-new-special-the-closer-really-transphobic

The trouble is the media, and pushing Chappelle saying "I'm Team TERF" in their tweets/headlines meaning that's all people see and therefore claim Chappelle is transphobic. That quote is removed from the context of everything else Chappelle says, and is what people will focus on without having watched the special, or watch it having already seen the "I'm Team TERF" quote and therefore go in prejudiced against it from the start.

That said, I don't think the special was that good. It was fairly bland for the most part, and I don't think he got across most of the points he was trying to make well enough, certainly not to his usual standard. Some of his previous Netflix specials were much better.

He knew what he was doing.

Whipping up some free publicity from a group of people who have diluted "phobe" to a ridiculous level.

He's a "POC" so he has some protection too.

Clever tactic.

Dyr

Its not particularly funny by his standards but its worth watching.

I think Chapelle is smart enough to see which way the wind is blowing now

cocotheclown

Trans people always want people to be tolerant yet show no tolerance themselves.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991907#Comment_117991907

What sort of intolerance are you accusing them of?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991907#Comment_117991907

I don't think that's necessarily true.

In my experience, it's the people who aren't trans but want to be SEEN as a "trans-ally" are the ones who are the intolerant ones. Any trans person I have met just want to get on with their lives.

I think the people who claim to be "trans-advocates" are unaware that they are doing anything except stoking division.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991945#Comment_117991945

True. They often do more harm than good. Not that they actually care, of course. They just want to pat themselves on the back.

Brucie Bonus

This is the first I've seen of any blowback, or is it reverse blowback? Some people just want to be outraged I guess.

ceadaoin.

I saw him live a few months back and there was way more stuff that wasn't in this special that would be deemed offensive lol. Luckily all phones and devices were locked away for the show.

I think he is pretty much uncancelable though, and he gives zero **** ,so good luck to the keyboard warriors trying that.

el Fenomeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991892#Comment_117991892

I did think this bit was very, very funny when was talking about how the LGBTQ community were mad at him.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TT8-5KBInls

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994688#Comment_117994688

It's a genius way of highlighting the recent molestation of the English language.

"Careful, Dave. They after you"

"One they, or many theys?"

mcmoustache

It's a tough call. I'm not sure how to score this. Chapelle's a black yank which gives him something like +5 in historical oppression points but, he's also a man which carries +4 in privilege points and +2 in historical blame points although the historical blame has a -50% modifier due to the blackness nerf. He's also cis and straight which adds +4 privilege points although this buff doesn't fully stack due to his blackness which is currently at around 70% and is subject to change. His humour increases his rhetoric by 10 flat points which directly defends and sometimes nullifies outrage points from opponents. How these scores play out, I have no idea. In fact, I'm more confused now than when I started posting.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996088#Comment_117996088

I've not seen it or his last few specials tbh, so zero opinion one way or other, but I do wonder how many whether slagging or defending him have actually watched it in full and are just posturing online for likes.

silverharp

you could view it 2 ways punching down/pushback or Trans have arrived so welcome to the party, enjoy the mosh pit with the rest of society

c montgomery

It's not trans phobic and it's also not very good

His worst special in my opinion but maybe you need to have more exposure to American life to find it relevant

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996883#Comment_117996883

I’m all for equality, but in every sense. That includes no special protection from ridicule by comedians for anyone.

Was it misogynistic when Jimmy Kimmel led the Comedy Central Roast of Pamela Anderson? Likewise, was it racist when Jeff Ross laid into Flavor Flav during that roast? Either of those roastees could have easily taken to social media after being roasted and whinged that it was veiled hatred disguised as comedy, but they didn’t. You are right @silverharp when you say “welcome to the party” because everyone has a place in society, everyone gets a seat at the table, and everyone gets slagged off sooner or later. It’s how it is and how it should be.

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991944#Comment_117991944

Gluten

Fandymo

I thought it was quite funny.

archfi

Watched it last night. Loved it.

He's a very clever man and a master of his craft (as he says himself!)

Anything and everything is transphobic these days so I love the overwhelming meh reaction to the hysterical squeakers.

I particularly enjoyed the 'Space Jews' thread in the show. Very clever and importantly, very funny.

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991944#Comment_117991944

I think the intolerance is in the way they went after his friend Dapne and others like JK Rowling the whole cancel culture but that's not just a trans thing, the point I took form the show was people are people and there's plenty of C**ts right now in the trans movement, that's not because they are trans but because they are c**ts. It's like people can't joke about trans? why? I've had 2 family members murdered and know 3 people that have been raped! I still laugh at jokes.

Why should the trans community be any different to anyone else? most of us have chips on our shoulder but at times it's like some carry a whole field and think they're the 1st to do so.

briany

He's an absolutely brilliant comedian, I think, and it wasn't that I found his transgender material offensive, having no skin in that game, but did find it disappointing that he stayed on the one subject for most of the special and not always of a mind to make it as funny as possible but to preach on it. I'll always remember his bit about heroin in Ohio and contrasting the treatment of the issue with how blacks were seen during the crack epidemic, but doing so in a hysterical way, "Just say NO! What's so hard about that? (**** eating grin)". He could have addressed the transgender thing in a tight 10 minutes and moved on to many other things that needed his comedic opinion, so in that sense the special was a bit of a missed opportunity.

Gatling

The same people who want him cancelled were crying about saying women have cervixes is somehow transphobic 😂😂😂

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005185#Comment_118005185

The interesting part is that in the first part of his previous special, he made some jokes about the trans topic. He got some letters/emails of outrage, so he said sorry in the second part. He must of dealt with a serious amount of bullshit since then to go back into that field after saying sorry.

silverharp

You know something is good when the critics hate it but the audience love it. You know if ti was Amy Schumer and full of queef jokes the scores would be reversed

https://twitter.com/kshahrooz/status/1447536072448221193

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005185#Comment_118005185

Ah yes, billionaire JK Rowling has been cancelled! in what way exactly has she been cancelled and her ability to be heard been removed? Being held accountable for spouting sh1te isn`t being cancelled.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006067#Comment_118006067

You are purposely missing the point. If Rowling gets cancelled, anyone that holds her views are cancelled by proxy.

What **** did she spout? What was particularly egregious to you? What should she be accountable for?

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006127#Comment_118006127

i asked how she had been cancelled. Please provide some evidence of this. (being criticized is not being cancelled)

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006067#Comment_118006067

People are allowed views & you don't have to friggin agree with them but basic facts like biology hold no matter what, go deal with it.

What does it matter if someone is a billionaire? how does that affect anything? why is it shite? because you don't agree? shall we talk how stupid it was Maya Forstater lost her job?

So is biology shite now? ffs

"Dress however you please.

Call yourself whatever you like.

Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.

Live your best life in peace and security.

But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real? "

The twatter mafia tried to cancel her as far as I can see, if not what were "they " attempting?

ceadaoin.

Don't forget the egregious crime of saying that the word for "people who menstruate" is "women"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006189#Comment_118006189

Oh right. I tell you what, type "jk Rowling" and "cancelled" into Google and you'll get your answer.

Plenty of examples there for you.

Are you really going to attempt to argue this point?

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006543#Comment_118006543

Forstater was not a simple case of someone tweeting something innocuous in passing, it involved months of campaigning to take away the rights that trans women have today for protection against the misogynistic sexism and sexual violence they face for being women, and a refusal to respect trans people for who they are. This was an attempt to create a false dichotomy between supporting trans rights and just agreeing with the entire field of biology. The position that she takes isn’t the “belief that sex is determined by biology”, it is the the belief that everyone is put into box based on their genitals at birth: girl or boy, and that that is what they are for the rest of their lives. This is false and is not supported by science — biology is far more nuanced and complicated than that. Trans people, intersex people, doctors, experts and feminists aren’t arguing that sex isn’t real, they are arguing the opposite: that in reality it isn’t black and white.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006587#Comment_118006587

I asked you to provide an example as you are claiming that she has been cancelled. Im not going to do the work for you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006621#Comment_118006621

Ok sweetheart, I'll say again what I previously said (and what prompted you to respond to me)

"You are purposely missing the point. If Rowling gets cancelled, anyone that holds her views are cancelled by proxy.

What **** did she spout? What was particularly egregious to you? What should she be accountable for?"

When you answer my questions, I'll answer yours. Three questions. Fire ahead.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006671#Comment_118006671

JK Rowling is a transphobe and is arguing for taking away the rights of transwomen.

It is, of course, ironic that JK Rowling previously talked about freedom of speech in an article she posted with comments turned off, and tweeted with replies turned off, days after silencing someone with a legal threat but you do you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006741#Comment_118006741

You are being a little bigoted. What about transmen?

What rights did she try to take away from "transwomen"?

Am I a transphobe if I don't believe a woman can be a man (or vice versa)?

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006757#Comment_118006757

We were talking about Jk and she argues against transwomen but I guess you're highfiving yourself thinking you somehow "got me".

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006543#Comment_118006543

People are allowed views & you don't have to friggin agree with them but basic facts like biology hold no matter what, go deal with it.

What does it matter if someone is a billionaire? how does that affect anything? why is it shite? because you don't agree? shall we talk how stupid it was Maya Forstater lost her job?

So is biology shite now? ffs

"Dress however you please.

Call yourself whatever you like.

Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.

Live your best life in peace and security.

But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real? "

The twatter mafia tried to cancel her as far as I can see, if not what were "they " attempting?

Leaving aside the fact that recent (recently repeated I should point out) revelations about Facebook should make anyone skeptical about groups which can be identified by the platform on which they appear to exist, do the two points in bold not contradict each other somewhat?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006774#Comment_118006774

No highfiving.

I'll ask again, what rights did she try to take away from "transwomen"?

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006600#Comment_118006600

Right, a trans "woman" cannot give birth can they? nor can they have a period. Nothing can change that!

She stated plenty of times that people should respect the rights of transgender people and their identity.

let's look into the case and what her beliefs are:-

She claimed she was discriminated against because of her beliefs, which include "that sex is immutable and not to be conflated with gender identity".

Let's look at sex determination and what makes a male a male - the Y chromosome, the fact someone has it makes them male or we could look at like XY is male and XX is female in biology and this is there from the get go.

Sexual characteristic is determined by biology and without it we wouldn't exist as we do, the determination or presence of Y determines how are sexual characteristics are developed and therefore how we reproduce and survive.

Sexual differentiation occurs later but the sex is already determined.

It is that simple, it's not nuanced or false at all it is determined from the get go, even if I was XY and wanted to wear a dress my sex has been determined already and all the surgery in the world will not change the presence of a Y chromosome.

We could look at pathways and bring intersex disorders (and the hormone relation) into this but it still doesn't change our sexual evolution, you'll note that XXY and XXX types do not have genitalia issues so can assume the issue to that is hormonal and a pathway issue not chromosomal and guess what the same applies to plants.

So tell me again how she was wrong? as I just don't see it.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006820#Comment_118006820

The entire judgement:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5e15e7f8e5274a06b555b8b0/Maya_Forstater__vs_CGD_Europe__Centre_for_Global_Development_and_Masood_Ahmed_-_Judgment.pdf

the judges conclusion in the Forstater case:

"I conclude from this, and the totality of the evidence, that the Claimant is

absolutist in her view of sex and it is a core component of her belief that she

will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates

their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or

offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic

society."

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006799#Comment_118006799

She is arguing to take away the rights of transwomen to use female spaces.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006847#Comment_118006847

Do you believe that sex and gender are separate?

Do you believe a biological man can become a biological woman?

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006782#Comment_118006782

You can have opposing views and have a debate, you don't go and get people sacked for having differing views or just slating them for their views.

I think Brexit is a load of shite but I don't impose my viewpoint on others or go out of my way to attack etc those that differ to my viewpoint.

So no I don't think it is contradictive, the latter highlighted may of been vindictive though.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006856#Comment_118006856

sex and gender are not the same thing.

plus you still havent provided any evidence of JK being cancelled...sweetie

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006868#Comment_118006868

Do you support transwomen continuing to use female and/or female only spaces ?

Or do you support cancelling them?

Was a good show, although he has produced better over the years imo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006880#Comment_118006880

Cool. So women and men are different and should be treated as such.

cocotheclown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006847#Comment_118006847

That's from the original case that went against her? so there's a reason she won the appeal

 "Forstater said: “I struggle to express the shock and disbelief I feel at reading this judgment, which I think will be shared by the vast majority of people who are familiar with my case.

“My belief … is that sex is a biological fact, and is immutable. There are two sexes, male and female. Men and boys are male. Women and girls are female. It is impossible to change sex. These were until very recently understood as basic facts of life by almost everyone.

“… This judgment removes women’s rights and the right to freedom of belief and speech. It gives judicial licence for women and men who speak up for objective truth and clear debate to be subject to aggression, bullying, no-platforming and economic punishment.

“I will consider the judgment closely with my legal team to determine what can be done to challenge it.”"

and then from the appeal:-

He concluded that Ms Forstater was "absolutist" in her view and said she was not entitled to ignore the rights of a transgender person and the "enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering".

But the Honourable Mr Justice Choudhury said her "gender-critical beliefs" did fall under the Equalities Act as they "did not seek to destroy the rights of trans persons".

gmisk

I think James Acaster did a pretty spot on job of taking the hand out of so called edgy comedians who rip into trans people.

https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005230#Comment_118005230

Brilliant post. Absolutely spot on.