Is Dave Chappelle's new special "The Closer" really transphobic?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022147#Comment_118022147

Is this the joke about how do you keep a fool in suspense?

Buddy Bubs

I'm just delighted I'm a white, straight male (cis I think I'm called these days, is that correct?) and can get on with my day in peace, do what I want to do. Everyone else seems to be looking around to find something to be outraged about something or other. It must be exhausting.

I'm not sure this whole LGBTQ stuff is in any way as big a part of people's everyday lives as it seems, I only encounter it on the Internet and as Dave himself said on the show, that's not a real place.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022190#Comment_118022190

it's people getting offended on behalf others that is the problem, the "others" are usually lovely people who don't wish to cause a fuss

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022230#Comment_118022230

Exactly. 24/7 on the Internet but I think in the 'real world' people just want to get on with their lives. And for the most part, they do. It's when boredom sets in and the Internet gets involved the madness starts.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022190#Comment_118022190

You forgot the + you bigot!!! (Sarcasm)

B.A._Baracus

Yeah I would agree it's people getting offended on behalf of others. Which I absolutely hate people like that. Moral crusaders. People who seek out to be offended.

@Buddy Bubs half of me agrees with you that in the real world no one gives a f**k and just wants get on with things. The other half thinks there are a lot of poncy and pretentious people out there. The type of love to put people in their place.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022230#Comment_118022230

Dave Chapelle’s whole career has been based upon his being offended on behalf of other people, specifically black people in American society. It’s why he focuses on highlighting racial inequality and uses stereotypes to make his points through social commentary. Most of the time he does it through humour, but beneath the humour he’s making a serious point. Like when he made the special about the killing of George Floyd, or when he was talking about why he chose to do the Netflix specials. He couldn’t cancel Comedy Central or HBO, and when Netflix started streaming the Chapelle Show, he called them up and told them to stop because he was hurt.

He repaid them by agreeing to do the series of specials. He was obviously stuck for material so chose to highlight the fact that black people are treated lesser than the alphabet people, who had no quarrel with him whatsoever, until he started on them, and then claimed that they were coming for him, displaying a fairly shìtty victim complex in the process because people were offended by being the butt of his shìtty jokes.

There’s no question he tells a good story when he’s not trying to be funny -

https://youtu.be/SIbt3pLI4-A

You haven't a bulls notion of dave chappelles career if that first sentence is a serious position

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023401#Comment_118023401

Says you who tried to pull me up on my using the word negro in 2021, completely missing the point, and the reference?

If you say so.

You want to explain the point of that?

Because you havent

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023042#Comment_118023042

you've heard of Dave chapelle yes?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118022689#Comment_118022689

People who seek out to be offended.

It's really gotten worse over the last while.

Thread after thread on this platform at least started by people who can't help getting worked up by someone advocating on behalf of themselves or someone else. The difference between these people and those who they get worked up by, is one group is motivated on doing something to help others, somewhere, feel better, or be treated better, this other crowd is getting offended just for the sake of it. Well, it's not just for the sake of it probably, I think they're concerned a positive change in circumstances for someone else will automatically mean a negative change for them in some way.

Either way, they have become what they claim to hate. Or probably just revealed themselves more likely.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023888#Comment_118023888

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024370#Comment_118024370

Is there a character limitation on the new site design I’m unaware of lads? Has it actually morphed from a discussion site into an even poorer substitute for Twitter?

I’ve not only heard of him, but I’ve been a fan of his art for as long as he’s been a mainstream comedian catering for a mainstream audience.

Now, as far as @[Deleted User] is concerned, and you I suppose, you’re both suggesting that I’m not familiar with his work, for reasons which you appear determined to keep a closely guarded secret known only to yourselves. That’s cool ‘n’ all, it means yiz are right, according to yereselves. I’m happy for ye to keep it that way.

@[Deleted User] the reason I used the reference was simple - it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Chapelle’s making the point that the person responsible for upholding standards on the network had a blind spot when it came to racism. According to them it was permissible for Chapelle to use the word which is blanked out by the swear filter on Boards, because he’s black, whereas he wasn’t permitted to use the other word which is blanked out by the swear filter on Boards, because he’s not gay. He was making the point that he’s not what is commonly considered a racist slur among white people either, with the effect that he was pointing out the double standards of the network that they didn’t see his attitude as racist, but they were quick to point out his attitude as homophobic. He elaborated further on the same point in his latest special -

Chapelle said; 

“DaBaby was the number one streaming artist until a couple of weeks ago. He took a nasty spill on stage and said some wild stuff about the LGTBQ community during a concert in Florida. Now, you know even I go heard in the paint, but even I saw that s–t and was like ‘God damn, DaBaby!’. Ooohhh, he pushed the button, didn’t he? He pushed the button — punched the LGTBQ community right in the AIDS. Can’t do that. 

“But I do believe that the kid made a very egregious mistake, I will acknowledge that, but a lot of the LGBTQ community doesn’t know DaBaby’s history, he’s a wild guy. He once shot a n—a and killed him in Walmart. This is true, Google it: DaBaby shot and killed a n—a in Walmart in North Carolina… nothing bad happened to his career.

“In our country, you can shoot and kill a n—a, but you better not hurt a gay person’s feelings. And this is precisely the disparity that I wish to discuss.”

https://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2021/10/dave-chappelle-rails-against-cancel-culture-after-being-accused-of-being-transphobic-amid-the-closer-controversy.html

He was making the point that he made in the last paragraph above, and he was right, as evidenced by the fact that more people in American society were upset by his transphobic comments, than they were about the killing of a black man.

I figured that @John Doe1 being familiar with Chapelle’s work would get the reference and know that it was tongue-in-cheek, I was hardly subtle in making the point that John is neither black, nor American, so it was understandable that he wouldn’t get where Chapelle was coming from, Chapelle being both black, and American.

What I didn’t expect, is that anyone who claimed to be familiar with Chapelle’s work, and is championing Chapelle as a genius and all the rest of it while he peppers his monologues generously with the n-word, would find it astonishing, ASTONISHING, that a white guy would use the word negro - fine with the black guy being racist, but leaps over themselves to point out that the white guy is racist, while complaining about cancel culture and how quick people are to take offence on behalf of other people. @[Deleted User] I didn’t realise you were black or transgender, unless you’re white and not transgender and it’s fine with you when black people are racist and transphobic? According to @John Doe1 it’s a comedians role to attack sacred cows and apparently for a lot of posters here comedy is all about insulting every group in society as though they’re all of equal status.

We’re all aware that in reality every group in society isn’t of equal status, and that the most sacred cow of all is still white straight men who can’t laugh at themselves, but always see themselves as the victim if anyone who isn’t a white straight man takes aim at them for satirical purposes. That’s called punching up. What Dave Chapelle was doing in his latest special, and what anyone is doing by using people who are transgender as a vehicle for comedy, or to make a point about free speech, is punching down, and that’s just shìtty, low-grade, cheap and easy humour, nothing particularly clever about it, let alone genius. It’s setting a low bar for genius if that’s the best anyone can do.

Dave is good when he sticks to what he knows, and leave the jokes about people who are transgender, to people who are transgender. Some crackers below, but this is one of my favourites -

https://www.them.us/story/trans-jokes-by-trans-people

Ok

Two "oh arent i cute" and one six hundred word rambling post later you finally get to the point- its ok for you to use the word negro because dave chappelle uses nigga

Look- it isnt

And you know nothing about my views on any of the rest of it

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025385#Comment_118025385

Even after a six hundred word rambling post, you’re still missing the point that it isn’t permissible for a white guy to use the word negro, regardless of whether or not Dave Chapelle uses the word. You think I wasn’t aware of that? I’m as aware of that as Dave Chapelle is aware of the fact that people who are transgender aren’t to blame for the fact that American white society doesn’t give a shìt about black people.

It’s why I said from my very first post that Dave Chapelle isn’t transphobic, but the show definitely meets the criteria for what is considered transphobic, which is why I provided the definition of transphobia, so at least there was a commonly agreed standard by which an objective judgment could be made, regardless of people’s feelings one way or the other.

It’s fair enough I suppose to point out that I don’t know your views on any of the rest of it, but it doesn’t require a genius level intellect to figure out that it’s not unreasonable to deduce from the fact that you’re of the opinion that I’m unfamiliar with Dave Chapelle’s work, and that you were astonished I had the audacity the word negro in 2021, that your views of his work are quite different to mine. It’s ok though, because I have a black friend who thinks it’s hilarious, ‘no sacred cows’ and all that shyte.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021912#Comment_118021912

Christ mate, you are really taking all this very seriously.

It is very simple. Women are people who can have babies, female genitalia and an XX Chromosome. Trans Woman are something else. It is not all that controversial to state that fact.

Trans woman is to woman as Rachel Dolezal is to Black woman.

Also, why in the hell are are you using the term "Negro" ?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025385#Comment_118025385

Just because you struggle with or don't like reading apparently, you should stop trying to dismiss someone who is genuinely making an effort to support their position.

Simplistic off the cuff are all well and good, but this is a very nuanced topic and OEJ is at least putting some thought in to their argument. Maybe we'd know more about your views if you put similar effort in to your content.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025683#Comment_118025683

Ahh I’m really not taking it all that seriously at all John, because it makes absolute feckall difference to me personally however anyone wants to police language or however people refer to themselves, be it man, woman or child. The only people taking it seriously are the people who try to police other peoples language, and then play the victim when they can’t control how other people express themselves or they can’t control the fact that other people don’t give a shìt about the things that matter to them personally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025835#Comment_118025835

That whole paragraph deserves either the biggest round of applause or the biggest facepalm for it's intentional or unintentional use of irony

Arah im out, one that is in a typing contest and one breathlessly fangirling for them

Chapelle is and should be better than his recent material, is my line

LillySV

Fair **** to him , he calls out all the bullshite and nonsense in the latest closer vid, I watched him for the first time ever when watching that the other nite and found him highly entertaining and a breath of fresh air … Someone not frightened to call out the latest constantly offended woke gobshite generation

oookkkaaayyy

Wasn't his best special, but worth a watch. The alphabet people need to grow a funny bone.

85603

watched it. fairly unexceptional imo, too much politics and rambling. 5/10.

the whole stage show thing must be a difficult format. to fill a whole hour is always going to be a strain, even for great comedians.

podcasts seem like a way easier format for getting the best out of comedians, they can talk with co-hosts and guests and pick out topics as it suits, more creative space.

less successful comedians podcasts have given me way more lulz than this special. if chappelle did a podcast/radio show no doubt it would be way funnier than his recent specials.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025683#Comment_118025683

Not all women can have babies? Are they not women?

Not all women are XX. Are they not women?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032528#Comment_118032528

Some women can't have children due to medical conditions,

they are still women ,

Men who self identify as women are still men who just happen to be trans ,

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030854#Comment_118030854

The question posed in the opening post wasn’t whether or not Chapelle should be better than his recent material, it wasn’t asking what in anyone’s opinion does or doesn’t constitute a woman either. I’ve never requested a woman’s chromosome profile or demanded proof that she had the capacity to give birth before I regarded her as a woman, have you? That’s how stupid the idea sounds.

Objectively, the show was transphobic. If people are going to demand that everyone else adhere to facts and objective definitions, the show meets the criteria because it perpetuated prejudice against people who are transgender, and purposely so. That’s why it wasn’t as funny for me as it could have been too, because the whole show just came off as spiteful and bitter, as if Chapelle wanted to prove he has the influence to be a bigger dick than the people he was complaining about -

Towards the end of The Closer, Chappelle joked that he would no longer make jokes that target the LGBTQ+ community, saying, “I am not telling another joke about you until we are both sure that we are laughing together.

“I’m telling you, it’s done, I’m done talking about it,” he said. “All I ask of your community, with all humility: Will you please stop punching down on my people?” he said in reference to DaBaby and other Black celebrities such as Kevin Hart who have faced criticism for homophobic comments.

Nobody was punching down on “his people”, they criticised people for their shìtty comments about other people. They weren’t being criticised for being black any more than JK Rowling was criticised for being a woman. They were being criticised for behaving like dicks. Happens to anyone who behaves like a dick, regardless of their skin colour or sex or gender or anything else. Playing the victim means trying to elicit sympathy when people point out that you’re being a dick.

@[Deleted User] there’s no irony in what I said (unless you have your own definition of irony, which is entirely plausible). I’d challenge you to give an example of any time you can think of where I ever demanded that anyone had to agree with me, or where I ever got upset and behaved like a petulant child when they didn’t. You won’t be able to find any, but if you look at the post I was responding to where @John Doe1 is telling me what a woman is, I didn’t ask John what a woman is, and I didn’t care for being told what a woman is either, because I don’t care for what anyone else thinks a woman is, not you, not John, and not Dave Chapelle. That’s what I mean when I say I have no interest in policing other people’s language or how they express themselves. When was the last time you requested a woman’s chromosome profile or proof she has the capacity to give birth, before you regarded her as a woman?

Dyr

A summation of the argument that not agreeing with them is witerawy violence against trans-peoplekin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXiZHXkG-ac

This whole "punching up/down" bollocks is hilarious.

Either everyone is ok to be joked about or nobody is. That's equality.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033387#Comment_118033387

No such thing as bullying if that's the case the dunne, sure it's all just banter and horseplay amongst friends.

Things aren't always easily put in to boxes, no matter how easy it would make things if they were.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118034233#Comment_118034233

Fair point.

To me, the whole premise of punching up/down could just as easily be classed as bullying, insulting and condescending.

If you believe that any group of people are too "marginalised" for others who you deem more "privileged" , then you are pre-judging and stereotyping two groups and I've seen the phrase used too often to simply shut down jokes they don't like.