Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

lawred2 wrote: »

Are you sure about the opposite?

Fairly sure tbh

Last week, the Restaurants Association of Ireland called on the Irish government to make a decision by Tuesday on whether all indoor entertainment will be allowed to resume from 5 July.

As for "Maybe make a complaint"
Is that trolling? Or bait posting? I don't quite understand what you're trying to achieve there. Are you holding the RAI responsible for government and NPHET timelines?

No simply a little it of exasperation But no matter. And again things which were never said :rolleyes:

lawred2

gozunda wrote: »

Fairly sure tbh






No simply a little it of exasperation. But no matter. And again things which were never said :rolleyes:

there's exasperation all round

Why should a complaint be made to the RAI?

Ballynally

funnydoggy wrote: »

Stephen "Trampoline" Donnelly on the radio with Pat "COVID plume" Kenny. No questioning the lies there, just disinformation and hysteria.

Balanced as f*ck.

Pat K was asking about the update of the DCC, the Green Cert. Donnelly replied that it will go 'live' on july19 as planned and then proceeded to talk about how great Ireland was w the vaccine rollout.
I expected Kenny to ask him what 'live' actually meant, but no, thats where it stopped..

Edit: it is a bit like it was w the delay of opening up.fr 5 to 19 july. Meaning: we'll see how we are by that time, not actually have anything concrete in place on that date.

facehugger99

TomTomTim wrote: »

This mindset is effecting all policy in Ireland, not just COVID. Anything that exists outside of "accepted speech" or standards, will not be opposed, mainly due to cowardice. We truly have a broken democracy in this country.

Too many people afraid of being labeled 'granny-killers'.

A politician will choose to spend tens of billions of euro rather than stand up to social-media abuse - sure why not, it's not their money they're spending.

gozunda

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You’ve invented the argument that people expected the modelling to be based on NIACs recent decision.

Nope. Not at all and not the case - it would appear that the general gist of the critics here was that Data was presented to cabinet without that information included or modelled.

Here's just one example

ACitizenErased wrote: »

....

Data was then presented to cabinet without that information included or modelled. There should have been scenarios included which factored in full vaccination of the population by August. What was shown to cabinet was a scenario where full vaccination of the population was not completed until September or October, as per previous projections. ...

So I'll leave the rest of your comment there as its not relevant

Patrick2010

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope we're now a step closer to the reopening of indoor hospitality by the end of the July

Still a lot of hurdles

Can't see it, haven't you heard there's a covid hurricane on the way?. It'll be pushed out initially until after the bank holiday, then until after schools reopen. By that time there'll probably be another variant even more infectious.

cluelessbuyer9

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope we're now a step closer to the reopening of indoor hospitality by the end of the July

Still a lot of hurdles

Deluded.



Maybe July 2022 if that's what you were referring to.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

Too many people afraid of being labeled 'granny-killers'.

A politician will choose to spend tens of billions of euro rather than stand up to social-media abuse - sure why not, it's not their money they're spending.

Such a good point didn’t some politician say this more or less during the last year that they have to manage their social media profile likes etc. Real downside of social media if likes and shared are all that counts. Would it be a reason why other countries are ahead of us in the reopening not so dependent on social media just a thought could be a factor.

namloc1980

gozunda wrote: »

Can you not accept you're completely off base on this now?

And again I see you're pushing the Time machine scenario that they should have included the data before they had it. Grand so.

And yes I read the letter. I was the first to post a link to it here afair. And when are restaurants being proposed to open following the delay? Atm mid to late July seems to on the cards all things going well.

Maybe you should look at all the information in context before commenting further.

LoL. You got caught out badly there. You claimed:

..the information presented was what what was relevant to a short delay in the opening of indoor dining and not several months down the line as more vaccines were being made available.

The NPHET letter says otherwise and they did "model" several months down the line with indoor dining factored in. But not increased vaccinations (even as a scenario they should have modelled this in even without the exact details) or seasonality for that matter. Ouch, badly caught out.

gozunda

namloc1980 wrote: »

LoL. You got caught out badly there. You claimed:
The NPHET letter says otherwise and they did "model" several months down the line with indoor dining factored in.But not increased vaccinations (even as a scenario they should have modelled this in even without the exact details) or seasonality for that matter. Ouch, badly caught out.

Lol. Sure when in context you already know that what I referenced was to the NiAC recommendations not being factored in . You already quoted it btw

:..the information presented was what what was relevant to a short delay in the opening of indoor dining and not several months down the line as more vaccines were being made available.

Thats a miss I'm afraid.

Stormyteacup

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Not at all and not the case - it would appear that the general gist of the critics here was that Data was presented to cabinet without that information included or modelled.

Here's just one example



So I'll leave the rest of your comment there as its not relevant.

Honestly? You’re disregarding the fact that a faster vaccination rollout was already a more than very likely scenario based on the last few weeks discussions with a reduction in gap for AZ and the work to implement same, coupled with the likelihood that NIAC would widen the recommendations for vaccines.

Even if it wasn’t rubber-stamped you really believe NPHET should not have run a model where the vaccination control variable was more favourable over the next three months?

gozunda

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Honestly? You’re disregarding the fact that a faster vaccination rollout was already a more than very likely scenario based on the last few weeks discussions with a reduction in gap for AZ and the work to implement same, coupled with the likelihood that NIAC would widen the recommendations for vaccines.Even if it wasn’t rubber-stamped you really believe NPHET should not have run a model where the vaccination control variable was more favourable over the next three months?

No. Simply a diatribe of could of/ should of / would of is just really not relevant to the issue where bizarrely some are still flogging a dead horse and thinking a time machine should have been employed by Tony et al. And no I'm not a supporter - but rather simply looking at what actually happened. But there we are.

I'll leave it there I think. There's only so much head bashing that's really possible.

Ballynally

To the back and forth posters above:
Nobody wants others to point out their mistakes and/or inconsistencies.
It does not fare well.
People will deny, deflect, re-construct and re-conceptualise.
There is one thing they wont but should do: REFLECT.
I have yet to find a person to admit they got something wrong and leave it at that.

Stormyteacup

gozunda wrote: »

No. Simply a diatribe of could of/ should of / would of is just really not relevant to the issue where bizarrely some are still flogging a dead horse and thinking a time machine should have been employed by Tony et al. And no I'm not a supporter - but rather simply looking at what actually happened. But there we are.

I'll leave it there I think. There's only so much head bashing that's really possible.

Yes head bashing indeed.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/dr-tony-holohan-has-asked-niac-if-unused-astrazeneca-vaccines-may-be-administered-to-20s-age-group-40576908.html

Tony Holohan busy working on speeding up vaccination rollout but decides not to include it as a factor in modelling for the next three months.

Yes, shall leave it at that then.

gozunda

Ballynally wrote: »

To the back and forth posters above:
Nobody wants others to point out their mistakes and/or inconsistencies.
It does not fare well.
People will deny, deflect, re-construct and re-conceptualise.
There is one thing they wont but should do: REFLECT.
I have yet to find a person to admit they got something wrong and leave it at that.

To be fair Ballynally. We could all write that about those who we don't agree with.

namloc1980

gozunda wrote: »

Thats a miss I'm afraid.

It's literally what you said. Embarrassing yourself now by denying what you yourself said.

is_that_so

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes head bashing indeed.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/dr-tony-holohan-has-asked-niac-if-unused-astrazeneca-vaccines-may-be-administered-to-20s-age-group-40576908.html

Tony Holohan busy working on speeding up vaccination rollout but decides not to include it as a factor in modelling for the next three months.

Yes, shall leave it at that then.

Not sure why he's doing that, it's a HSE purview and they've been the ones working with NIAC.

gozunda

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's literally what you said. Embarrassing yourself now by denying what you yourself said.

Thing is about feelings of embarrassment - is that you cannot project them on to others. Only yourself.

But yes it is what I said and it goes to disprove what you're trying to claim. But no matter. Leaving it there. Ta.

LeeroyJ.

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1410586796111667201?s=20


67% 1-Dose would put us ahead of Israel, the UK and the US and 45% 2-Dose is about equal to the US and the UK. Kind of mad that we still have one of the strictest lockdowns in the western world. You have to applaud the vaccine effort, but it raises the question as to what exactly is the endgame here

0lddog

Anyone listen to BBC R4 'World at One' today ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xfgz

Skip to around 18:45

The Brits have finally got it !

FileNotFound

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

This is from the time when the Alpha variant was emerging at the very end of 2020. It's as good an explanation as I've seen about why increased transmissibility is so serious for the public health situation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/12/virus-mutation-catastrophe/617531/

Interesting read, but a few too many maybe's really in it.

There is no doubt that a virus with higher transmissability carries higher risk.


However this conversation is really how can one justify taking the risk last year (and it worked out fine for the summer) with no immunity while now we run scared with some immunity in a large proportion of the population.

Also we have to look at Ireland (most large cities carry 1-3 times our population sometimes way more) yet are open with higher density and thus easier spread for the virus. But we have decided to lead the way in hiding away.


I have been a strong proponent of taking the safe option, but based on how last summer went with indoor dining open, the now utter indifference to restrcitions of many, the increased immunity in our population through both vaccination and infection, the current low levels in hospitals, the information from the UK that high case load is not meaning high hospitalisation or death.

I just still cannot understand the standout modelling leading us - unless it is from a point of absolute fear .

I mean I watched 1000's in stadiums on tv and no nations is being overwhelmed???

Theoretical worst case based on unknown/unspecified data, is not in line with actual reality now. Thats my real concern. We have the worlds biggest case stufy next door - we can just keep an eye on that and react accordingly.

Now maybe I am wrong and am happy to be shown anything that says so - if the proof is there I will even back us going into full lockdown. Alas I haven't come across anything to support our current course.


It has always been save the at risk and don't overwhelm the hospitals - when did case numbers become the new game??

breadmond

Have any protests been planned for this weekend yet? I haven't gone on any so far but I'm done with the government at this stage, they really need to go after the last week. From talking to people a lot feel the same so I could imagine huge numbers turning out

TefalBrain

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope we're now a step closer to the reopening of indoor hospitality by the end of the July

Still a lot of hurdles

Not a chance in hell. NPHET's will be using the coming rise in cases (not that cases matter now) as an excuse to keep it closed. Indoor won't be open again this year mark my words.

jammiedodgers

https://twitter.com/DrHaroldNews/status/1410271048667369473

mikekerry

breadmond wrote: »

Have any protests been planned for this weekend yet? I haven't gone on any so far but I'm done with the government at this stage, they really need to go after the last week. From talking to people a lot feel the same so I could imagine huge numbers turning out

There is one in dublin city centre saturday @ 12 outside GPO

FileNotFound

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1410586796111667201?s=20


67% 1-Dose would put us ahead of Israel, the UK and the US and 45% 2-Dose is about equal to the US and the UK. Kind of mad that we still have one of the strictest lockdowns in the western world. You have to applaud the vaccine effort, but it raises the question as to what exactly is the endgame here

Thats kind of astounding to be honest.

As a person who has supported the effort to keep the nation safe for 18 months - I struggle with this.

TefalBrain

breadmond wrote: »

Have any protests been planned for this weekend yet? I haven't gone on any so far but I'm done with the government at this stage, they really need to go after the last week. From talking to people a lot feel the same so I could imagine huge numbers turning out

The government along with their media arm have put too much fear and anxiety in the populace for serious numbers to turn up and protest.

Covid is nothing now but a mild respiratory illness.

_Kaiser_

jammiedodgers wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrHaroldNews/status/1410271048667369473

Ah Eamon Ryan.. never disappoints! Still can't believe him and his shower of fantasists are actually in Government again after their performance the last time.

MOH

gansi wrote: »

Such a good point didn’t some politician say this more or less during the last year that they have to manage their social media profile likes etc. Real downside of social media if likes and shared are all that counts. Would it be a reason why other countries are ahead of us in the reopening not so dependent on social media just a thought could be a factor.

Well the Minister for Health requested an analysis of tweets by the Department of Health to see why he wasn't being mentioned in departmental tweets when others such as Tony Holohan, NPHET, and the Minister for Education were.

In January.

In the middle of the most serious pandemic "hurricane" to date.
So that tells you all you need to know about his priorities.

breadmond

TefalBrain wrote: »

The government along with their media arm have put too much fear and anxiety in the populace for serious numbers to turn up and protest.

Covid is nothing now but a mild respiratory illness.

I hear what you're saying but anecdotally amongst my friends there are a lot who up to this week were happy to stick with the plan but after having the rug pulled out from under us on indoor dining are now genuinely angry in a way that I haven't seen before