Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Vicxas

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Donnelly but given the sheer amount of hurlers on the ditch and their infallible belief in their own blowhard infallibility, I can't help but have some sympathy for him.

Why, he's a spineless Yes man. Like the rest of the sitting government.

DellyBelly

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

the kelt

B2021M wrote: »

Yes and not only that....were they going to wait until thursday to land these new shocking projections on govt?

There is constant meetings between Government and NPHET etc and the "biggest hurricane this country has ever seen" wasnt noticed until Monday when Government not NPHET brought the meeting forward.

Sure Doomsday could have waited till thursday i suppose!

Quags

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

Wouldn't believe anything from her, she is a grief junkie who is loving Covid

suicide_circus

I see a few people fobbing this issue off as "it's only indoor dining ffs".

While that's certainly a big issue for people whose livelihoods are being destroyed, its not the most important.

Lockdowns and restrictions are here to stay. They are a legitimate weapon in the government toolkit now. By not locking down each winter, thousands of people will die of flu unnecessarily. Every death is a tragedy. We've seen that locking down brought rates of flu down to pretty much zero. What's the justification going to be for not locking down?

The second issue is the quality of data required to justify restrictions. The NPHET modelling presented to cabinet leading to the delay of opening indoor dining was shambolic, absolutely wild. Basing decisions on the most pessimistic extremely unlikely scenario is no way to run a society. But apparently now it is.

Shelga

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

Bring it on. I actually couldn't care less anymore about getting this virus. Being sick for a couple of weeks has to be better than being fed this narrative of fear ENDLESSLY.

Boggles

Looks like the Euro's are turning into quite the spreader event.

Health authorities in Finland say about 300 people tested positive for the coronavirus after returning from Russia, where they watched matches of the UEFA European Football Championship

But at least UEFA got paid and that's all that really matters.

namloc1980

gozunda wrote: »

He did? Link please



Nope. The fact is the Nphet model couldn't have included the latest NIAC changes with regard to additional vaccines being made to the under 40s - because the NIAC recommendations were only announced on the day the finalised Nphet briefing letter was sent (including details of the completed model) by the CMO to the Government

Do you think that's good enough? Did anyone not think to themselves....."jaysus lads, we have imminent updated info available that's likely to impact our modelling. Let's hold off for a couple of days and see what that changes".

Honestly, if I presented a paper for decision to my senior managers at work with outdated information and I knew I had more updated information to hand that would likely impact the decision being made, I would be taken to one side and given a serious talking to.

Whatsisname

Boggles wrote: »

Looks like the Euro's are turning into quite the spreader event.



But at least UEFA got paid and that's all that really matters.

Lol.

suicide_circus

keano_afc wrote: »

This is car crash stuff. Pat is well in bed with the Covid fanatics, but even he's exposing Donnelly for the clown he is.

Pat "Tool of the Regime" Kenny was compromised as an impartial commentator 15 months ago.

Snooker Loopy

Vicxas wrote: »

Why, he's a spineless Yes man. Like the rest of the sitting government.

That's the exact sort of post that gives me sympathy for him.

Multiply your disdain for Donnelly by about 10 for the sort of disdain I have for self appointed "open it up" internet experts.

TomTomTim

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

This is exactly what they want; fear, fear and more fear. They've been wrong about so much up until now, yet you still treat their words like gold? If you had a friend in a friend group, who was constantly wrong, you'd stop listening to them, yet few people seem to apply this logic to the state or the "experts".

namloc1980

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

The bit in bold is where you went wrong.

Jinglejangle69

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

What's frightening you exactly?

There is vaccines.

After that, there is not much more we can do but try get in with our lives.

Like the flu each year, people will die.

That's life.

B2021M

the kelt wrote: »

There is constant meetings between Government and NPHET etc and the "biggest hurricane this country has ever seen" wasnt noticed until Monday when Government not NPHET brought the meeting forward.

Sure Doomsday could have waited till thursday i suppose!

I wonder did MM put pressure on for numbers to be produced quickly and mistakes have slipped through in the figures? Or else TH decided to 'produce' shocking figures to put MM back in his box.

JeffKenna

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is exactly what they want; fear, fear and more fear. They've been wrong about so much up until now, yet you still treat their words like gold? If you had a friend in a friend group, who was constantly wrong, you'd stop listening to them, yet few people seem to apply this logic to the state or the "experts".

Your man sounds grand, no shortness of breath on the phone anyway.

funnydoggy

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

That's the exact sort of post that gives me sympathy for him.

Multiply your disdain for Donnelly by about 10 for the sort of disdain I have for self appointed "open it up" internet experts.

Not sure why you'd feel sympathy for him, as he's shown his true colours a few times at this stage. An unpleasant, arrogant man.

namloc1980

Boggles wrote: »

Looks like the Euro's are turning into quite the spreader event.



But at least UEFA got paid and that's all that really matters.

My god, 300 people you say! How many of those are in hospital / ICU?

Sobit1964

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

In a few weeks you might not be able to goto the beach again. :rolleyes:

DellyBelly

namloc1980 wrote: »

The bit in bold is where you went wrong.

They had a an Irish guy who works for sky who got the delta virus and he's in a bad way at the moment. A very fit guy and in a real bad way. Also had 1 Astra jab as well...

Boggles

namloc1980 wrote: »

My god, 300 people you say! How many of those are in hospital / ICU?

Yep only 10% of those that went.

And sure no way they will spread it to anyone else.

Can't happen. Not the way this virus works.

Snooker Loopy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Pat "Tool of the Regime" Kenny was compromised as an impartial commentator 15 months ago.

Laughable. On this thread yis have half the "open it brigade" saying Kenny was making a fool of Donnelly.

And then there's the other half, the "Kenny is a tool of the regime" conspiracist brigade.

Ye can't even agree among yereselves and it's making ye look very foolish.

You're obviously the type of person who prefers the Fox NewsOANN/Newsmax/GB News style of propaganda.

clubberlang12

The UK based reporter on Claire Byrne saying that this is "horrendous" and a terrible virus. Says that his daughter has tested positive.......

Claire: "And how is she feeling.... ?"

Enda: "Yeah she's absolutely fine"

You'd swear people never spend days in bed debilitated from a bad flu or cold before in pre-Covid history.

Dyr

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

That's the exact sort of post that gives me sympathy for him.

Multiply your disdain for Donnelly by about 10 for the sort of disdain I have for self appointed "open it up" internet experts.

Self appointed experts that are making decisions right across Europe and the world to leave these futile lockdowns, while our experts of experts, the cream of the Irish public sector health quango circles, are the actual outlier?


If Paddy and the boys decide we need a lockdown to deal with their annual hospital beds crisis this winter will you be cheerleading that? Any grannies that Paddy didnt kill off last year with his expertise will need saving, after all.

the kelt

Sobit1964 wrote: »

In a few weeks you might not be able to goto the beach again. :rolleyes:

To be fair facing in to "the biggest hurricane this country has ever seen" not going to the beach is a good call!!

funnydoggy

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Laughable. On this thread yis have half the "open it brigade" saying Kenny was making a fool of Donnelly.

And then there's the other half, the "Kenny is a tool of the regime" conspiracist brigade.

Ye can't even agree among yereselves and it's making ye look very foolish.

You're obviously the type of person who prefers the Fox NewsOANN/Newsmax/GB News style of propaganda.

:rolleyes: Here we go.

You do realise people from all walks of life have these opinions?

namloc1980

Boggles wrote: »

Yep only 10% of those that went.

And sure no way they will spread it to anyone else.

Can't happen. Not the way this virus works.

Again, I'll repeat the question. How many of those are in hospital/ICU, or dead for that matter, from Covid?

SAMTALK

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's quite clear that Holohan is using Covid as a personal chance at redemption for his past failings. By painting the virus as a deadly killer he gets to portray himself as the hero that will save us all.

He doesn't care if he has to drag the entire country down to do it and the Government are too cowardly and weak to stop this from happening.

This is very dangerous, ego-driven nonsense from a man who does not want to relinquish control and who is prepared to bully, leak and mislead his way to get what he wants.

The fact it's being lapped up by large swades of the population is worrying.

You are really over thinking the dislike of Holohan TBH if this is what you come up with

MrMusician18

suicide_circus wrote: »

I see a few people fobbing this issue off as "it's only indoor dining ffs".

While that's certainly a big issue for people whose livelihoods are being destroyed, its not the most important.

Lockdowns and restrictions are here to stay. They are a legitimate weapon in the government toolkit now. By not locking down each winter, thousands of people will die of flu unnecessarily. Every death is a tragedy. We've seen that locking down brought rates of flu down to pretty much zero. What's the justification going to be for not locking down?

The second issue is the quality of data required to justify restrictions. The NPHET modelling presented to cabinet leading to the delay of opening indoor dining was shambolic, absolutely wild. Basing decisions on the most pessimistic extremely unlikely scenario is no way to run a society. But apparently now it is.

Yes this can be fobbed off as just indoor dining, because that's what this change relates to. The cabinet were presented with a number of modelled scenarios varying in severity. None painted a great picture. They had to do something and tbh holding things almost as they are for a little while (no restrictions are being reimposed, something you'd hardly believe reading the consternation here) what probably the least action they could take.

The rest of that stuff above is just slippery slope fallacy nonsense

gozunda

Stormyteacup wrote: »

I’m saying it. Not odd at all - unless it’s the case they did model for speedier vaccination, it’s an obvious question to ask.

Do they need precise details to model scenarios? Surely that’s the point of modelling - plug in different values for the metrics that are subject to change.

Moving through rollout more quickly was already mooted. Did they have a time machine to plug in possible higher close contacts for example - where did they get the precise details for that or any other metric? Are there NIAC equivalents for all other model variables meaning these variables can only be plugged in after being signed off by the relevant committee and only then become ‘precise details’?

What’s odd is that you are defending the glaring omission of factoring in a very obvious metric that is subject to change - one that can be theorised as easily as any other metric used.

I’m not asking why all models didn’t contain the updated NIAC decision - the question is why did even just one model allow for example, a 20% speedier vaccination rollout.

Did you read the bit about how the details of the additional vaccination had to worked out as had been explained or still deliberately ignoring that?

Modelling doesn't work just by pressing button for "more vaccines please". But yes they do need fairly precise parameters- thats the issue.

Again SD commenting on that very issue following National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC) announcement that AstraZeneca and Janssen vaccines allowed to be used on all adults over 18.

We're working right now to calculate exactly what the change might be in terms of vaccinating people earlier but certainly it will move it forward several weeks.

"It would be lovely to be able to see a situation where every adult who wanted a vaccine would be fully vaccinated ideally by the end of August.

"But we need to work through the exact modelling of that now with the HSE, with the taskforce, and as always these timelines are heavily dependent on the supplies that arrive in."

https://www.joe.ie/news/stephen-donnelly-hoping-adults-will-able-fully-vaccinated-end-august-725283