Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

The sad part is that it is only the last few days that has people thinking we lost the plot, when in fact things have been badly wrong for well over a year now and they seemingly couldn't see it.

Please let this be the turning point... we can always dream.

maestroamado

aziz wrote: »

I don’t think we ever had the plot since the bloodless coup by nphet

We never had a plot.
Its not nphet fault, the Government are not capable of making a decision.
Therefore earlier on the said they were fallowing Medical advise.
They got caught the one time they did not take this advise.
Now they are trapped because they are unable to undo the previous mistakes...

mcsean2163

I just don't understand what we're doing. We are the most indebted country per capita in the EU and have increased spending the most percentage wise on covid19.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-to-have-highest-debt-per-head-in-europe-this-year-1.4503652?mode=amp

New international laws on corporation tax on the way and our yearly spending on social rents is about a billion.

I don't know how we avoid being the next Greece.

paw patrol

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

it's telling how people who raised this were mocked in the last year - those chicken are home to roost now - the reality some people are fools and would trade everything for comfort.

I know some are easily panic'd but I know so many well educated people who think the elimination of our natural rights is fine cos it's an emergency,

It only shows that if your rights are removed cos of strenuous times - you never had them in the first place.

Sofa King Great

Richard Hillman wrote: »

That 95% tweet from Nolan shows they are not giving up on this. It will still be 95% in winter, it will still be 95% next Summer and next winter.

Then you have their media stooges rolling out "what's the acceptable level of deaths?" lines. Gonna be the same lines in winter, next summer, next winner.

They will not go quietly into the night

Is Nolan suggesting that 95% efficacy means "5% will get seriously ill" vs "if you come in to contact with it, you have a 5% chance of serious illness"

LeeroyJ.

It's extremely concerning that even with what can only be called an extremely efficient and advanced Vaccine campaign, data and progress from our Peers (EU27, US, UK, Israel), and what was described as the ultimate exit strategy to protect the vulnerable - we are still taking one of the most conservative and slowest approaches to exiting restrictions.

This can only be attributed to the NPHET modelling taking our extremely overcrowded health system that was already fragile prior to the pandemic into account, knowing full well that even a small increase leads to danger of collapsing the system.
Pair this with underinvestment into other strategies like ventilation, testing (antigen and the usual overreliance on the private sector for PCR), housing (6 people bedrooms shares) and classroom sizes, and you can see exactly how and why the Government has no answer to this but jab and pray for herd immunity.

We can count ourselves lucky that the EU handled procurement, as I wholeheartedly doubt our elected officials would have been able to do so. Everyone, including the EU has been telling us we need to improve some of our infrastructure for years, especially around health and housing, yet it's been ignored time and time again. COVID-19 has just shined a bright light on the all the negligence of the past 20 or so years.

Ash.J.Williams

paw patrol wrote: »

we were never in this together and the plot was lost last summer.

the state was paralyzed with fear and our leaders had absolutely no risk appetitie
imagine a leader in any sector in fear of taking risk - it wouldn't happen - they would have never achieved anything and not made leader for sure.

The country and esp the young people were sacrificed for a small cohort of panic merchants who swallowed the guff from NPHET ,the state and the paid off media.

the covid19 was an exercise in overblown hysteria.
The equivalent of the moving statues for the non secular ireland of the new century

moving statues didn't kill anyone

melekalikimaka

alot of people here seem to know more than professionals... worrying times

Chivito550

Funny how many who were pushing "My Body, My Choice" a few years ago are now actively supporting the concept of discrimination based on vaccination. You just couldn't make it up. I'm pro vaccination, but I find this hypocrisy staggering.

Rayne Wooney

I could live with 2/3 weeks overcautiousness, if we had opened on the 21st/28th June there would be no outrage.

But we are basically a month behind Europe now, and with this pantomime that will play out over the next 3 weeks with the government pretending to come up with solutions it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the reopening is shifted again to August.

If the rest of Europe and UK is fine in the coming months and deaths don’t increase significantly then NPHET have cost us almost two months. At what point does that become malpractice? Like taking out a patients kidney in an appendectomy.

They aren’t only disagreeing with the majority of experts across Europe, they are overshooting their recommendations by a mile, it shows a serious brass neck to do this without fear of repercussions, all of these people should never work in the health sector again if they are proven wrong.

is_that_so

Apologies if it's been posted already - restaurants planning to sue the government.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/restaurant-body-files-lawsuit-against-state-over-discriminatory-indoor-dining-rules-40556391.html

Sleeper12

paw patrol wrote: »

the covid19 was an exercise in overblown hysteria.
The equivalent of the moving statues for the non secular ireland of the new century

2nd December 2020 270 new cases.
8th January 2021 8227 new cases


We did this in slightly over 5 weeks!! What do you suppose would happen if we didn't lock down? Do you think the high numbers would have gone away on their own? Do you suppose they would have increased into the 10s of thousands predicted?

_Kaiser_

melekalikimaka wrote: »

alot of people here seem to know more than professionals... worrying times

The same "professionals" who presented a key report that didn't include all the facts or data?

Those professionals?

Sleeper12

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

moving statues didn't kill anyone

I remember a statue being moved in the back of a truck. It fell on a guy as they unloaded it. Didn't die though.

bucketybuck

francogarbanzo wrote: »

What this highlights for me is that we're only a surge away from another real lockdown.

Only a surge of cases no less.

Royale with Cheese

melekalikimaka wrote: »

alot of people here seem to know more than professionals... worrying times

I'd be happy to follow the experts on this, just not our experts. If medical teams across the continent were doling out the same advice do you think most people here would have a problem with it? Just look at the opposition to antigen testing, fúcking bizarre behaviour from NPHET there.

Fils

melekalikimaka wrote: »

alot of people here seem to know more than professionals... worrying times

What professionals are you referring to?

CruelSummer

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0701/1232341-coronavirus-ireland/

How are Sinn Féin so high in the opinion polls with absolute rubbish like this from their ‘Up the ra’ health spokesman. The choices on the opposition bench are so poor.

“ Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Cullinane said these projections and assumptions have to be taken seriously, particularly given the difficulties the Delta variant is causing in the UK.

However, he said it is the last-minute planning by the Government that angers people, and the Government has left the hospitality sector without any plan.“

REFUSING to even question NPHET modelling or their opposition to antigen testing.

Sinn Fein are in power in the North where indoor dining is open, along with late night bars. / pubs.

is_that_so

Chivito550 wrote: »

Funny how many who were pushing "My Body, My Choice" a few years ago are now actively supporting the concept of discrimination based on vaccination. You just couldn't make it up. I'm pro vaccination, but I find this hypocrisy staggering.

This seems more about your issues with "my body, my choice".
Having a position on one thing doesn't force one to have positions on other things. People are complicated like that and tend to resist efforts to pigeonhole them and to label them hypocrites.

mcsean2163

Sleeper12 wrote: »

2nd December 2020 270 new cases.
8th January 2021 8227 new cases


We did this in slightly over 5 weeks!! What do you suppose would happen if we didn't lock down? Do you think the high numbers would have gone away on their own? Do you suppose they would have increased into the 10s of thousands predicted?

Allow me. It's summer. The vulnerable are vaccinated. People are not going home for a crowded indoor family dinner. Airport quarantine is in place.

The circumstances are not the same.

Chivito550

melekalikimaka wrote: »

alot of people here seem to know more than professionals... worrying times

Are the members of NPHET professionals in data analytics?

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0701/1232341-coronavirus-ireland/

How are Sinn Féin so high in the opinion polls with absolute rubbish like this from their ‘Up the ra’ health spokesman. The choices on the opposition bench are so poor.

“ Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Cullinane said these projections and assumptions have to be taken seriously, particularly given the difficulties the Delta variant is causing in the UK.

However, he said it is the last-minute planning by the Government that angers people, and the Government has left the hospitality sector without any plan.“

REFUSING to even question NPHET modelling or their opposition to antigen testing.

Sinn Fein are in power in the North where indoor dining is open, along with nightclubs.

Whatever about SF, nightclubs are not open in NI

mcgragger

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I could live with 2/3 weeks overcautiousness, if we had opened on the 21st/28th June there would be no outrage.

But we are basically a month behind Europe now, and with this pantomime that will play out over the next 3 weeks with the government pretending to come up with solutions it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the reopening is shifted again to August.

If the rest of Europe and UK is fine in the coming months and deaths don’t increase significantly then NPHET have cost us almost two months. At what point does that become malpractice? Like taking out a patients kidney in an appendectomy.

They aren’t only disagreeing with the majority of experts across Europe, they are overshooting their recommendations by a mile, it shows a serious brass neck to do this without fear of repercussions, all of these people should never work in the health sector again if they are proven wrong.

Its already nailed on that it will be shifted to August.
There is no hope when Hitler Holohan is in charge.
There will be a reason for shifting it again and again, and the Gov will not say no.

Fils

Sleeper12 wrote: »

2nd December 2020 270 new cases.
8th January 2021 8227 new cases


We did this in slightly over 5 weeks!! What do you suppose would happen if we didn't lock down? Do you think the high numbers would have gone away on their own? Do you suppose they would have increased into the 10s of thousands predicted?

The only numbers that nphet and Paul Reid are interested in is their bank balance.

bucketybuck

Beirut wrote: »

Please let this be the turning point... we can always dream.

Nah. Just look at post 9 for example, this is a religion to a lot of people and there is no scenario in which they will accept that they were wrong. Cases rise, they were right, cases fall, they were right.

You cannot reason yourself out of a position you did not reason yourself into.

Chivito550

is_that_so wrote: »

This seems more about your issues with "my body, my choice".
Having a position on one thing doesn't force one to have positions on other things. People are complicated like that and tend to resist efforts to pigeonhole them and to label them hypocrites.

No opinion on abortion.

No issue with somebody thinking abortion should be allowed, and vaccination mandatory.

I have an issue with the branding "My Body, My Choice". Totally hypocrisy to use that phrase for abortion and then abandon it later on. I thought the general messaging of that phrase was that each person has control over their own body. Clearly it only refers to one specific issue.

CruelSummer

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Whatever about SF, nightclubs are not open in NI

Ok fair enough. Just after double checking - all pubs are open in NI for indoor and outdoor & can remain open now until 3am.

Wibbs

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

They aren’t only disagreeing with the majority of experts across Europe, they are overshooting their recommendations by a mile, it shows a serious brass neck to do this without fear of repercussions, all of these people should never work in the health sector again if they are proven wrong.

Well that's one problem with this country and its authorities. They are almost never held to account and if they are rarely enough get any sort of penalty. Once you're in, you're in and when you leave there'll be a nice pension in it. Politicians at the top of the three are worst if all for this, but that's on us for repeatedly voting them in. Though to be fair the choices aren't exactly great or much different to each other.

TheCitizen

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

LOL. Haven’t been on this thread for ages. Ironic scaremongering in the last sentence. Through all this there’s been guff on this thread about some conspiracy to take “freedoms from the citizens etc. blah, blah.” I probably put this to posters like you who live on this thread before; why would the powers that be want to shut down society, to shut down retail businesses? They want us all working like worker bees. This conspiracy theory stuff pedalled by many on this thread is nonsensical.

Are the government being overly cautious now re opening indoor hospitality? Perhaps they are but they’re merely putting it off by another week or two by the looks of it. They’re perhaps being sluggish and incompetent and craven but what’s new there? That does not mean they’re complicit in some kind of conspiracy to deprive us of freedom etc.

is_that_so

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0701/1232341-coronavirus-ireland/

How are Sinn Féin so high in the opinion polls with absolute rubbish like this from their ‘Up the ra’ health spokesman. The choices on the opposition bench are so poor.

“ Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Cullinane said these projections and assumptions have to be taken seriously, particularly given the difficulties the Delta variant is causing in the UK.

However, he said it is the last-minute planning by the Government that angers people, and the Government has left the hospitality sector without any plan.“

REFUSING to even question NPHET modelling or their opposition to antigen testing.

Sinn Fein are in power in the North where indoor dining is open, along with nightclubs.

It's called following the crowd and even if the government are screaming blue murder over NPHET they can't do so publicly. SF are good at working angles and seeming on everyone's side. Government ain't the problem here but a lot of people believe they are so enter SF to play the reasonable party.