Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035972#Comment_118035972

What logical and understandable reasons do you personally have for not getting vaccinated? Am genuinely curious.

Derkaiser93

Id love to know what some of you nutjobs think the conspiracy and plan behind the vaccine cert is? These people who go on that we need to be brave and stop living in fear are afraid of a qr code?

I'm fascinated to see how were going to move from these certs, which are no different to any other ID or legal doc such a a passport or drivers licence, go concentration camps, authoritarian regimes etc...

These same people, had they been around during ww2, when people were ushered underground to avoid bombing raids, told to turn off their lights at night to make it hard for bomber planes to find towns, would be resting and crying about the authoritarian regimes they were living under, despite the fact they were indeed fighting against nazi Germany.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036862#Comment_118036862

Your apparently held view that you should, in the current circumstances, need proof that you have had the required medical treatments (as determined by your government) to be allowed to exercise your basic civil rights represents a sad state of affairs.

Comparisons between this and the following are not accurate:

• passports (to which you are entitled as of right based on citizenship),
• ID at a nightclub (Proof of age is available to everyone, as of right, and is checked for the purpose of restricting access to such premises to people over a certain age achieving a legitimate societal benefit),
• and driving licences - the clue is in the name - driving is in law a privilege granted to those who demonstrate they have the necessary skills, and have not had the privilege restricted due to misbehaviour)

I'm no conspiracy theorist by the way. Labeling legitimate dissenting voices as conspiracy theorists is at attempt to polarise, to win the argument by having people shouted down, and is very insulting.

Why don't you instead set out what exactly the justification for the covid pass thing is? Then we can debate that.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036915#Comment_118036915

You could start by not calling people who disagree with you names. It tends to undermine any claim of reasonable discourse you might have. Not everybody thinks like you nor follows this type of thread of logic. They are not planned as permanent impositions on people. The aim is to ensure that anybody visiting a hospitality establishment is vaccinated, theoretically to limit the potential spread of COVID, a measure forced on the government BTW by NPHET.

Some people just dislike the discriminatory nature of that, especially when some of those who are not vaccinated may not be able to get vaccinated. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036915#Comment_118036915

Comparisons between covid pass and holocaust are not appropriate*.

But fighting Covid is like fighting against nazi Germany.

It gets confusing around here.

*as I said before I think they are unnecessary and unedifying, joking aside.

Taoiseach in Sligo suggesting that physical distancing will remain beyond this Friday. That seemingly rules out 50,000 plus for both the Ireland v Portugal soccer match and the rugby autumn internationals at the Aviva. No chance of 100% capacity for outdoor and indoor events for the foreseeable, if you take MM’s comments at face value

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036862#Comment_118036862

Never had to show vaccine papers and an ID to go in somewhere to have cup of coffee or a bite to eat before this summer.

Derkaiser93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036941#Comment_118036941

Driving a car is as much of a "civil right" as going into an pub indoors. All those certs I named are "descriminatory" against different groups.... Passports against "illegal" residents, ID against youth, drivers licence and insurance all against those who cannot drive. They're all in place as mechanisms of some sort, usually as a form of safety and health.

Certain vaccinations have been required to enter some countries for a very long time way before covid also.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036511#Comment_118036511

How do covid certs protect the public health?

They don't fully eliminate transmission, the country is already 92% vaccinated, instead of stating that as a fact please explain exactly what you mean by "measures in place to protect the public health".

Or don't if you wish, but your point won't hold much weight if you can't even show the basics.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036989#Comment_118036989

I presume your talking that from RTE. Wouldn't be like them to not give the actual quote... he was asked about whats under consideration and he gave the standard answer that's been given for the last few days. Nothing extra was given away

Here's the quote,

Speaking to reporters in Sligo on Monday, he said: “The continuation of the Covid certs is certainly an item on the agenda as is mask wearing and so on."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037007#Comment_118037007

I've already said why your so-called comparators are not valid (in my view of course).

Just to reiterate, driving is not a civil right. It's a privilege granted to people who demonstrate they can drive, and have not been disqualified. Proof of your age is available as of right. The only other one you mentioned was passports. Again available as of right based on citizenship.

The question was, how do you justify retaining this Covid pass thing in the current circumstances in Ireland. Is your answer seriously "because it seems to me it's a bit like some other things that are not encroachments on civil liberties/everyone puts up with"?

It's very notable that you put civil right in quotation marks. These are important things that should not lightly be interfered with.

Derkaiser93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036990#Comment_118036990

But you have to show papers to drive a car or go abroad or go into a nightclub. Why is that okay and not causing you to hyperventilate your whole life?

showpony1

what does Michael mean by examining use of antigen testing? they are going to ask locals to set up a tent outside to test vaccinated people? surely just won't happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037014#Comment_118037014

yep got that info from RTE via Teresa Mannion who was there in that Taoiseach presser in Sligo.

landofthetree

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1450106549934993414

So it looks like no normal pubs till next April or May.

Time to start booking weekends and New year's abroad.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037025#Comment_118037025

It sounds like a set of nothing is ruled in or out comments. TBH it depends on how grim the next NPHET presentation model is!

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037021#Comment_118037021

Who's hyperventilating?

I haven't had to show an ID to get into a bar or a club since I was in college. I also actually don't have to show anyone papers to drive my car - in my 15 years driving I've never once been stopped and had to show my license, albeit I have it on me. If I go for a cup of tea however, I have to show someone my ID, give my phone number and confirm my vaccine status.

It's mad you think these are the same things. Just mad. I'm curious, who do you show your papers to before hopping into your car and driving somewhere?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037021#Comment_118037021

Showing a driving license or ID does not carry a risk of side-effects or death alongside it, unless you get a deadly papercut from your passport.

Covid19 vaccines carry a very small risk of same. As does covid too of course, however in either case its not comparable at all to a driving license or photo ID. But I suspect you know this, you are just arguing because you are an ideologue.

Der Kaiser, aptly named.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037035#Comment_118037035

****

Once again us doom merchants prove correct.

tiredblondie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037021#Comment_118037021

But you don't have to show papers to drive your car in a day to day life - i don't think other than NCT i have ever had to show my license to anyone!

To go into a nightclub, i've not had to show papers of any description for 20 years!!

Showing my passport to go on a plane is the only thing i've had to do in many many many years!!

Derkaiser93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037018#Comment_118037018

It may not be the most ideal measure to reduce transmission, but vaccinated individuals in mass are less likely to catch and therefore spread and therefore catch the virus. People talk about 90 plus per cent of adults being vaxxed but in the age group who go to night clubs etc, they're of much younger age where the take up is down to about 60 or 70% so you will find more unvaxxed in these places than you expect, driving Transmission and caseloads. But also I imagine it will be used also to coerce more of the unvaxxed.

My point though is directed at individuals on here comparing these to showing your papers in nazi Germany and stars of David.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037046#Comment_118037046

Wheres the announcement??

Oh wait there hasn't been one. Relax yourself for a minute, what was said in Sligo is nothing that wasn't said in the last few days. There was literally no new information given, read the quotes

Is it that hard for you to wait for an actual announcement of something before losing your s**t

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037014#Comment_118037014

Not sure where he's getting his info from but RTE are not specifically saying distancing is to be maintained

At the moment outdoor events are at 75% capacity so there's not much physical distancing going on there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037035#Comment_118037035

The faint hope I cling onto is that they would ditch the Covid pass in place of a negative antigen test. That would have a degree of proportionality to it, and the exclusion would be linked directly to a positive test therefore logic. It would also serve the purpose of bringing antigen testing into people's daily routines, which would be very beneficial.

But people will fake antigen tests, I hear you cry.

Well, the same person who would do that would be out there circulating albeit they're fully vaccinated in any event. I'm happy that enough people are sensible enough to react appropriately to a positive test result.

*do remember that NPHET said antigen tests were "snake oil" when next you have occasion to consider their position on anything.

Gael23

No problem with the covid pass staying if it means everything else goes ahead

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037080#Comment_118037080

RTE are suggesting it based on this quote given to reporters

"The continuation of the Covid certs is certainly an item on the agenda as is mask wearing and so on"

There's literally nothing in there that hasn't been said in the last few days

And right on queue RTE actually put up the proper article where he doesn't say anything about distancing

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1450111159131066376?t=dlHm1aPmXuYuybYfIFaokA&s=19

Derkaiser93

I'm not replying to all the individual replies I got but a couple of people there claimed they haven't been asked for this or that ID in certain places. But that's your individual experience. Most nightclubs check your ID if you're young enough looking. Whether your licence has been checked or not is irrelevant. It's a legal mandate. Many people have not had their covid certs checked in any pubs etc they've gone too and in fact bragged about it on here.

Ozvaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036989#Comment_118036989

That's Meholes opinion he's not running the country ciivil servants working from home in their pyjamas are

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037061#Comment_118037061

To be fair, the group you're focusing on have a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny (non-zero) prospect of becoming seriously ill and ending up in hospital never mind ICU. They can't rationally be a priority target in terms of coercing vaccination or in terms of becoming a "disproportionate burden".

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037061#Comment_118037061

I see what you are saying but the age group that go to nightclubs don't tend to get severe covid either so are less of a burden on our health service