Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036035#Comment_118036035

They are determined to deflect on any notion the outbreak occurred at the school and the principal begged to differ.

If the principal spoke of education matters one would heed them but not sure this is anything more than an opinion.

It's not the first time this has happened and fairly unsurprising. There were outbreaks last year which started out in the community and spread to a variety of other locations including schools. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035993#Comment_118035993

Oh dear. It seems you should have stuck with the one-liners.

Your post described the right to exercise some basic freedoms as a reward (for getting vaccinated). That's what was scary - the fact that you would apparently think like that. I don't know how you took from my post that I was scared of catching Covid (I would not like to catch Covid mind you) because nothing I said conveyed that.

Of course, in this later post you acknowledge (unknowingly maybe - if you understood what you were saying in the earlier post) that we are talking about restrictions, not rewards. You then go on to ask why we shouldn't impose these restrictions on people who don't "join the fight against the virus".

The answer is, restrictions such as this should be imposed where there is a clear benefit in practical terms. Not as a purely moral/punitive measure. If you can't point to a clear benefit by imposing this restriction, you can't justify it and it should therefore not be imposed.

To engage further with your post, who is the arbiter of when someone has adequately "joined the fight against the vaccine"? You could be vaccinated, but behave entirely irresponsibly - would that be a right-minded basis on which to revoke your pass? By your logic, it would be.

hotmail.com

The principal said most of the children were asymptomatic.

Christ tonight. And they close the school over this.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036060#Comment_118036060

Again principal didn't close the school, the BOM did and it would seem after becoming exasperated in its dealing with the HSE, I've no opinion wether the decision right or wrong but 30 cases, surely must be a concern for any parent.

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035886#Comment_118035886

The French? Where they already have mandatory childhood vaccines? Strange of them to pick and choose what they kick up a fuss about.

https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036037#Comment_118036037

Ahh come on, even if it was 2019, a school closing for any health reason is going to be news in Ireland.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035999#Comment_118035999

If nothing changes, what will your message of defiance be?

Corby Trouser Press

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036075#Comment_118036075

The lesson here is always follow the public health advice unless the public health advice is seeming to lessen the seriousness of COVID.

Then you have carte blanche to do whatever the hell you like.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036075#Comment_118036075

Really? Maybe a line on local radio.

Another week and RTE wouldn't give this story the time of day.

At no stage did the principal even discuss how the children are. We can assume from that they are fine. This is a non story and made worse by a drama queen principal.

Corby Trouser Press

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036101#Comment_118036101

And any problems you create by reacting / over reacting to a COVID issue are not problems at all as long as they don't result in the spread of COVID.

Arse covered.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036075#Comment_118036075

Two schools were told to reopen last year by the DOE as there was no public health approval for their decisions. The same may happen here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-school-concerned-about-outbreak-ordered-to-reopen-1.4434177

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036101#Comment_118036101

I tend to agree but when that advice is muddled and all over the place is it any wonder the BOM made the decision, again, I'm not a parent, wether the decision right or wrong, I can't say but looking from the outside in, it's certainly a confused picture.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036101#Comment_118036101

Yes and in this case, they decided to close the school and go on RTE radio to blab about it.

I'm certain this is being dealt with more discretely elsewhere. We are trying to move on.

Richard Hillman

We are seeing around Europe that people are now being refused access to grocery stores because of their vaccinated status. The German state of Hesse are doing it.

Don't for a second believe they don't have hopes for this here and if booster uptake isnt what they feel is sufficient, that they wont relinquish your "privileges" if you don't take the boosters 1, 2, 3 etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036076#Comment_118036076

People are more comfortable around injections/treatments that have been around a long time - it's just human nature. There are loads of people reluctant to get this one, and trying to coerce them into it does not work. If anything I suspect it's counter-productive.

Rebelbrowser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035972#Comment_118035972

Are we allowed ask what your reason is? No obligation to reply obviously but would like to try to understand it.

To be candid, save where there's a good reason (eg. an objectively justified medical reason not to get the vaccine) I'm of the Jurgen Klopp view. Not getting vaccinated would be fine if the decision only affected the decision maker. But it doesn't. It affects the person(s) you become more likely to infect, the health worker who has to to deal with disproportionate amounts of unvaccinated persons who test positive, the outpatient whose procedure is delayed because the hospital is too busy - to which you again contribute disproportionately, the businesses that are impeded by the additional covid measures your decision necessitates, and so forth. Jurgen used the driving after a few drinks analogy and he is right. It's not just you that you are endangering (fine if it was), it's everyone else too. And before anyone says the obvious, I speak on a macro level - of course the increaded risk per person is quite small (eg., to continue with the analogy, most drink drivers don't crash) but over a large amount of people (370,000 we are told), the increased risk is significant, (eg. If you have 370,000 people drink driving there will inevitably be a large amount of accidents).

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036014#Comment_118036014

I had a quick look at the RTE News website to see the full blown frenzy. Couldn't find anything remotely frenzy-ish, nevermind full blown.

hotmail.com

Eileen Dunne will never retire her Stay Safe sign off now. We gotta keep the misery going.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036102#Comment_118036102

A bit like the president calling in this morning to discuss the death of two poet's? Line actually died also,

I'm no fan of RTE, they are all over the place on this topic but as others have said, if this was 2019 a school closing because of any health related matter would be reported on. The principal also clearly stated she has no medical expertise.

As an aside, RTE also reporting Colin Powell has just died ( dare I mention the cause) RIP

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036149#Comment_118036149

Yeah no mention of his lying to the UN about weapons in Iraq. His main legacy.

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036125#Comment_118036125

Well there's a significant cohort that wont listen to reason or facts either. 6 Billion vaccines given worldwide, thankfully there's a lot of people with common sense in the world.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036162#Comment_118036162

In fairness it was a quick breaking news item.

bear1

Whatever about what and how the Government has reacted, I would also argue that the media has a **** tonne to answer for.

They've done their fair share of damage too and scaremongering.

They have not in any way questioned those of authority, never once raised questions as to why people who don't have any authority are tweeting things which are contrary to Government advice etc etc.

They have lapped up everything, not once showed any courage to ask the important questions or push politicians and those in the health service to back up their claims (July's we are all going to die statements from nphet), instead they've pushed and rammed down the populations throats how crap everything is and we need to be careful non-stop for the rest of eternity.

And they get millions from us for this every year, it's a fuckin joke. Absolutely spineless.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036141#Comment_118036141

This is really an argument for people who agree with him and you. Like Klopp, you clearly have no idea why these people don't want to get vaccinated. I don't either BTW. Some of them may not be in a position to be vaccinated, through their own physical conditions. Within that group of 370,000, you have 70,000 with one shot and some may have had such adverse reactions to the first vaccination that they were advised not to get a second one.

For now a lot of this data seems to be unknown but it doesn't stop people opening both barrels on a group who have made their own personal choice, even if it’s one that really annoys a lot of people.  I take the view now we've had 93%, which is very impressive, rather than focus on the 7% that we may never see vaccinated. 

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035424#Comment_118035424

Oh dear...."some of YOU PEOPLE ".......untermenschen perhaps ?

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036201#Comment_118036201

What?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036141#Comment_118036141

I appreciate and understand your views regarding the decision of those who chose not to get a covid-19 vaccination. You're entitled to them.

But are these indoor dining restrictions to be justified on some moral/punitive basis? I don't think any exists that isn't extremely threatening on a wider but fundamental front.

Is it a practical/tangible benefit basis? Surely common sense tells us that retaining this measure will not have a sufficient impact on the spread of the disease to justify it.

Is it that by restricting access to participation in society we will coerce them to get vaccinated? Then we are back to the moral issue. Further, it's being attempted by the backdoor as opposed to in plain sight by passing mandatory vaccination laws, which (and I could be wrong about this), I don't believe would attract general support.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035897#Comment_118035897

Terryfiying it may well be,however it serves to underline just how easy it is to mould & direct the responses of previously normal,intelligent contributors to functional society and turn them into a monitor and judge of other lesser mortals who do not fit their mould.

Sadly,this die is now long cast,particularly in Western Europe.

The hoary old notion of the "rebellious Irish" has been well & truly laid to rest by the Covid-19 EMERGENCY.

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035486#Comment_118035486

Can you show where the conspiracy theory is? You suggested a misread of developers intentions - I contend it’s very possible the intent was very possibly to provide for a replacement of the old vaccine passport system. So, maybe not a misread or a lack of understanding of the development process?

’What governments do with it is separate’ - yes, pretty much what I said?

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036268#Comment_118036268

I'm sorry, I have to ask, genuinely what do you think the motivations of NPHET/the Government/senior medics are? Do you think Tony Holohan has a nefarious reason for the introduction of Covid certs or the Covid restrictions? Same as Leo/Michael?