Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

pgj2015

I heard someone representing the NTA on Newstalk earlier today, she was saying the they are increasing the capacity on public transport from 50% to 75% next week. This doesn't seem like a great idea does it?

Amadan Dubh

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622596#Comment_117622596

This is the interesting thing. Offices are talking of getting people back in the next 6 weeks. But to get people back we'd need to see 100% capacity on public transport and social distancing rules completely done away with. Otherwise, how would people get to work on public transport? Especially with schools and colleges going back in a September too. We can't even sit inside a cafe or a pub or restaurant and won't be able to, without a vaccine, for another month probably, yet public transport could be packed and there won't be any requirement to do any social distancing anymore just 2 weeks after one can sit inside a pub or cafe again normally?

Either Delta is a cause for concern, with cases on an unstoppable rise to hitting thousands per day in August, or it isn't. But it isn't consistent to put out awareness on the rapid increase in Delta cases and how it is a worry, while at the same time allowing public transport to increase capacity and allow offices to try to get people back in in just a few weeks! So the Delta awareness media campaign is just a tactic to get younger people to take a vaccine or else public transport, employers and colleges/schools need to start preparing for reduced capacity right through the autumn and winter.

stephenjmcd

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622596#Comment_117622596

Was agreed about a week ago by Government on public health advice. 75% from Monday and full capacity in August is the plan

Loafing Oaf

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622037#Comment_117622037

Wow, who knew Mattie McGrath had been posting on boards all these years?😝

MOH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620882#Comment_117620882

Well, if you're going to insist on making this more irritating ...

3 weeks after the story you linked to, Leo Varadkar, backed up on the figures the next day by Ronan Glynn, proclaimed that it would be very difficult/extremely lucky to keep figures below 500-600 per day due the horrendously more transmissible Alpha variant. A week later figures were below 500 where they remained for months, hitting a low of under 300 during the period I referenced in my actual original post. As opposed to the one you mangled yet again to suit the irrelevant point you're trying to make for some reason.

But hey, peace man. Again, you do you, I really don't care beyond you deliberately misquoting, truncating, and misrepresenting my points to try to reassure yourself. I totally understand why you're doing it. But I'm politely asking you to take a step back and realise that if you think you have a point, that's best made by a cohesive counter argument, rather than "look bro I found a twig in Bray from 1974 that proves you wrong about your arboreal thesis submitted to DCU in 2003, based on tree growth in Finglas from 2001-2002 (inclusive)".

Amadan Dubh

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622657#Comment_117622657

That does not seem to tally with the narrative that the next few weeks at least are going to be bleak with respect to cases and the Delta variant. Surge capacity in ICU is apparently being built up for something that could happen in the next few weeks but at the same time public transport is increasing capacity to facilitate less social distancing and more movement. Honestly I don't buy the Delta variant narrative in this context as the easing of restrictions would not be happening if it really was going to be such an issue.

Wolf359f

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622701#Comment_117622701

Would it not be a case of building up surge capacity to treat a potential peak of 200 people in ICU all the while the economy reopens and people get back to living. Worst case 200 end up in ICU and the economy gets by, best case, the peak is substantially less (going by Scotland data) and the economy gets by.

Or what would you do? Lockdown?

Maybe the UK are on to something, being on the precipitous of herd immunity, rather than lockdown, you make sure the vulnerable are protected and motor on? I mean looking at Scotland.... it's possible.

Adrian.Sadlier

Guys, A few simple (simplistic?) observations,

Excess mortality for 2020 non existent (look at published CSO statistics for the last 5 years).

PCR tests in Ireland (and most of Europe) running at 40-45 cycles. Revised (upwards) WHO recommendation, 30 cycles. Above 30 cycles introduces significant false positives.

Official deaths from Covid-19 include anybody tested positive for Coiv-19 in previous 28 days - Cancer, Heart Attacks, Stroke, Traffic accidents, murder, suicide, or any other reason - all counted as Covid-19.

Virtually no "flu" infections reported in last 18 months! How come a virus that has existed for over 100+ years suddenly disappeared? Don't use the excuse of lockdown preventing it - an airborne viral infection cannot be eliminated because of lockdown and facemasks. Just like Covid-19.

Daily statistics published by HSE , NPHET and MSM tell us how many in Hospital have tested positive for Covid-19. They do not tell us how many are hospitalized because of Covid-19.

Mortality rates tell us how many died with Covid-19. They do not tell us how many died of Covid-19. Hospitals are one of the highest places of initial infection. These are critical statistics. Why are they not published?

Daily mortality rates are no longer published. Because it does not suit the official narrative. Daily cases are reported, using a testing regime that is beyond the recommendation of the WHO and the official HSE guidelines.

Covid-19 exists. People are dying from it. These are facts.

But how many are dying from it and not underlying causes? Every year, the elderly and those with underlying conditions die from the flu and many other health issues. Why is there no statistical analysis and comparison of this versus Covid-19?

Why have so many of us suspended our ability for critical analysis?

Have we all become sheeople?

Penfailed

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622796#Comment_117622796

This reads like a cut and paste from a Facebook post.

agoodpunt

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622872#Comment_117622872

Anything negative is managed to hide detail to help justify highest level worldwide restrictions only positive allowable data is vaccines.

So any information dosent tally with the forever restrictions group and media sod off

JTMan

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622631#Comment_117622631

Indeed. Difficult to see how in 6 weeks time, that we will be in a position for a full reopening of schools, colleges, offices and maximum capacity on public transport. If this goes ahead you can bet that Covid case numbers will soar again as well as RSV (soaring in the US), flu and bugs (soaring in the UK).

I think we should ...

• Start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds asap so they can be fully vaccinated before school reopens. Maybe the Romanian doses can be mainly directed to this age group.
• Give realistic guidance to businesses now. Extended the work from 'home where possible' restriction until October (giving the Delta wave time to receded and the vaccination programme time to fully conclude) and set a maximum indoor capacity in offices for Winter with full reopening after Winter.
• Make it clear that the mask mandate will be extended in indoor offices, colleges, transport, shops until after Winter.

Announcements need to be made soon on what is going to happen with office re-openings and vaccinating teenagers.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622796#Comment_117622796

All you now need is a tinfoil hat

JRant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622913#Comment_117622913

Why would fully vaccinated people have to wear masks in offices all day?

Why would numbers on capacity have to be reduced when there's a very good chance the vast majority will have at least one vaccine in a few weeks?

At some stage we need to start getting back to a normal life.

Ballynally

I am one of those people caught between two forces. On the top there is the group, call it TH et al, finding and highlighting just about any data that supports the maintaining of the high levels of public fear.

On the bottom side the serious Covid19 deniers doing the exact same thing looking at it from the opposite side.To me they are the same coin.

I just hear them spouting 'facts' to try and underpin their position. 'The Science' says etc. I am still amazed about the amount of ignorance displayed. In the proper way there are data points derived by the scientific method to indicate a corrolation or causation between them, opening up a line of inquiry. One can derive a hypothesis, an opinion if you will about the meaning of this. Then there is a whole and separate discussion, in this case the SarsCov2 pandemic about the value of that opinion and the potential action taken to mitigate the damage.

Most people conflate the two, having no idea about the difference between Science and the scientific method, between Gaussian and Bayesian analysis. Still, they grab 'facts' to fight their corner being absolute certain of their 'truth'.

I had one of those encounters in the village square yesterday. Two people on the anti-vax,no masks, it's all a lie bandwagon with leaflets of 'facts' getting in my face about the damage i had done to my body w the vaccinations.

I tried to get them to loosen up and look at things fr a bird's eye perspective while at the same time accepting their right of opinion if they could accept mine.

But no, the bit between their teeth. No way they were going to let go of their anger. FACTS in capital letters thrown in my face.

Then i went home and watched the RTE news and George Lee. Basically the same thing. A message to push/sell.

As far as i am concerned both sides are in the same sales department, at opposite sides.well, im not buying your ****.sorry. i get the feeling more and more people are getting weary of the sales pitch and try to enjoy the summer as much as they can.

'The FACTS are' is wrong, 'the facts suggest' is right. Unfortunately the distinction is lost on most people..

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622195#Comment_117622195

Even the most pessimistic of NPHET projections don't go anywhere near that and vaccinations will more strongly influence that. At about 70% fully done by the end of July there won't be all that many to infect. Hospital cases are the only thing to be concerned abut now.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623061#Comment_117623061

Why are you bothering with what other people do? You're just generating unnecessary mental stress for yourself. Leave them to it and find other things to talk about.

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623077#Comment_117623077

That is a good point were it not that the people i met wouldnt leave me alone w their **** while waiting for the bus.

And yes, i can chose not to see the RTE news. That is however not the point i was trying to make.

I was mainly seeing the 2 opposites selling their wares. it does not generate much mental stress for myself apart fr the trepidation the fear might lead to extra restrictions. In my case not being able to fly to Holland on july 21 and/or having to quarantine. It is not just getting irritated when TH and others put their 'message' to the people of Ireland but any action a 'concerned' government might take.

Amadan Dubh

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622796#Comment_117622796

We do know deaths. 12 in June and 2 in July. Around 120 per year now we are looking at. Why? Vaccines work and the over 50s are vaccinated.

Multipass

Headline on RTE this morning made me laugh:

’Delta surge threatens progress as Dáil recess begins’

That just about sums up the insanity of this whole thing.

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622872#Comment_117622872

Ever heared the saying: "dont let facts get in the way of a good story"? Maybe that should be changed into: 'dont let counter facts spoil a good story'.

Is there such a thing as 'the facts'? No, there are other facts possibly contradicting them. In a way by picking yr facts and leaving out others you create a narrative.

It is ironic to me that the people hammering on about THE FACTS are the same ones least likely to shift even a milimeter.

I must say i have changed my mind quite a bit during these pandemic times.

Stay skeptical and examine your bias..

The cut and paste fr Facebook thing is such a common thing. As if they have all read the same manual and go to war w the opposition never questioning the data ever again. In the trenches, any ammo will do..

funnydoggy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623166#Comment_117623166

No objections to their recess.

Off on their holibobs while they warn us that the bogeyman is coming.

franciscanpunk

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623062#Comment_117623062

tbh i didnt look at the nphet projections as i just assume they'll soon change.

I hope it goes nowhere 5000 as the media will have a field day pushing fear, George Lee will be like a kid at xmas!

Looking at it very simply if it grow exponentially the numbers can get up there very quick but obv restricted also by the number of tests done.

AlekSmart

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622701#Comment_117622701

The ongoing ICU provision issue remains,almost 18 Months later,unaddressed. Few Irish Media outlets have bothered referencing the HSE's OWN 2009 report ( https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/clinical-strategy-and-programmes/towards-excellence-in-critical-care-report.pdf ) which,amongst other recommendations,said this....RECOMMENDATIONSR3. The number of critical care beds should be increased by 45% from 289 to 418 beds. This will need to increase sequentially to 579 over the period 2010to 2020.

Equally interecting,is the fact revealed Current Situation Snapshot –Number and Configuration of BedsThere are 289 funded, open, critical care beds in Ireland 13% of critical care beds are situated in units which also contain coronary care beds Both early (unplanned) and delayed discharges are common to most critical care unitsIn June 2008 278patients were refused admission to critical careIn June 2008 20% of HDU beds were providing ICU (Level 3) care

So....after 13 years,and now a Pandemic,Irish Health Adminstration remains as it was at the beginning. They never came CLOSE to those 579 Beds,whilst at the same time we have increased the HSE budget from c.€14 BILLION to the current €20.6 BILLION.

Pandemics do what they always have done,target the unprepared,the ailing and the very young/old with deadly effect,the remainder of humanity suffer largely recoverable effects and get on with living,like it or not.

What is NOT being addressed,or even referenced,is the Pandemic of Incompetence,lack of proffessionalism and empire building rampant within our Health Service Administration at the highest levels,up to and including Government.

Covid-19 is not going to lay waste to little Ireland or indeed the Human Race,but the reality of a Not Fit For Purpose Health System will definitely cull vast numbers of innocent people over the same period.☹️

Downlinz

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622037#Comment_117622037

Divide and conquer is a common strategy used by governments all the time and for matters of varying significance. We saw it during the water charge protests for example when they unsuccessfully tried to vilify the protestors in an attempt to turn the masses against them and towards tolerance of what the government were trying to pull.

We may be seeing it again with vaccine passports but it's not particularly unusual or sinister to warrant Nazi comparisons.

AlekSmart

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623429#Comment_117623429

The issue of Media,both here and abroad,being firmly aligned with the promotion of FEAR is one of those things which I feel will eventually need to be researched and reported upon. The rather sudden suspension of Investigative journalism,in favour of State "briefings" looms large over the Jounralistic ethos debate in the Western World.The virtual shutdown of reportage covering ANY narrative which did'nt fully comply with "Official" lines remains oddly in place. RTE and Irish Journalists generally, have not been far removed from the 1975 Pythonesque depiction of plague & pestilence........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcbR1J_4ICg&ab_channel=Browningate

JRant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623646#Comment_117623646

Look at the incredible brazenness of the US press secretary stating that they were working with Facebook and other social media platforms to have "problematic" posts and users banned from all platforms.

Instead of getting more positive information out regarding vaccines they have now decided that they and they along are the arbiters of what is and isn't allowed to be posted. Quite incredible what's happening to western democracies since this pandemic started.

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623780#Comment_117623780

That makes sense. They had a succesful trial run during the Trump presidency, BLM etc. Democrats in the saddle, left leaning tech companies in line. Pharmaceutical companies (i was banned fr this forum for using the full name of the abbreviated BP), corrupt health boards local and international (WHO), media complying.

Winning formula, wouldnt you say?

It has gotten so bad i cannot have a meaningful conversation about the pandemic without having to chose between two teams.

This binary thinking is getting worse..

But then again, there is Joe Rogan..

hatrickpatrick

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623589#Comment_117623589

Couldn't agree more with this, and if this isn't ruthlessly tackled once the pandemic is over, we need prolonged, unrelenting protests about it.

corkonion

Its a pity the promised 1000000 Romanian Pfizer doses was just more bull by our government, they clearly had only a casual conversation and no deal was completed. If it had happened, all these conversations would be irrelevant now

SecondLife

I do not know if this is right place to ask but anyone knows if Boots or randox are giving pcr test results with QR codes now?