Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Downlinz

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622037#Comment_117622037

Divide and conquer is a common strategy used by governments all the time and for matters of varying significance. We saw it during the water charge protests for example when they unsuccessfully tried to vilify the protestors in an attempt to turn the masses against them and towards tolerance of what the government were trying to pull.

We may be seeing it again with vaccine passports but it's not particularly unusual or sinister to warrant Nazi comparisons.

AlekSmart

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623429#Comment_117623429

The issue of Media,both here and abroad,being firmly aligned with the promotion of FEAR is one of those things which I feel will eventually need to be researched and reported upon. The rather sudden suspension of Investigative journalism,in favour of State "briefings" looms large over the Jounralistic ethos debate in the Western World.The virtual shutdown of reportage covering ANY narrative which did'nt fully comply with "Official" lines remains oddly in place. RTE and Irish Journalists generally, have not been far removed from the 1975 Pythonesque depiction of plague & pestilence........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcbR1J_4ICg&ab_channel=Browningate

JRant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623646#Comment_117623646

Look at the incredible brazenness of the US press secretary stating that they were working with Facebook and other social media platforms to have "problematic" posts and users banned from all platforms.

Instead of getting more positive information out regarding vaccines they have now decided that they and they along are the arbiters of what is and isn't allowed to be posted. Quite incredible what's happening to western democracies since this pandemic started.

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623780#Comment_117623780

That makes sense. They had a succesful trial run during the Trump presidency, BLM etc. Democrats in the saddle, left leaning tech companies in line. Pharmaceutical companies (i was banned fr this forum for using the full name of the abbreviated BP), corrupt health boards local and international (WHO), media complying.

Winning formula, wouldnt you say?

It has gotten so bad i cannot have a meaningful conversation about the pandemic without having to chose between two teams.

This binary thinking is getting worse..

But then again, there is Joe Rogan..

hatrickpatrick

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623589#Comment_117623589

Couldn't agree more with this, and if this isn't ruthlessly tackled once the pandemic is over, we need prolonged, unrelenting protests about it.

corkonion

Its a pity the promised 1000000 Romanian Pfizer doses was just more bull by our government, they clearly had only a casual conversation and no deal was completed. If it had happened, all these conversations would be irrelevant now

SecondLife

I do not know if this is right place to ask but anyone knows if Boots or randox are giving pcr test results with QR codes now?

Hego Damask

I posted on the travel forum that UK will still need quaranteen and tests for fully vaccinated travellers from France.

astounding, so it seems the UK govt. are anti vaxxers - that's a turn up for the books!!

Concretejungle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624097#Comment_117624097

You could ring them up and ask them. Probably the best answer.

Dickie10

How is scotland faring with hospital and icu numbers the last few days? surely we can tell a lot about the next few weeks from them and ther expernce with delta? any word on India this weather?

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624130#Comment_117624130

I saw that too.Governments in general seem to make these sudden moves from time to time. This one because of some variant whose prevalence they are not even sure about.

You would like to be a fly on the wall when these things are discussed in government circles. This move to have fully vaccinated people quarantined without a thorough assessment (or so it seems) runs so contrary to the lifting of most restrictions that you have to question the sanity of those in charge. All the UKs official talk about the importance of vaccination and the freedom it gives can now just be dismissed.

If a caveat can appear out of nowhere anything can happen at any moment.

Maybe its all because of what happened w Delta in the UK (and then throughout the EU) and the 3 week unrestricted flight liberty fr India.

Adrian.Sadlier

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623146#Comment_117623146

The point I was making with regards to the mortality figures is that MSM no longer report them in the headlines every day. Why, because they are so low and do not fit the official narrative of creating fear. People need information to make informed decisions. Such as hopitalisation figures for people admitted because of Covid-19 and not just the total number in hospital with Covid-19 - there is a significant difference between these two statistics. Also, daily deaths should show the number of people who died because of Covid-19, not just those who died with Covid-19. Many coroners have begun to reverse findings of certification of death as Covid-19. Unfortunately, these inquests take too long for people to use the information now. I am sure you have heard the expression "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". Our government and NPHET certainly have. Why are so many afraid of informed debate?

Adrian.Sadlier

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622950#Comment_117622950

And you need to remove your blindfold, research and make an informed judgement. Your comment is typical of those incapable of arguing the facts. Just like our politicians, if you can't discredit someone's argument, you discredit them. Such an intellectually lazy approach is a dis-service to yourself.

Adrian.Sadlier

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622872#Comment_117622872

Please refer to answer to raind.

prunudo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624898#Comment_117624898

Your first mistake was assuming they want us to make informed decisions. After 18 months its clear they, or certainly the cmo, thinks we are all idiots and not to be trusted to make our own risk assessments or mature enough to act accordingly.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624912#Comment_117624912

The pcr misrepresentation alone has been debunked hundreds of times on this thread alone. Disproving the same nonsense arguments day after day is tedious in the extreme

Penfailed

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624916#Comment_117624916

Please refer to Raind's reply to you.

brickster69

The French certainly know how to do a demo.

https://twitter.com/DAVIDOD50/status/1416491728073338882

martingriff

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624927#Comment_117624927

Are we because Christmas would have proved otherwise

Don't Chute!

Ridiculous article in the Irish Times today about a cluster that happened in a restaurant in Dublin back in December 2020. Basically telling us to be quiet and accept indoor dining is dangerous and this is what will happen again if it’s opened up. She even says in her opening that “we tell the story not to be alarmist” so they are just **** trolling us at this stage. I’m sure all the articles about clusters in care homes and hospitals will be along any minute now right? Right?

Hego Damask

Meanwhile indoor dining been going on in Spain since January and no spikes from it - and before the lockdown fetishists start shouting look at spain now , the outbreaks now are from the young teens/20s out partying hopping all over each other - nothing to do with restaurants.

Dyr

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625658#Comment_117625658

Unlike us lot, the French have a pair, which makes it harder for their government and the EU to ride roughshod over them.

Solobally8

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624097#Comment_117624097

There was a QR code on our antigen test from Randox last week.

Dont know what it was for though. We were flying to Spain so it was the QR code on the Spanish locator app that was scanned on entry

RoversCeltic

i have a sports club meeting organized indoors for Friday -is it allowed?

Adrian.Sadlier

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625108#Comment_117625108

Touché!

But being serious, the guidelines for interpreting PCR tests using a high Ct value/low viral load are quite complicated https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/algorithms/PCR%20weak%20results%20guidance.pdf

Where people tested are asymptomatic and have a positive result, with a high Ct/low viral load result, they should be retested, within a one to two day period, before being classified as potentially infectious. I have not heard of a single case of this scenario. As the focus on test results is on symptomatic individuals ("Patients who are most seriously ill and in hospital will get their results first" - HSE) most asymptomatic individuals will take longer than 2 days to get their results.

Basically, I believe that the HSE is not an efficient organisation. And is hence incapable of doing this. Which results in these individuals being classified as positive. It is a complicated area and your and Raind's response is, I believe, reflective of exposure to too many real tinfoil hat wearers, resulting in an almost Pavlovian reaction to anyone who disagrees with the official line.

I enjoy dialectical argument, and learn and modify my beliefs accordingly. I abhor dismissive, knee jerk reactions to a hypothesis that is contrary to someone's currently held beliefs.

This, I believe, is the real problem. We appear to have lost the ability to have reasoned, respectful debate. Debate involves exploring conflicting opinions and differing interpretations of facts. And I see little of that in parts of this thread (and elsewhere). Emotive, disparaging (and often personally insulting) retorts, and outright dismission of opposing beliefs, seems to be more common.

I am not surprised. But I am disappointed. My personal experience on Boards has up until now, been limited to the Photography forum. Perhaps I have been spoiled by the more considered approach of the posters there!

Penfailed

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625875#Comment_117625875

The same French who had travel restrictions where you had to show papers and had curfews?

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625944#Comment_117625944

The invocation of reasoned debate is usually more than a hint of a lack of reasoned debate. You seem to have a lot of very fixed notions about many things including a propensity to bloviate to other posters on the art of debate. That in itself is a lack of respect. That you are not surprised and almost instantly disappointed suggests little interest in dialectics.

As for your beef with PCR , asymptomatics and all the rest, it has been done to death and the system is run by people far more knowledgeable than posters imagine themselves to be. These questions are also no longer relevant in any way to where we are and TBH if you feel they are you might want to reflect on these reasoned positions of yours.

OwenM

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626480#Comment_117626480

"By people far more knowledgeable..." Appeal to authority, really? PCR is the gold standard, we've been told this ad nauseum, but it's still a **** standard in the same way biting on a stick was the gold standard for anaesthesia in the middle ages

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626524#Comment_117626524

They do what we want them to do; find symptomatic cases. If you have a better gold standard I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

Ballynally

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626539#Comment_117626539

Careful w those gold standards. They might go up or down in value. As regards PCR tests, they are both more reliable AND less reliable depending on the amount of cycles used in the test. They have the ability to trace more virus particles but the downside is that they also create false positives the higher the CT with remnants/particles of the virus in the blood detected long after both the replication and infection phase. As SarsCov2 runs out of steam after roughly 10 days the remaining particles in the blood are not causing any infection and do not replicate and the immune system keeps working on getting rid of them. Harmless as they are, clotting and other issues aside, the PCR test w a high CT will likely turn positive even when you are unsymptomatic w NO viral load in your respiratory tract and NO shedding, ie, not infectious in any way.

After the infectious and replication phase the immune system itself might cause more damage leading to auto immune issues, nothing to do w the virus itself. Organising pneumonia due to the immune system going haywire, for instance.

So, PCR test is a Gold Standard. However, application is a key factor.

Of course health bodies love them. Less people through the door.

In many cases an antigen test will be a more practical solution. Yes, some infections will be missed because of the time frame but if they can be done quickly the more uptake and a larger catchment area. Nothing is 100%. We are in the realm of practical effectiveness.

Other countries are further ahead.