Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

Hurrache wrote: »

Jesus Christ, this thread has always been dipping its toes in farce but has really crapped itself with this. It's like people only discovered Johnson today during his press conference.

Watched that and from the statement today - looks like he's decided to turn the clock back to March 2020 and let things run their course. I don't know if he plans any bodies piled high this time.

Kinda reminds me of this a bit ...

Sobit1964

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Having your own opinions on Holohan and NPHETs work professionally is fine in my book. I do draw a line at some of the personal attacks, name-calling and other deplorable behaviour that's been witnessed in this thread.

On thread I've seen Holohan called names, personally slandered, mocked among other things and quite frankly it's completely unacceptable. If that's all the arguments you and your fellow thankers have, then you have nothing.

If you wouldn't say these things and not hide behind a pseudonym, then you shouldn't say them.

Please arrange for an interview at your earliest. I wish to inform RTE and their audience of terrified 60YO+ pensioners that Tony is a bit of an eejit.

I shall remove my virtual balaclava and use 'slides' to highlight just how much of an odd ball he is within the EU.

When you can organise this - I might, but probably wont, take you seriously.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I have to say I find the personal obsession of some posters here for Holohan and the other prominent NPHET members quite disturbing.

When you set yourself up as a celebrity commentator, go onto the Late Late Show multiple times, choose to have a Twitter account denouncing fellow citizens, and so on, you are fair game for public criticism.

Dr. Holohan should offer his advice to the elected Government of this Republic in private.

The days of making decisions at secret NPHET meetings followed by on-demand time on the national broadcaster must end.

acequion

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Having your own opinions on Holohan and NPHETs work professionally is fine in my book. I do draw a line at some of the personal attacks, name-calling and other deplorable behaviour that's been witnessed in this thread.

On thread I've seen Holohan called names, personally slandered, mocked among other things and quite frankly it's completely unacceptable. If that's all the arguments you and your fellow thankers have, then you have nothing.

If you wouldn't say these things and not hide behind a pseudonym, then you shouldn't say them.

I haven't seen anybody go as far as you claim and those that have are quickly banned. If you can't handle him being called stuff like Saint Tony or other mild nicknames then maybe you shouldn't be on this thread. I've read brilliant arguments on this thread from both sides of the debate. Holohan is a very public figure so it's inevitable that he'll be much talked about here and inevitable that a lot of it will be very disparaging.

Stormyteacup

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Having your own opinions on Holohan and NPHETs work professionally is fine in my book. I do draw a line at some of the personal attacks, name-calling and other deplorable behaviour that's been witnessed in this thread.

On thread I've seen Holohan called names, personally slandered, mocked among other things and quite frankly it's completely unacceptable. If that's all the arguments you and your fellow thankers have, then you have nothing.

If you wouldn't say these things and not hide behind a pseudonym, then you shouldn't say them.

I try to stay away from personal digs and slandering. And mocking, but I will admit to a slight bit of all f the above during periods of intense frustration. But I thoroughly dislike the man - and that stemmed from when he first came to my notice on account of the unmentionable.

And I would have no qualms saying it calmly to his face. His professional conduct is linked to his arrogant, domineering and patronising manner, so it’s quite difficult to extricate his work from the man.

I’m sure he’s not losing sleep over my opinion of him - but I’m quite open about the fact that my opinion of him couldn’t be much lower than it is.

Dr. Bre

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I have to say I find the personal obsession of some posters here for Holohan and the other prominent NPHET members quite disturbing.

I am concerned you are disturbed

Henry...

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I am concerned you are disturbed

I'm concerned he's disturbed

In fact I'm very concerned

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Here published on 18th of June is NHS data on variants:

SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England

Please skip to Page 8/71 which gives the respective CFRs for Alpha variant and Delta variant.

Alpha 1.9% (1.8 to 2.0%)

Delta 0.1% (0.1 to 0.2%)

Delta, according to this NHS data, is 1/10th to 1/20th as deadly as the original strain and the first mutations.

A more accurate statement is the average person who contracted the delta variant was 1/10th to 1/20th as likely to die than the average person who caught the alpha variant. This is down to the profile of those who caught the delta variant and not how deadly the disease is. i.e. they are younger and vaccinated as opposed to older and unvaccinated on average. In the 25th June version of report linked the death rate in under 50s was 0.1% with delta, compared with 0.1% with alpha. For over 50s it was 1.1% compared with 4.8%. Overall rate was 0.127% as the age of cases skewed young

SNNUS

daydorunrun wrote: »

The government there are not bringing in mandatory vaccination by stealth. There are two choices there- take it or don’t. Rather than the take it or be excluded from the reintroduction of certain freedoms that is evolving here.

"Vaccines set you Free"....

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Mass mask wearing on a timescale of years is itself an experiment.

Restricting oxygen flow on a daily basis for say three years does... what to your health? No one knows.

But hey 'I thrust the experts' right?

How was oxygen flow restricted?

Richard Hillman

As Boris Johnson said, if we don't open now when will we open up?

The NPHET Regime won't allow opening this month. They won't allow opening just before the schools go back. They won't allow opening coming into the winter months.

So when are we talking? March, April, May? What the actual f**k.

And anyone defending the NPHET Regime, I'll ask what we've been asking for a week now. Under what circumstances do you believe NPHET will allow the end of all restrictions?

The virus isn't going away. The vaccines don't make it disappear.

MrMusician18

Richard Hillman wrote: »

As Boris Johnson said, if we don't open now when will we open up?

The NPHET Regime won't allow opening this month. They won't allow opening just before the schools go back. They won't allow opening coming into the winter months.

So when are we talking? March, April, May? What the actual f**k.

And anyone defending the NPHET Regime, I'll ask what we've been asking for a week now. Under what circumstances do you believe NPHET will allow the end of all restrictions?

The virus isn't going away. The vaccines don't make it disappear.

?? The country IS open.
Shops✓
Construction✓
Pubs ✓
Restaurants✓
Cinema✓
Sports✓
Free internal movement✓
Personal services✓

You'd hardly expect any of the above to be available if the country was closed. You need to return to reality tbh.

Richard Hillman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

?? The country IS open.
Shops✓
Construction✓
Pubs ✓
Restaurants✓
Cinema✓
Sports✓
Free internal movement✓
Personal services✓

You'd hardly expect any of the above to be available if the country was closed. You need to return to reality tbh.

When do you think NPHET will lift all restrictions?

Sobit1964

Deleted User wrote: »

How was oxygen flow restricted?

Well.... You have a mouth and nose.... Then something goes in front of it, if it restricts the flow of ambient Nolans, its probably restricting other stuff.

BTW

I approve of restricting Nolans.

MrMusician18

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When do you think NPHET will lift all restrictions?

NPHET didn't impose restrictions. The government did.

Indoor hospitality for the vaccinated will likely return on July 19th or the week after, assuming that the HSE can manage to roll out the covid vax app - not guaranteed due to the hack but all the stops are pulled in order to get it out.

When will the remaining restrictions be fully eased? I don't know, likely when we are approaching herd immunity. So back to the office in late August along with masks and social distancing reduced to an advisory.

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

How was oxygen flow restricted?

There's some evidence that wearing face masks may reduce blood oxygenation:

Protective Face Masks: Effect on the Oxygenation and Heart Rate Status of Oral Surgeons during Surgery

Preliminary report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

There's some evidence that wearing face masks may reduce blood oxygenation:

Protective Face Masks: Effect on the Oxygenation and Heart Rate Status of Oral Surgeons during Surgery

Preliminary report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery

Results: In all 20 surgeons wearing FFP2 covered by surgical masks

Exactly the same conditions as the average person in Tesco then?

growleaves

raind,

I have seen people walking around Dublin in FFP2 masks.

Are you willing the consider the evidence or not?

It isn't a gotcha game, if you're concerned about health effects from e.g. long covid then why aren't you concerned about (potential) health effects from restrictions?

Is it because you're worried that that will undermine your political support for said restrictions?

Sobit1964

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Well.... You have a mouth and nose.... Then something goes in front of it, if it restricts the flow of ambient Nolans, its probably restricting other stuff.

BTW

I approve of restricting Nolans.

O2 molecule diameters- 0.0000000346mm
Aerosolised respiratory droplet diameter > 0.0010mm.
Nolan diameters > 2 Tubridys

Sobit1964

Deleted User wrote: »

O2 molecule diameters- 0.0000000346mm
Aerosolised respiratory droplet diameter > 0.0010mm.
Nolan diameters > 2 Tubridys

Love it!

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

raind,

I have seen people walking around Dublin in FFP2 masks.

Are you willing the consider the evidence or not?

It isn't a gotcha game, if you're concerned about health effects from e.g. long covid then why aren't you concerned about (potential) health effects from restrictions?

Is it because you're worried that that will undermine your political support for said restrictions?

First - I am not concerned about long Covid

Second

Conclusions: In conclusion, wearing an FFP2 covered by a surgical mask induces a reduction in circulating O2 concentrations without clinical relevance

gozunda

acequion wrote: »

I haven't seen anybody go as far as you claim and those that have are quickly banned. If you can't handle him being called stuff like Saint Tony or other mild nicknames then maybe you shouldn't be on this thread. I've read brilliant arguments on this thread from both sides of the debate. Holohan is a very public figure so it's inevitable that he'll be much talked about here and inevitable that a lot of it will be very disparaging.

Ah come on now - some of the descriptors have bordered on the rabid and utterly bizarre tbf. Really no need for that kind of thing and no - I'm not a 'fan' just I dont tend to make either idols or hate figures of those in the public sphere. And on that I hope Necro won't mind if I quote him directly

Calling people names such as Dr. Death or Saint Tony etc. only weaken your argument, it's the lowest form of wit.

And that's about it ...

MOR316

gozunda wrote: »

And that's about it ...

I disagree with this part...

Not accusing you but, I've seen many posters on here take up you side of the debate and we've all seen them try to patronise them, insult them and try to embarrass them, all in the name of making one feel good about themselves.
A Moderator on here yesterday tried to one up me and belittle me by highlighting a joke I made.
You might not particapate in it but, I've seen you back it.

It's not a case of people calling Holohan, "Dr. Death" and then try to use everything to belittle others who you disagree with it.
People need to face facts with the guy, Tony Holohan put himself in this position, he's been wrong on several occasions and he has hurt a lot of people, going all the way back to 2009.

gozunda

MOR316 wrote: »

I disagree with this part...

Not accusing you but, I've seen many posters on here take up you side of the debate and we've all seen them try to patronise them, insult them and try to embarrass them, all in the name of making one feel good about themselves. A Moderator on here yesterday tried to one up me and belittle me by highlighting a joke I made. You might not particapate in it but, I've seen you back it.

It's not a case of people calling Holohan, "Dr. Death" and then try to use everything to belittle others who you disagree with it.
Face facts, Tony Holohan put himself in this position, he's been wrong on several occasions and he has hurt a lot of people, going all the way back to 2009.

Eh? Which part exactly?

I think you're getting mixed up tbf

The above comment refers to the issue of calling public figures people names such as Dr. Death or Saint Tony etc. And the fact its a low form of wit at best.

But no I really don't understand what you're referring to in reference to my comment.

MOR316

gozunda wrote: »

Which part?

"Saying Dr. Death weakens the argument" part

It doesn't. I can't understand how people have forgotten his dodgy actions and past since 2009.

It's not speculative, it's a fact! People get emotive over it but, they're not saying anything wrong.

I genuinely dare anyone on here, to go to someone who took the swine flu vaccine in 2010, to someone like Vicky Phelan, to someone whose life has been crippled thanks to his "recommendations," to someone who is still on a waiting list thanks to his misplaced ego and say, "insulting him cheapens your argument." I would genuinely give them €1000 euro if they did.

Bottom line is, they wouldn't!

Tony Holohan is what he is! The denial is insane. He put himself in this position through his actions, therefore he's gonna cop the flak! End of! There is no defending it!

MM, Leo and SD are not spared so why should he be? Facts don't lie!

storker

MrMusician18 wrote: »

?? The country IS open.
Shops✓
Construction✓
Pubs ✓
Restaurants✓
Cinema✓
Sports✓
Free internal movement✓
Personal services✓

You'd hardly expect any of the above to be available if the country was closed. You need to return to reality tbh.

Ironic isn't it? Those who were so quick to accuse others of having no lives and being in hiding are so caught up with their outrage that they don't appear to have noticed the lightening of restrictions that less wound up people are taking advantage of. Pull your heads out of the thread, gents...

MOR316

storker wrote: »

Ironic isn't it? Those who were so quick to accuse others of having no lives and being in hiding are so caught up with their outrage that they don't appear to have noticed the lightening of restrictions that less wound up people are taking advantage of. Pull your heads out of the thread, gents...

"I'm alright so haha **** the rest of you"

gozunda

MOR316 wrote: »

"Saying Dr. Death weakens the argument" part

It doesn't. I can't understand how people have forgotten his dodgy actions and past since 2009.

It's not speculative, it's a fact! People get emotive over it but, they're not saying anything wrong.

I genuinely dare anyone on here, to go to someone who took the swine flu vaccine in 2010, to someone like Vicky Phelan, to someone whose life has been crippled thanks to his "recommendations," to someone who is still on a waiting list thanks to his misplaced ego and say, "insulting him cheapens your argument." I would genuinely give them €1000 euro if they did.

Bottom line is, they wouldn't!

Tony Holohan is what he is! The denial is insane. He put himself in this position through his actions, therefore he's gonna cop the flak! End of! There is no defending it!

MM, Leo and SD are not spared so why should he be? Facts don't lie!

Not me saying that btw. I'm was quoting it. But yes I happen to agree with that idea regardless of who the public figure is.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Exactly. I know the internet does anger and rage better than anywhere but the past few days has been ridiculous. Its been a completely ott reaction to what - the restriction on indoor hospitality.

Just get on with it.

There is always a few, no matter how much something is explained to them, they miss the point. Whether its deliberate, or they really arent that bright at all, perhaps both....who knows :rolleyes:

MOR316

gozunda wrote: »

Not me saying that btw. I'm was quoting quoting it btw. See first page of this thread.

I said in my first response that I wasn't accusing you or anything of the kind. I haven't read anything in relation to you defending him. I was venting and mean't overall

As per my post, I find it insane