Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291193#Comment_119291193

It is good to see that you recognise that I posted the facts.

I placed it in context - otherwise healthy people dying of Covid.

Some here appear to like throwing about that 'misinformation' term when they see facts that don't suit their views.

I will state yet again, that according to the CSO, 153 people died of Covid who had no other co-morbidities listed on their death certificates, during the two years 2020 and 2021.

Accept it or not that is the number.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291229#Comment_119291229

No... facts without context does not equal reliable information.

Statistics being taken from CSO ?.. the CSO themselves would day that to use them without appropriate context is incorrect .

You made up your own context and try to pass it off as true .

What you said was only so many " died " of Covid alone .

Are you a pathologist ? Are you qualified to make statements like that.?

Only charlatans try to pass their statements off as more educated than the experts .

Its rubbish that has been discredited before .

No more to say to you .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290727#Comment_119290727

Well if you are talking about people who try to claim that Covid is gone or that Covid was never anything to be worried about when the evidence is RELIABLY to the contrary , yea , won't be agreeing with people like that , no .

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291403#Comment_119291403

Are you seriously calling into question what is written on death certificates?

153 people died in Ireland, whose death certs had Covid alone - no other co-morbidities - mentioned on those certs. The WHO determined the categories - U07.1 and U07.2.

If you have a problem with the categories, then I suggest you take the matter up with the WHO.

I do not question the qualified people who filled those certs, nor do I question the statisticians at the Central Statistics Office who produced the numbers.

You appear to believe you are qualified to do both.

I will still believe the numbers produced by the CSO regardless your opinion.

Goldengirl

You know I am not questioning either the WHO or the CSO for either their data or their categorisation , just YOU , for your ridiculous statements about how many died with " only Covid " .

That is meaningless twaddle as you know , because so many people in the population have at least one comorbidity , when you are talking about common diseases like asthma for example ...

You think asthma , hypertension , or even diabetes are death sentences these days for the majority of people ?

Good night .

eagle eye

My dad, 81, broke his hip and ended up in hospital and now has covid. Luckily no symptoms to this point. He's got three shots.

I've still managed to avoid it somehow and my family.

I was a close contact last week for the first time since this began.

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291485#Comment_119291485

Hope he gets well soon. I was a close contact myself a couple of weeks back. I was in a small kitchen with 3 other people. One was 80 and the other 2 late 70’s. I did notice one was coughing a bit. 2 days later the other 2 developed symptoms. I miraculously didn’t catch it. All fully recovered.

Micky 32

BA.5 is now like having viral meningitis according to the die hard Loonies 😆. Do we think we could get a vaccine to cure these clowns anytime soon ? 🤡

https://twitter.com/brian_orak/status/1544135108113973249?s=21&t=Y00kksqtOdrwv9CGS_ofjQ

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291509#Comment_119291509

More disinformation from the poster.

You quote the information out of context.

Where is the list of co-morbidities?

What is a co-morbidity?

What is an underlying cause of death?

And then it becomes misinformation when you attach words like 'healthy' or 'deadly' and include them in your editorial on snippets of out of context information.

You can have a 'comorbidity' and live for decades. You can have a comorbidity and still be in relatively good health for your age, the condition well managed with prescription medication.

Comorbidities, while they may raise the risk of severe disease, are not necessarily the cause of death. The virus itself can be the cause of otherwise preventable death among those who had manageable health conditions.

Throughly debunked disinformation resposted again and again on this thread.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-comorbidities-coviddeaths-idUSL1N2TU22X

Micky 32

Some positive news this morning. Hospitals dropped from 885 to 849. Lots of discharges. I’d say we aren’t too far away from the peak.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291229#Comment_119291229

I will state yet again, that according to the CSO, 153 people died of Covid who had no other co-morbidities listed on their death certificates, during the two years 2020 and 2021.

It could be an unknown comorbidity or very likely a genetic issue. Recent work in that area has identified over 1,000 genes that may be part or the puzzle.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291496#Comment_119291496

Thank you for the good wishes.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292135#Comment_119292135

Sure we can all speculate on lots of things.

But speculation is all it is.

I could speculate that something else killed all those who are classified as Covid deaths too .... maybe it was some other respiratory disease ... but that would be just speculation and nothing else regardless what I based it on.

Heck, I might speculate that those 153 might have had undiagnosed co-morbidities and that is what killed them. More speculation and just pointless.

The numbers I have consistently quoted are factual. Do we trust those who are responsible for filling out death certificates accurately?

I will take their numbers before any speculation. They are the facts.

153 people in two years were certified that they died from Covid alone, all others had contributory factors/co-morbidities/etc..

I have no idea why these facts are abhorrent to anyone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292871#Comment_119292871

If you look at all of the information we have available.

1) 153 deaths in 2 years with ONLY COVID as the cause.

2) The age of the deaths

3) The lack of excess deaths

Those 3 pieces of information would lead me to believe that most of the people that died with COVID likely would have died very soon without COVID also.

That doesn't mean their deaths are not sad.

But if we ever intend to bring back any measures, we really need to understand exactly what the value of those measures would be.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293304#Comment_119293304

The measures were brought in also to protect health service capability to treat those who would not have died very soon - unless they got covid. The median age for ICU admission was 60.

That's why there was ICU capacity and hospital available to treat them.

This is why country after country brought in measures, they weren't just looking at covid deaths, but hospital capacity.

You know this, yet pretend not to.

So unless you also look at the lives saved in the covid pandemic, you are deliberately presenting a deceptive and incomplete picture by ignoring that aspect.

So it's completely without merit or foundation to simply presume that we could have had no excess mortality without measures to contain covid.

is_that_so

Another China headline: Zero-Covid strategy shuts down north-central city of 13 million following 18 reported cases of Omicron!

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294485#Comment_119294485

I think if I lived in China I’d start thinking about emigration.

Micky 32

It does now seem BA.5 can cause more serious disease. It’s now believed to infect the lungs more easily like before with the Delta variants etc.

However thankfully because of the mass infections of BA.1 and BA.2 ( more importantly) along with vaccinations it has created a lot of immunity against serious illness in our population hence why our hospitals aren’t rising like they did with BA.2 and people are not getting as sick.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293461#Comment_119293461

Countries that didn't enforce stringent interventions fared no differently to those that did. If anything they had better outcomes. The intervention strategy was a failure.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294723#Comment_119294723

Statement without foundation.

If you look at Sweden, which did not lockdown, it has a noticeably higher excess death than its peer neighbours (which did have restrictions and therefore to some extent buttressed Sweden) while still having same economic contraction.

England tried to follow the Swedish strategy - do you remember the parties at Cheltenham - and had to abandon it as hospitals filled up. Going into lockdown a week earlier could have saved thousands of lives.

Coronavirus: enforcing UK lockdown one week earlier 'could have saved 20,000 lives' | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294887#Comment_119294887

The go to is always to compare with Swedens direct neighbours even though it makes more sense to compare with Europe as a whole. Of course if you do that then Sweden doesn't stand out and fares quite well overall.

The comment about England is pure speculation.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294986#Comment_119294986

The go to is always to compare Sweden with its peer Scandinavian countries, which most resemble it in density and culture. If we were discussing any topic (not just covid), they would be the first countries any intellectually honest person assessing Sweden's performance at X would compare them to.

One of lowest population density countries in Europe, surrounded by other lower end population density countries which did lockdown, compares well with high population density countries and countries with mega cities? When considering the spread of an infectious disease?

Country after country imposed measures for the same reason. They saw the deaths rising and they saw the hospitals filling up. This is not pure speculation, this is the declared and evidential reason documented for that decision. Anything else is "pure speculation" without foundation.

Therefore to suggest measures should be judged only on the profile of those that died is an incomplete if not disingenuous basis.

Fr0g

And Florida and north Vs south Dakota etc. It seems that those places that didn't lockdown just coincidentally had average or better outcomes.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295095#Comment_119295095

Untrue. Florida did lockdown, and had regional lockdowns on Miami region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Florida

The Dakotas? Let me guess, low population density state surrounded by states which did impose lockdowns or measures?

Yeah, you might get away with that to an extent when you are a Dakota or a Sweden, it simply doesn't scale. Try it in London, New York, Paris or region wide and see what happens.

Johnboy1951

While reading an article today by Laura Dodsworth, I came across a reference to Covid only deaths in UK which were also a small percentage of the whole, so the numbers I posted earlier, would seem to be not so strange as at first appeared to me.

Now I have no idea how reliable this writer is, and am not concerned with how she views the situation, so I am making no claims about what is written, but I thought to copy the relevant part here for discussion ...

But there is an urgent health situation that too few people are talking about. Non-Covid excess deaths are worryingly high. In the last week’s reported ONS data, there were 10,836 deaths in England and Wales in total. Covid was the cause of 166 of them and involved (mentioned but not main cause) in a further 119. The concerning part is that this total is a staggering 1,432 deaths above the five year 2015-2019 average.

Deaths registered in May 2022 were 5,873 above the average seen pre-pandemic in 2015-2019. Of those 4,357 were not due to Covid. Of the main causes of death, heart disease had the largest number of deaths above average.

The article is dated 5th July 2022 and is at the bottom of this page.

https://lauradodsworth.substack.com/p/midsummer-mask-madness

So in UK in the last week Covid deaths plus Covid related deaths amounted to approx 2.5% of the total deaths (285 from 10,836).

My only reason for posting this is to make a comparison with our neighbours and their recently reported Covid deaths.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294887#Comment_119294887

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290261#Comment_119290261

Yesterday Sweden DID lockdown today they DID’NT. Which one is it? It can’t be both just to satisfy whichever little argument you’re having with your own head on a given day.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291485#Comment_119291485

Glad to hear he has no symptoms. Must be a relief that it’s not affected him.

How was the virus detected if he contracted it after admission to hospital and has no symptoms? Are they testing people even after they’ve been admitted?

odyssey06

Are the figures age adjusted?

In 2015 there were 2.9 million people over 80 in the UK.

In 2021 there were 3.2 million.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2015

https://www.mha.org.uk/get-involved/policy-influencing/facts-stats/

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295413#Comment_119295413

Yes they are.

The sudden surge of covid recently is due to Summer travel. The people who have travelled through the airports and mixed with others on holiday are driving the increase. Some deny deny this evident fact how do they explain how this moved across the world so quickly in the first place?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295382#Comment_119295382

I'll repost what I wrote yesterday and other posters can judge for themselves whether you just have a poor recollection or are deliberately trying to be deceptive. So perhaps you should have that argument with yourself.

This is what I wrote:

There was a massive shift in behaviours e.g. working from home, economic activity dropped as much versus countries which did lockdown, detectable reductions in people's radius of travel. To a large extent they locked themselves down.

It was clear from my posts today it was in relation to government measures.