Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Johnboy1951

No matter what way you try to look at it, we had 153 deaths from Covid of people who had no underlying contributory factors.

For all others 'classified' as Covid deaths, Covid was one contributory factor among other - sometimes multiple - contributory factors.

No one can tell for definite 'what if' anything .... whether those people would have died in a short time or not.

The fact remains, according to WHO classification and CSO stats, 153 healthy people died FROM Covid in the two years.

Also we should remember that this was during a time when we received NO advice on how to help our immune systems deal with this respiratory infection.

So 153 deaths during a time when there was no early treatment for the infection.

Deadly? I think not.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289224#Comment_119289224

Would you consider ebola or the plague to be deadly?

How many deaths or hospitalisations did we have from them in Ireland in 2020 and 2021?

How many people did covid put into ICU and hospital in the same period in Ireland?

Covid's "deadliness" is in its infectiousness and the numbers of people it can hit with severe covid.

And we have a lot of people in this country who fall into your 'non healthy' category.

So which is more 'deadly' to the capacity of the health system to function?

sporina

of the people in hospital with Covid - anyone know how many were admitted because of Covid/how many got it in hospital when admitted with something else?

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289655#Comment_119289655

it’s approx 50-60% are admitted with Covid not because of it. In the UK it’s 60% currently.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289251#Comment_119289251

We were told there could be 120,000 deaths in Ireland from Covid by the “experts”. And if we have so many “non healthy” people in the country then why have the government NEVER told us that we need to be healthier instead of actually actively STOPPING people from getting healthier by closing gyms and enforcing utterly ludicrous 2km from home rules?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289885#Comment_119289885

Because that'll work for in the short term for a 70 year in the midst of a highly infectious pandemic? Really?

That was a scenario based on early data from China. That we didn't have more deaths from covid was because of such warnings, people changed their behaviour both voluntarily and as a result of government mandates. I don't know what the deaths would have been had we just carried on as "just the flu bro" / "dose of the sniffles" but it would have dwarfed the number that did die; because in short order we'd have had so many infected hospitals would be overwhelmed. This is why country after country saw the numbers in the hospitals and reacted as they did.

I stand over all my points:

Would you consider ebola or the plague to be deadly?

How many deaths or hospitalisations did we have from them in Ireland in 2020 and 2021?

How many people did covid put into ICU and hospital in the same period in Ireland?

Covid's "deadliness" is in its infectiousness and the numbers of people it can hit with severe covid.

And we have a lot of people in this country who fall into your 'non healthy' category.

So which is more 'deadly' to the capacity of the health system to function?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288467#Comment_119288467

Jeez, calm down. I can just imagine you jumping back 2 feet in horror everytime someone extends their hand to you. Probably in 2 masks also. Lol

Hand shaking doesn't have any effect whatsoever on an airborne disease. Just wash your hands and don't touch your face or eat before doing so. Sorry but human beings aren't going to change their inbuilt social behaviour to keep you happy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290105#Comment_119290105

You'd have to compare us to a country that didn't lockdown to get an idea. Take Sweden for example.

Their deaths must dwarf Ireland's? Id say it was a bloodbath over there? Surely over 50K deaths?

Oh, they only have just over double our deaths with twice our population at least and an elder population at that.

Europe's strictest lockdown Vs no lockdown = barely a noticeable difference in deaths..

Not a great look for strict lockdowns.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290200#Comment_119290200

Sweden had 10% excess deaths in 2020. That's not "barely noticeable".

Ireland had none.

And also, Sweden didn't just carry on as before as if it was "just the flu bro" / "dose of the sniffles" or whatever weasel words are in vogue with the covid deniers. There was a massive shift in behaviours e.g. working from home, economic activity dropped as much versus countries which did lockdown, detectable reductions in people's radius of travel. To a large extent they locked themselves down. And they still had noticeably higher deaths than Ireland and versus their peer Scandinavian countries in 2020.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290261#Comment_119290261

So their “lockdown” didn’t work then?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290277#Comment_119290277

I see some people are incapable of envisaging scenarios other than what actually happened & only capable of thinking in binary. In the real world there are incremental and gradual effects.

Define "worked", if you can.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290261#Comment_119290261

Also, “Covid deniers”? Could you point them out please?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290299#Comment_119290299

Sure, look at anyone who calls it Covid a "dose of the sniffles", or "just the flu bro" although most of them are highlighted on page 1.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290261#Comment_119290261

Hilarious stuff.

Sweden didnt do too badly because apparently they actually did lockdown. When we know they didn't.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290315#Comment_119290315

In the first instance, I should also mention that Sweden is a low population density country and was surrounded by countries which did lockdown. There was a massive reduction in international travel. So in multiple respects, Sweden didn't just carry on or live in a wider world that carried on as if it was "just the flu bro" / "a dose of the sniffles".

In the second instance, this is what I wrote:

 There was a massive shift in behaviours e.g. working from home, economic activity dropped as much versus countries which did lockdown, detectable reductions in people's radius of travel. To a large extent they locked themselves down.

This is what you wrote:

apparently they actually did lockdown. When we know they didn't.

Readers - It was clear from my post I was referring to voluntary changes in behaviour yet the poster deliberately ignores this \ is incapable of understanding the difference. You can draw your own conclusion as to whether it is someone unable or willing to comprehend the distinction or... a deliberate attempt to deceive.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290105#Comment_119290105

I will answer those questions when we suffer a pandemic of plague and ebola, and can access the CSO's reports of the number of deaths and who was most vulnerable to them.

Any more nonsense questions you want to throw about?

Johnboy1951

Another aspect of those statements from the CSO is

The remaining <different number each year> deaths had COVID-19 classified as the Underlying Cause of Death but also had only co-morbidities mentioned on the death certificate. 

(highlight by me)

Does this mean Covid is not listed along with co-morbidities on the death certificates?

If that is the case then what are the implications? Does it mean Covid is not mentioned as a contributory factor on the death certificate, but the death is nonetheless classified as a Covid death? If so I wonder why this would happen in such a large number of cases.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ above quoted from previous post ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are there any thoughts on this aspect?

It intrigues me.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290418#Comment_119290418

Ah, so you are incapable \ unwilling to answer the questions, so you throw up this smokecreen \ attempt at deflection?

You were the one who introduced the concept of whether covid was 'deadly'. So nope, it's not nonsense to assess its 'deadliness' in relation to other infectious diseases.

I think I've shown up how faulty your basis for the statement was.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290431#Comment_119290431

Hahahaha

The basis for my comments are the figures released by the CSO in the categories determined by the WHO.

When similar figures are available from CSO for the pandemics you want to be remarked upon, then I will do so if asked. Prior to that your questions are ridiculous in the extreme.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290447#Comment_119290447

Your refusal to consider what 'deadly' means in relation to infectious diseases in general shows how ill informed your original comment was as it has no basis or context.

Which disease is more deadly if we look at lives lost? Covid is \ was infecting and killing people here. Ebola hasn't killed anyone here. Covid is a more deadly disease in Ireland and the Western World.

So laughing in response just further highlights how weak and glib your case was when subjected to scrutiny.

rahmalec

Sweden also has more people living alone, etc, compared to here (and places like Italy)

sporina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289702#Comment_119289702

thanks - where did you read/hear that?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288692#Comment_119288692

Absolutely. People in their 40s and 50s with asthma , high blood pressure or diabetes would not be acutely at risk like they have been for the past 2 years plus requiring repeated vaccination to keep them out of hospital and ICU .

@Johnboy1951 Misinformation with an attempt to dress it up as real facts .

This has been the mantra from deniers and antivaxxers social media sites and is just too ignorant to discuss or even to requote your post .

The famous Nurse John (the one with the phD )was called out by the BBC for attempting to justify this nonsense and by the Broadcasting Regulating Authority in UK for misinformation in the guise of science .

He of course retracted saying that that was not what he meant to say at all , but with his credibility shot to bits , unfortunately.

I think the number of patients he said that died in the UK was 17000 !

Did you ever hear such a load of bs in your life ?

Eh , maybe you have , but I prefer to get my information from people who know what they are talking about .

Micky 32

MM today :

“He said that there are currently 800 people in hospital with Covid-19, and while half of those were in hospital for other reasons”

Ouch Chinese Byrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290588#Comment_119290588

Where do you get your information from?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290645#Comment_119290645

My work , colleagues (qualified medical and nursing ) and HSPC statistics re around the country . Also verified research from reliable sources and not just anecdotal makey up claptrap.

It's not just those in the elderly bracket that have been hospitalised and seriously ill with this .

These same statistics and information have been posted on this forum as soon as they became available all along .

Some of the reliable posters have been here all along and are plain to see.

Some of the good people who did post statistics left because of persistent abuse from some posters who sought to deny that there was a pandemic and tried to twist statistics to suit their own narrative as above.

Theres a bit of that hanging around the thread here still it seems .

A good place to start , bearing in mind at present because this variant is so infectious and milder , 50% of cases are picked up on admission for other issues , the rest are sick because of Covid.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290688#Comment_119290688

Reliable posters being posters that agree with you I take it?

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290588#Comment_119290588

@Johnboy1951 Misinformation with an attempt to dress it up as real facts .

I quoted the information from the CSO. It is there on line should you wish to inform yourself.

That you refer to the CSO figures as misinformation shows more about you than them or me.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291167#Comment_119291167

Isolated snippete of factual Information taken out of context is misinformation when dressed up with the spin you tried to put on it.

Micky 32

A thread with some info on the current variants in circulation:

https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1544062632981839872?s=21&t=Be3ubHdgh3c7zu4Lfnf2Cg