Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295462#Comment_119295462

So the last surge a couple months back was caused by summer travel? . What rubbish. It’s being driven by BA.4/BA.5. Variants will always find their way in regardless of summer travel. I have travelled long haul multiple times ( and will continue to do so) in the last 6 months and didn’t catch it yet. However in a house in the Arsehole of Leitrim I nearly caught it.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295413#Comment_119295413

It's done before an operation apparently.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294676#Comment_119294676

Thats half right , the first bit yes .

The second part..Nope. Omicron has been shown not to confer any immunity against any Omicron variant or indeed from repeated infection at all , serious disease or otherwise. That would be infection from the original strains only .

It does confer some t cell immunity which would protect against Alpha, Beta or Delta strains it has been found , but not Omicron spike itself which is different .

So it has evolved to get rid of the competition .

That's ok as long as it doesn't evolve into a more pathological strain causing serious disease.

Then its trouble because you have a variant that has evolved to avoid the vaccines , to reinfect again and again .

At present what is protecting the population from serious disease is t cells and other immunity from vaccinations .

And that's not my view by the way , it's the view of the scientists who did the research ..summary here ..

https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1474

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296045#Comment_119296045

Do you ever actually read posts? I said against serious illness. I’ll repeat serious illness. The much less hospitalisations in this wave proves my point or do you have a better explanation? Look especially at the SA data.

Goldengirl

Comparing Sweden to the rest of Europe instead of it's own neighbours who are both culturally and demographically more alike , is like comparing Florida and North Dakota with California, Apples and Oranges ...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-09/florida-vs-california-who-had-better-covid-response

If anybody wants data comparing Sweden ( unfavourably as it happens ) to its neighbours or many other countries including Ireland , it has been reproduced time and again on the dedicated Swedish thread .

It's a bit strange that some posters are trying to resurrect that old chestnut here .

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295657#Comment_119295657

All surges have been caused by travelin the first place. A new virus is one plane ride away from here. Anyway how can you 'nearly' catch it?

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296149#Comment_119296149

Yes in the first place. But it’s not fueling the current surge. Shut the airports right? Lol 2020 is long gone I’m afraid.

I was in a room with 3 other people. One had covid unknowingly to herself. The other 2 got it but I escaped.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296114#Comment_119296114

No that would be down to vaccinations , not getting infected again and again with Omicron .

Made that distinction in my post ...if you read my post properly !

And by the way you never mentioned SA , but if you want to ...their age demographic is very different to ours .

https://www.voanews.com/a/south-africa-has-new-surge-of-covid-from-omicron-sub-variants/6572631.html

" It seems the vaccines are still preventing serious disease "

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296175#Comment_119296175

Ah right so SA their age demographic changed with each wave? Right .

it’s a known fact BA.2 is giving protections against serious illness for BA.5. The hospitalizations prove it in Ireland anyway. Ireland had just as high vaccination rates couple months back when we had twice the amount in hospitals. We have been vaccinated a longtime now. In fact much less waning months ago. So no, it’s not down to just vaccination.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296200#Comment_119296200

How is it a well known fact ?

Produce evidence to back that up .

All I have seen ...data and evidence, that is ... including the link to the very large study in my post above , that you obviously did not read , Mickey, says the opposite .

And it is waning , that is why their are more elderly back in hospital now . And that is why they are trying to encourage more if that age group to get their second booster .

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296224#Comment_119296224

I’ll ask you once more before I put you on ignore . Why have we 50% less in hospitals in the middle of this wave vs the last wave especially when BA.5 is more pathogenic? It’s not just down to vaccinations. We were all vaccinated months ago when there was 1679 in hospitals with twice the amount in ICU’s.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296267#Comment_119296267

It's not PROVEN to be more pathogenic , just that it MIGHT be affecting lungs more .

We were all infected quickly because we never had Omicron before and I'll give you that , but it's not PROVEN that it gives any immunity at all to the other Omicron variants .

If it is then I promise you I will come back here and say your hunch was right , ok ?

But up to then it's just a hunch / opinion.

Night .

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295484#Comment_119295484

So not a lockdown then. If every country had done the same they would have had similar outcomes. The fact is fit and healthy people were in no danger from COVID and didn't need to quarantine. As per WHO guidelines for previous decades.

There is little to be gained from locking down young fit and healthy people.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296710#Comment_119296710

"If every country had done the same they would have had similar outcomes"

Statement without foundation. Already dealt with earlier with reference to their low population density disproven by comparison with their neighbours - but ignored by you.

"Fit and healthy people in no danger from COVID"

Statement without foundation. 15% of Covid deaths in the US were under 80 \ without other conditions. The ICU and hospitalisation admissions here also disprove your statement. If it can put you into ICU then yes it is a danger to you.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295180#Comment_119295180

So what you're saying is Ireland with it's low population density and surrounded by water didn't need to lockdown? We would have had a similar outcome as those other countries who didn't lock down?

So it was all completely unnecessary. You should have shared your wisdom with NPHET.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296746#Comment_119296746

No I didn't say that at all. Not unless we wanted to have at least the same excess deaths Sweden did and have thousands more dead Irish citizens. Plus we share an open border with the UK. Perhaps read the entirety of the posts you are responding to instead of just the bits you want to quote out of context.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296759#Comment_119296759

Sweden locked themselves down according to you though so it's strange that you are complaining about their excess deaths when they followed the method that you support....

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296788#Comment_119296788

Another dishonest attempt at deliberate misrepresentation of what another poster has written.

This is what I wrote:

There was a massive shift in behaviours e.g. working from home, economic activity dropped as much versus countries which did lockdown, detectable reductions in people's radius of travel. To a large extent they locked themselves down.

Did the Sweden implement government mandated lockdown or restriction measures in wave 1? Nope. You know this, and I know this.

In the sentence I clearly drew the distinction between countries which did lockdown, and Sweden's voluntary action.

So either you are dishonestly misrepresenting what I posted OR if you genuinely think Ireland and Sweden had the same lockdown measures then you have ended your own internal debate.

I think this conversation is done if this is the route you're going down.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296744#Comment_119296744

Sure, sure.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296759#Comment_119296759

You were making the claim that low population density was a factor. The same would apply to Ireland having one the lowest in Europe if that was the case. You know perfectly well what I'm saying.

Either low density is a factor or it isn't. You can't have it both ways.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297441#Comment_119297441

Where did I make the claim it was the only factor?

Low population density was a factor. Government measures was a factor. Voluntary shifts in behaviour was a factor.

All of the above in relation to your neighbours were factors too.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297418#Comment_119297418

Are only people under 44 allowed to be 'fit and healthy'?

I wasn't aware the entire older working age population & active retired were not fit and healthy.

How many people in Ireland fall into your definition of 'not fit' / 'not healthy'?

And are you just prepared to write them off?

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297585#Comment_119297585

That makes no sense. What point are you making? You are desperately trying to find an argument where there isn't one. I am disputing your figure of 15%

Go ahead. Count the numbers up to retirement age. Explain why it was necessary to shutdown the entire economy. While your thinking about that maybe you can tell me where they hid the bodies of the supermarket check out workers who were exposed to hundreds of people every day.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299127#Comment_119299127

In the first instance, the claim we shut down the entire economy is strawman nonsense. If the entire economy was shutdown, how were these supermarket workers going to work? You're tripping over your own nonsense.

The measures were to slow the spread of the virus. It is an infectious disease. It spread from your 'fit and healthy' to the rest. Some of them were getting sick from covid and ending up in hospital - but the main reason was to stop the infections spreading. Medical staff, care home staff, carers, the vulnerable, all of them still had to interact with the rest of the country to access essential services. We couldn't quarantine them away unless you think you could conscript them in barracks for the duration.

And further asked and answered below:

In the US 50% of Covid deaths were under 80, and 15% of deaths were in under 80s without underlying conditions.

Look at the ICU and hospitalisation admissions for covid. The ones who pulled through weren't people who were going to die without covid. They were people, in many cases 'active retired' age groups or with conditions with reasonable expectation of many years of life, who needed medical treatment. Medical treatment that would not have been there, or would have been severely curtailed \ limited \ triaged in the event of the cases overwhelming medical capacity.

And not only people with covid, everyone in need of medical attention would have been facing the same difficulties in accessing hospital care.

And there you have the reasons why country after country reacted as they did.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299127#Comment_119299127

You are agreeing therefore that Irelands approach saved lives , very true .

Odyssey mentioned US I think as an example of how a less stringent approach across the board resulted in deaths especially in states where less were vaccinated .

You yourself brought the US up as regards Florida and California and bizarrely dropped it when challenged .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300647#Comment_119300647

You won’t read them but here you go anyway

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

The memes you are working off as your data sources are 2 years old at this stage and were flagrant misrepresentation at the time, having now aged to blatant lies

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300689#Comment_119300689

Think you are reflecting your own issues there tbh. If you had read my reply and understood it , you would see how it flatly dispoves the facile rubbish you are posting .

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300692#Comment_119300692

"The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals."

Did you read it?

Deeper Blue

I have no issue with someone wearing a mask if it makes them feel safe but do people (e.g. that GP on rte earlier) seriously think reintroducing them on public transport and at airports will actually make any difference? Surely it's been proven beyond doubt that against omicron they're about as useful as a chocolate teapot?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300731#Comment_119300731

*Sigh*