Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Atlantic Dawn

So glad not to be stuck on a sinking ship looking for space on a liferaft with the people I share this country with looking for the vaccine, lots of selfish scotes/srotesses skipping the q. Some would have their golf clubs and shoes in the space of people they could have saved.

Zaney

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

So glad not to be stuck on a sinking ship looking for space on a liferaft with the people I share this country with looking for the vaccine, lots of selfish scotes/srotesses skipping the q. Some would have their golf clubs and shoes in the space of people they could have saved.

Agree. I was told by a family member in the health professions to lobby/hassle my Gp to get prioritised
(Am borderline group 7 on BMI). I know they had my personal welfare at heart. But as I see it, if I’m pushed ahead someone else is pushed behind.

As it is, I got my first dose a few short weeks after I would’ve had if I kicked up a fuss. The whole process will be more efficient / equitable if we just take things as they come.

tom1ie

Wolf359f wrote: »

1% of our cases are Delta vs ~92% in the UK (incidence rate per 100k of cases are similar)
We have approx ~30% people doses with AZ (hard to know without updated figures) vs 62% in the UK.
Also worth mentioning UK have 43% fully vaccinated vs our ~20%
I'm sure someone good with math can work that all out!

If a variant came along that AZ proved better than mRNA vaccines, would the same people begrudge those who got an mRNA jab? Those who got any kinda vaccine are more protected than those waiting for a first jab!

In relation to efficiency, our dominant strain is Alpha, both AZ & mRNA are equally matched there. When people people start worrying their vaccine may not be effective vs a strain which ATM makes up 1% of our cases..... I don't know what to think. If they had a vaccine 100% effective vs Delta but 60% vs Alpha, would they feel better?

But did we have not have something similar with the Kent variant and then that became dominant in Ireland so we can expect the Indian variant to become dominant here?

Atlantic Dawn

tom1ie wrote: »

But did we have not have something similar with the Kent variant and then that became dominant in Ireland so we can expect the Indian variant to become dominant here?

Apparently the newly released E Variant is where it's at now, it's spread through electricity but is still dead with the vaccine. :pac:

tom1ie

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Apparently the newly released E Variant is where it's at now, it's spread through electricity but is still dead with the vaccine. :pac:

Japers!! Sounds tingly!!

nocoverart

We’re gonna be ‘varianting’ (new word I created) the sh1t out of this pain in the ass virus for another 20 years at this rate. The situation will always be “we don’t have enough data yet to see how this new variant plays out” till another one comes along and rinse and repeat. Like a horse constantly jumping hurdles, the hurdles won’t bring the horse down but the exhaustion will.

is_that_so

nocoverart wrote: »

We’re gonna be ‘varianting’ (new word I created) the sh1t out of this pain in the ass virus for another 20 years at this rate. The situation will always be “we don’t have enough data yet to see how this new variant plays out” till another one comes along and rinse and repeat. Like a horse constantly jumping hurdles, the hurdles won’t bring the horse down but the exhaustion will.

A glance at our usual media sources suggests this is not true, COVID has largely receded from the headlines, just like the disease itself. It is true we don't have enough data but that will not be the case by the end of next month when many will be fully vaccinated and COVID will have fewer people to target, variant or no variant.

is_that_so

Good to see this articulated and it is something that employers will need to address in advance of people returning to work.

Staff will be able to return to the workplace even if they refuse the Covid vaccine – and won’t have to tell their employer or colleagues whether they’ve received the jab, according to legal experts.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/staff-who-refuse-the-covid-jab-cannot-bekept-out-of-workplace-40529717.html

VinLieger

is_that_so wrote: »

Good to see this articulated and it is something that employers will need to address in advance of people returning to work.




https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/staff-who-refuse-the-covid-jab-cannot-bekept-out-of-workplace-40529717.html

Hmm I don't see how this works if schools and creches are allowed ask and stop children attending if they aren't vaccinated?

CIARAN_BOYLE

podgeandrodge wrote: »

A lot of people on here have said that it shouldn't matter what vaccine you've got. But with statements like this, (perhaps debatable), have views changed? I have friends in their 60s, and they are all concerned about the risks and begrudging Pfizer recipients at this stage!

For HCW, it remains an issue too presumably, and whether a mix/match approach would be more suitable?

I believe there are cases of delta amount vaccinated people but the vaccine seems to offer partial protection and a 99% protection against serious disease whatever vaccine you received.

Who cares about coronavirus (except re spreading it) if you are vaccinated and only get a cold.

Cork2021

Good news to start a Saturday morning

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1403570184472956928?s=21

is_that_so

VinLieger wrote: »

Hmm I don't see how this works if schools and creches are allowed ask and stop children attending if they aren't vaccinated?

Employee discrimination is the issue. I don't know what rules they use but measles has an R0 of 16 and we need about 95% for herd immunity.

EDIT: Childcare facilities have a legal requirement to maintain immunisation records on all children attending so need to know who is and who is not vaccinated.

VinLieger

is_that_so wrote: »

Employee discrimination is the issue. I don't know what rules they use but measles has an R0 of 16 and we need about 95% for herd immunity.

EDIT: Childcare facilities have a legal requirement to maintain immunisation records on all children attending so need to know who is and who is not vaccinated.

Could the case then not also be made that they are discriminating against those who are immunocompromised and who cannot get the vaccine by allowing those who chose not to to potentially put them in danger?

wadacrack

Wolf359f wrote: »

1% of our cases are Delta vs ~92% in the UK (incidence rate per 100k of cases are similar)
We have approx ~30% people doses with AZ (hard to know without updated figures) vs 62% in the UK.
Also worth mentioning UK have 43% fully vaccinated vs our ~20%
I'm sure someone good with math can work that all out!

If a variant came along that AZ proved better than mRNA vaccines, would the same people begrudge those who got an mRNA jab? Those who got any kinda vaccine are more protected than those waiting for a first jab!

In relation to efficiency, our dominant strain is Alpha, both AZ & mRNA are equally matched there. When people people start worrying their vaccine may not be effective vs a strain which ATM makes up 1% of our cases..... I don't know what to think. If they had a vaccine 100% effective vs Delta but 60% vs Alpha, would they feel better?

The delta variant is going to dominant in every country at some stage. The denial about variants doesn't do anyone any good. eg. The Kent Variant. Its Christmas etc. This Delta variant is much more serious than that one.

Its race with the vaccines that we seem to be winning atm but I think cases are going to rise pretty quickly in the North where the Delta variant case count has doubled in a week.

Personally i think the UK is in trouble especially in the winter. They have let that variant gain a foothold in the summer which seems pretty risky for a sustainable plan going forward

I would be more optimistic about the outlook here .

Going forward their needs to be sophisticated surveillance of new variants especially until a vast majority are vaccinated with two doses.

is_that_so

VinLieger wrote: »

Could the case then not also be made that they are discriminating against those who are immunocompromised and who cannot get the vaccine by allowing those who chose not to to potentially put them in danger?

What employer is going to risk putting one set of rights up against another? What they do have is control over a safe working environment and whether someone is vaccinated or not is their own business as are details about being immunocompromised. All they can do legally is test people.

VinLieger

is_that_so wrote: »

What employer is going to risk putting one set of rights up against another? What they do have is control over a safe working environment

Literally from the article you posted

It is expected the employee’s rights will trump companies’ rights to create a safe environment for other workers and customers, in the absence of specific legislation or further government guidance.

So no they don't have control over a safe working environment. Like the article suggests government need to legislate for this but I suspect like everything in the past year it will unfortunately be a reactive measure instead of them being proactive and properly preparing for staff returning to workplaces.

Marty Bird

VinLieger wrote: »

Hmm I don't see how this works if schools and creches are allowed ask and stop children attending if they aren't vaccinated?

What schools are stopping children attend if not vaccinated?

Sweet.Science

Does anyone know what our R number is ?

Ficheall

Do employee rights not include the right to a safe workspace?


Looks like we've currently about 25 times as many cases as we did this time last year. When are we hoping to drop below last year's levels - maybe September?

Deeper Blue

wadacrack wrote: »

Personally i think the UK is in trouble especially in the winter. They have let that variant gain a foothold in the summer which seems pretty risky for a sustainable plan going forward

How will they be "in trouble" if they have practically their entire population vaccinated by then? What you're saying makes zero sense.

km79

VinLieger wrote: »

Hmm I don't see how this works if schools and creches are allowed ask and stop children attending if they aren't vaccinated?

They aren’t

wadacrack

Deeper Blue wrote: »

How will they be "in trouble" if they have practically their entire population vaccinated by then? What you're saying makes zero sense.

Read this, it makes perfect sense. Case numbers do matter. If their are huge numbers then a certain percentage will escape the vaccine. This is expected and modellers do account for this.


The vaccines are very on an individual level.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-coronavirus-variant-believed-have-60-transmission-advantage-uk-2021-06-09/

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote: »

Do employee rights not include the right to a safe workspace?


Looks like we've currently about 25 times as many cases as we did this time last year. When are we hoping to drop below last year's levels - maybe September?

We’re testing a lot more than last year and finding cases as opposed to sick people. It’s no big deal.

Vaccines won’t stop cases. The only way this ever ends is when accept the fact that cases don’t matter.

ArthurDayne

wadacrack wrote: »

The delta variant is going to dominant in every country at some stage. The denial about variants doesn't do anyone any good. eg. The Kent Variant. Its Christmas etc. This Delta variant is much more serious than that one.

Its race with the vaccines that we seem to be winning atm but I think cases are going to rise pretty quickly in the North where the Delta variant case count has doubled in a week.

Personally i think the UK is in trouble especially in the winter. They have let that variant gain a foothold in the summer which seems pretty risky for a sustainable plan going forward

I would be more optimistic about the outlook here .

Going forward their needs to be sophisticated surveillance of new variants especially until a vast majority are vaccinated with two doses.

When we say a better outlook for the winter, what do we actually mean by this? If the vaccines work then the effect of the variant gaining a foothold is mitigated by the fact that those most likely to die from it will be vaccinated. There may be high or even severe pressure on the health service in the winter — but the presence of vaccines greatly diminishes the risks and uncertainties that may have prevailed in March 2020.

ArthurDayne

ArthurDayne wrote: »

When we say a better outlook for the winter, what do we actually mean by this? If the vaccines work then the effect of the variant gaining a foothold is mitigated by the fact that those most likely to die from it will be vaccinated. There may be high or even severe pressure on the health service in the winter — but the presence of vaccines greatly diminishes the risks and uncertainties that may have prevailed in March 2020.

And better to let the virus rip through the now vaccinated population to maximize herd immunity before any additional variant comes to the fore.

blackcard

Is it possible that a variant that is less virulent could become the dominant strain?

blackcard

blackcard wrote: »

Is it possible that a variant that is less virulent could become the dominant strain?

If it had a higher portion of undetected cases

wadacrack

ArthurDayne wrote: »

When we say a better outlook for the winter, what do we actually mean by this? If the vaccines work then the effect of the variant gaining a foothold is mitigated by the fact that those most likely to die from it will be vaccinated. There may be high or even severe pressure on the health service in the winter — but the presence of vaccines greatly diminishes the risks and uncertainties that may have prevailed in March 2020.

Low rates of the virus will mean better economic outlook going forward. Saw two rugby games in the UK postponed due to cases. People will still have to self isolate for two week etc. This is obviously very damaging if their are high rates of the virus circulating.

Important for business that its sustainable going forward.

Not as simple as just looking at death rates. We are at a different stage in the pandemic now.

I have said Im optimistic about the outlook here, less so about the UK. I could be wrong. Quite unpredictable but the data in the UK is a little concerning

FintanMcluskey

blackcard wrote: »

Is it possible that a variant that is less virulent could become the dominant strain?

No

The only possible scenario is the worst one

As has been the case since March 2020

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No

The only possible scenario is the worst one

As has been the case since March 2020

If only we had followed the uk as you suggested in March Fintan. Wouldn’t it be great to be announcing delays in further opening and considering going backwards because we couldn’t wait a few more weeks