Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

Mad_maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

Your slipping now Maxx just resorting to calling me crass or obtuse instead to replying to anything I say.

You are wrong to believe that a man and a woman raise better kids than any other mix or number. Plenty of good and bad people came out of all the different connotations

You said I hate gay people, that's crass debating ,I said no such thing

Of course a single parent can do a fine job but nothing beats having a father and mother, it's a pretty sad reflection of things to have to insist on this.

breezy1985

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You said I hate gay people, that's crass debating ,I said no such thing

Of course a single parent can do a fine job but nothing beats having a father and mother, it's a pretty sad reflection of things to have to insist on this.

Where did I say you "hate gay people" stop trying to derail the thread. I am saying a significant number of DUP leadership front runners hate gay people and should be rightly called out on it

Mad_maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

Where did I say you "hate gay people" stop trying to derail the thread. I am saying a significant number of DUP leadership front runners hate gay people and should be rightly called out on it

Don't be coy either , you lumped me in with Sammy Wilson a few pages back

I don't hate gay people and resent the implication

osarusan

For all the shyte she came out with, she was a moderate compared to the rest of the party (too moderate for the rest of the party) and it'll be interesting to see how things go from here.

In hardline Ulster unionism, we're watching a trapped animal flailing about, clawing at itself as it slowly dies...and it chose to go down that path.

lurleen lumpkin

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Don't be coy either , you lumped me in with Sammy Wilson a few pages back

I don't hate gay people and resent the implication

You say you don't hate them yet you don't think they should be afforded the same rights as straight people.

Mad_maxx

osarusan wrote: »

For all the shyte she came out with, she was a moderate compared to the rest of the party (too moderate for the rest of the party) and it'll be interesting to see how things go from here.

In hardline Ulster unionism, we're watching a trapped animal flailing about, clawing at itself as it slowly dies...and it chose to go down that path.

she was a rubbish politician with zero likability , She herself is probably no loss

Mad_maxx

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

You say you don't hate them yet you don't think they should be afforded the same rights as straight people.

that is a loaded statement designed to lead .

i do not hate gay people , believing that a mother and father are the best model for parents is not hatred for gay people

Dyr

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

You say you don't hate them yet you don't think they should be afforded the same rights as straight people.

What rights would they be?

lurleen lumpkin

Bambi wrote: »

What rights would they be?

Adoption

Mad_maxx

Bambi wrote: »

What rights would they be?

a Canadian judge ruled yesterday that three guardians of a child should be registered as parents .

when everything is draped in the language of " rights " , anything can be demanded .

what is so wrong with believing people had the right idea for a very long time ( i.e a mother and father ) ?

Mad_maxx

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Adoption

should two gay married men in their seventies be allowed adopt a two year old girl ?

i mean it would be an attack on their rights to deny them surely ?

breezy1985

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Don't be coy either , you lumped me in with Sammy Wilson a few pages back

I don't hate gay people and resent the implication

Right look you keep trying to drag this off thread so this is the last time I am replying to you unless you have something to say about Foster or the DUP leadership race

Dyr

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Adoption

Nobody has a right to adopt a child. I'm very comfortable with two parent families of a husband and wife being prioritised above others when all other factors are equal. If there was some sort of glut of Irish orphans waiting on homes I might fell differently but its the opposite case.

So yeah, not a human right being denied.

oisinog

Mad_maxx wrote: »

should two gay married men in their seventies be allowed adopt a two year old girl ?

i mean it would be an attack on their rights to deny them surely ?

Should a hetro couple in their seventies be allowed to adopt a Child.

At the end of the day we have a need for foster carers and adoption as long as a married couple or a single person can give them a stable home should we care about the sex of the parent.

I know a same sex couple who have adoped a child and are doing a better job that some hetro couples.

McMurphy

osarusan wrote: »

For all the shyte she came out with, she was a moderate compared to the rest of the party (too moderate for the rest of the party) and it'll be interesting to see how things go from here.

In hardline Ulster unionism, we're watching a trapped animal flailing about, clawing at itself as it slowly dies...and it chose to go down that path.

They can replace her with a more hard-line conservative type of they wish, but I don't see that standing over them in either the long, or short term future, they're merely further marginalising themselves if that's the road they choose imo. The younger moderate generation will most likely veer off to more liberal party's - alliance are mopping up unionist and some nationalist soft votes as is, and then there's the TUV waiting in the wings for hardliners too.

The DUP have reached a very perilous crossroads it would seem.

They're on the cusp of being left behind.

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

should two gay married men in their seventies be allowed adopt a two year old girl ?

i mean it would be an attack on their rights to deny them surely ?

You are being entirely disingenuous with this imo.
I sincerely doubt it has happened, there is strict criteria to adopt.

I only know one gay couple who have adopted, and they are based in the UK. Believe me those kids have a great life, they had a seriously tough start in life, a brother and sister.

I have no desire to adopt myself but if a gay couple can offer a good home and all checks etc are done thoroughly, I have zero issue.
Adoption in Ireland is notoriously difficult
https://www.thejournal.ie/adoption-ireland-usa-4402832-Dec2018/

Anyway...this is way way off topic.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

They can replace her with a more hard-line conservative type of they wish, but I don't see that standing over them in either the long, or short term future, they're merely further marginalising themselves if that's the road they choose imo. The younger moderate generation will most likely veer off to more liberal party's - alliance are mopping up unionist and some nationalist soft votes as is, and then there's the TUV waiting in the wings for hardliners too.

The DUP have reached a very perilous crossroads it would seem.

They're on the cusp of being left behind.

It will be evident very soon which way they want to go. Choose Poots and it is a move to the side-lines and I suspect they will try to ferment revolution from there. I point to the very obvious switching off of the street violence, that may have been as much about internal DUP jockeying as anything else.

If a Donaldson or Robinson takes the helm, I think you'll see the gradual standing down of opposition to the Protocol with them probably claiming it was their idea in 5 years or so.

gmisk

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/04/28/edwin-poots-currently-bookies-favourite-to-be-next-dup-leader/

Poots looks to be favourite

Dyr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It will be evident very soon which way they want to go. Choose Poots and it is a move to the side-lines and I suspect they will try to ferment revolution from there. I point to the very obvious switching off of the street violence, that may have been as much about internal DUP jockeying as anything else.

If a Donaldson or Robinson takes the helm, I think you'll see the gradual standing down of opposition to the Protocol with them probably claiming it was their idea in 5 years or so.

Can't really see the DUP MLAs going with either given that they've booted Arlene out.

Robinsons worked as a leader because his standing with the hardliners meant he could keep them in line but also be a cute hoor and compromise where necessary. Don't see anyone in the DUP whos capable of riding both those tigers now

McMurphy

gmisk wrote: »

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/04/28/edwin-poots-currently-bookies-favourite-to-be-next-dup-leader/

Poots looks to be favourite

Does he need the hassle ? Didn't I read he has health problems recently?

FrancieBrady

Bambi wrote: »

Can't really see the DUP MLAs going with either given that they've booted Arlene out.

Robinsons worked as a leader because his standing with the hardliners meant he could keep them in line but also be a cute hoor and compromise where necessary. Don't see anyone in the DUP whos capable of riding both those tigers now

It's a sign of how directionless and confused Unionism is that we can't work out if the DUP want to go more hardline or soften the image and try to recover from a strategic mess.

gmisk

I think the below quote from David Irvine was pretty much on the nose when it came to the DUP.
"These people are not to be trusted, their interest does not lie in Northern Ireland, their interest is self-interest."

gmisk

McMurphy wrote: »

Does he need the hassle ? Didn't I read he has health problems recently?

All the speculation seems to be around him, but who knows

FrancieBrady

gmisk wrote: »

All the speculation seems to be around him, but who knows

Is Poots a stalking horse for somebody else.
Has Donaldson or Robinson said anything yet?
Too early to call it IMO.

oisinog

gmisk wrote: »

I think the below quote from David Irvine was pretty much on the nose when it came to the DUP.
"These people are not to be trusted, their interest does not lie in Northern Ireland, their interest is self-interest."

I think this could have been part of the issue with Arelene, she may have come across as a female dog but I think she saw the writing on the wall when it comes to constitutional change in Northern Ireland.

She wanted Northern Ireland to work but her party are out to line their own pockets

O'Neill

This man could be the next leader (and possibly First Minister).

Good grief

gmisk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is Poots a stalking horse for somebody else.
Has Donaldson or Robinson said anything yet?
Too early to call it IMO.

Robinson had a very bland tweet
https://twitter.com/GRobinsonDUP/status/1387433476954206210?s=19
(Seemingly he has a more scathing one he deleted)
Donaldson's one was a lot more glowing on Arlene
https://twitter.com/J_Donaldson_MP/status/1387458298304204806?s=19

Seemingly the newsletter will have names of who signed the letter on Friday that will be interesting!

Seemingly Sammy Wilson refused to sign it.

oisinog

gmisk wrote: »

Seemingly Sammy Wilson refused to sign it.

Probably didn't read it and think it was for something covid related, or he cant spell his name

(before anyone calls me out on this I have had personal dealings with Sammy and he called me several things I couldnt repeat here)

Wilson seems to be the Mattie McGrath of the DUP. Lot of red-faced rants, but that’s about it. A gombeen man.

FrancieBrady

Seemingly Sammy Wilson refused to sign it.

The Nal

gmisk wrote: »

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/04/28/edwin-poots-currently-bookies-favourite-to-be-next-dup-leader/

Poots looks to be favourite

There should be laws in place that mean he is legally insane so can't run for office.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wilson seems to be the Mattie McGrath of the DUP. Lot of red-faced rants, but that’s about it. A gombeen man.

That plays well to the core DUP vote.
Trust me....I am originally from near Ballymena....lol

Mad_maxx

gmisk wrote: »

You are being entirely disingenuous with this imo.
I sincerely doubt it has happened, there is strict criteria to adopt.

I only know one gay couple who have adopted, and they are based in the UK. Believe me those kids have a great life, they had a seriously tough start in life, a brother and sister.

I have no desire to adopt myself but if a gay couple can offer a good home and all checks etc are done thoroughly, I have zero issue.
Adoption in Ireland is notoriously difficult
https://www.thejournal.ie/adoption-ireland-usa-4402832-Dec2018/

Anyway...this is way way off topic.

The " rights " fundamentalists shut down debate on what is acceptable, it's whatever anyone wants and that's the end of it according to them

They don't get to be all precious when specific questions are asked

FrancieBrady

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The " rights " fundamentalists shut down debate on what is acceptable, it's whatever anyone wants and that's the end of it according to them

They don't get to be all precious when specific questions are asked

Says somebody whose rights are protected.

We achieved rights here, contrary to the moral scaremongers the world didn't fall apart when people were allowed to, for example, bring their marriages to a dignified end and people could move on etc. It didn't devalue or make more precarious my marriage or anyone else's...I could list all the other scaremongering on other issues, but you get the drift.

oisinog

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The " rights " fundamentalists shut down debate on what is acceptable, it's whatever anyone wants and that's the end of it according to them

They don't get to be all precious when specific questions are asked

This is the thing what someone see as aceptable may not be acceptable to a larger demorgaphic of people.

At one point Slavery was acceptable and now its not, times change and people need to move on with the changes. It is also correct that people should discuss what is acceptable and what is not that is how things change.

Alothough this is off topic it does touch in to what is wrong with the DUP they have their own view of what is acceptable in this world and are unwilling to listen to the wider population.

awec

Wilson is the DUPs go-to man for bluster.

Not sure leadership would be his thing.

breezy1985

awec wrote: »

Wilson is the DUPs go-to man for bluster.

Not sure leadership would be his thing.

I would say he is happy where he is. Leadership is too precarious for him

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The " rights " fundamentalists shut down debate on what is acceptable, it's whatever anyone wants and that's the end of it according to them

They don't get to be all precious when specific questions are asked

Who are these "rights fundamentalists"?
Is it people on this thread? I don't think I have been precious I have answered your questions and I think others have done the same.

Ok done with this it's off topic so will stop

bilston

Would Poots drift further to the right? I'm not sure. If he actually became leader and FM he might row back a bit.

Donaldson is probably the most moderate, although I'm not really sure where Gavin Robinson sits on the DUP political spectrum.

This is dangerous for the DUP. They could move to the right to win back TUV voters, only to lose more voters to the UUP or Alliance Party. I think the most likely outcome here is a SF First Minister in 2022 (possibly this year if the Executive collapses) and a big increase in support for the Alliance Party. But the TUV might go the way of the Brexit Party in England in 2019.

breezy1985

bilston wrote: »

Would Poots drift further to the right? I'm not sure. If he actually became leader and FM he might row back a bit.

Donaldson is probably the most moderate, although I'm not really sure where Gavin Robinson sits on the DUP political spectrum.

This is dangerous for the DUP. They could move to the right to win back TUV voters, only to lose more voters to the UUP or Alliance Party. I think the most likely outcome here is a SF First Minister in 2022 (possibly this year if the Executive collapses) and a big increase in support for the Alliance Party. But the TUV might go the way of the Brexit Party in England in 2019.

The TUV are the remnants of the no surrender brigade and the closer things look to a UI the stronger they will get. They will thrive off the could "threat to our way of life" stuff in some areas.

I would say the Alliance are praying for Poots as rowing back ain't his thing and it will definitely send a fair portion of moderates their way

blanch152

"There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home."

Those are the fine words of Arlene Foster. When I see all the bile spouted about her on here, I struggle to see what motivates it other than bigotry.

BonnieSituation

bilston wrote: »

Would Poots drift further to the right? I'm not sure. If he actually became leader and FM he might row back a bit.

Donaldson is probably the most moderate, although I'm not really sure where Gavin Robinson sits on the DUP political spectrum.

This is dangerous for the DUP. They could move to the right to win back TUV voters, only to lose more voters to the UUP or Alliance Party. I think the most likely outcome here is a SF First Minister in 2022 (possibly this year if the Executive collapses) and a big increase in support for the Alliance Party. But the TUV might go the way of the Brexit Party in England in 2019.

It's eating itself. This is the endgame for Unionism. The extremist element's are gonna back themselves further and further into a corner.

I can't say that I'm not absolutely delighted.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

"There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home."

Those are the fine words of Arlene Foster. When I see all the bile spouted about her on here, I struggle to see what motivates it other than bigotry.

Another one to add to the list.....

What bile?

On this thread?

Have you reported it?

Can you link to it?

breezy1985

blanch152 wrote: »

"There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home."

Those are the fine words of Arlene Foster. When I see all the bile spouted about her on here, I struggle to see what motivates it other than bigotry.

The words of a woman who is happy to divide people legally between straight and gay

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

"There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home."

Those are the fine words of Arlene Foster. When I see all the bile spouted about her on here, I struggle to see what motivates it other than bigotry.

Jesus. Have you only heard of Arlene Foster today?

randy hickey

Is there any truth to the rumour that I am starting here, that FF are considering approaching Arlene to run as their candidate in the 2025 Presidential Election?

After all, she ticks all the boxes:

- Has the cúpla focal
- Is sound on the national question
- Female
- Has experience on the international stage
- Au fait with constitutional law
- Christian

McMurphy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Jesus. Have you only heard of Arlene Foster today?

Reading online on various sites, seems there's some very bitter partitionists and unionists trying to canonise Arlene unaware of her previous, there's no doubt she's somewhat more liberal and moderate than others in her party - but yesterday's statement doesn't take away from many of her others.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Reading online on various sites, seems there's some very bitter partitionists and unionists trying to canonise Arlene unaware of her previous, there's no doubt she's somewhat more liberal and moderate than others in her party - but yesterday's statement doesn't take away from many of her others.

The leader who in just the most recent example, stood calmly by and allowed one of her senior ministers to invent terror threats and stoke violence will now be hailed as a moderate, invited to speak at conferences and be applauded by those seeking to politically damage others. They are welcome to each other imo.

Ireland of the hypocrisies.

gmisk

blanch152 wrote: »

"There are people in Northern Ireland with a British identity, others are Irish, others are Northern Irish, others are a mixture of all three and some are new and emerging. We must all learn to be generous to each other, live together and share this wonderful country.

The future of unionism and Northern Ireland will not be found in division, it will only be found in sharing this place we all are privileged to call home."

Those are the fine words of Arlene Foster. When I see all the bile spouted about her on here, I struggle to see what motivates it other than bigotry.

One well worded part of a speech does not excuse the other things she has said and done (or indeed not done) imo....

I haven't seen much bile tbh, she is a moderate compared to others in the DUP which many people have highlighted.

Poots would be massive step back in time (not that massive though...he only thinks the world is 6000 years old)

FrancieBrady

gmisk wrote: »

One well worded part of a speech does not excuse the other things she has said and done (or indeed not done) imo....

It's platitudinous political speak at it's best. A perfect foil for those who want to ignore realities.