Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

rockatansky

We really need Joe Biden to hammer home to Boris Johnston during his visit to the UK that there can be no deviation from the Good Friday agreement under any circumstances.

padd b1975

10000maniacs wrote: »

Some outlets are saying Edwin Poots will be elected as leader.
Poots comes from world he believes to be less than 10,000 years old - where a woman's role has traditionally been to take care of the children and make the tea in the Orange hall for the men returning from a hard days marching.
When Foster was elected as leader in 2016, he quipped that her greatest achievement was as a mother to her kids.
True or not, a very sexist thing to say.

Hardly a lone ranger with that mindset in the DUP.

gmisk

10000maniacs wrote: »

Some outlets are saying Edwin Poots will be elected as leader.
Poots comes from world he believes to be less than 10,000 years old - where a woman's role has traditionally been to take care of the children and make the tea in the Orange hall for the men returning from a hard days marching.

He thinks the world is about 6000 years old....
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/creationist-beliefs-wont-affect-new-role-poots-28492087.html


Good summary of him
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/northern-ireland-edwin-poots-creationist-anti-gay

10000maniacs

gmisk wrote: »

He thinks the world is about 6000 years old....
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/creationist-beliefs-wont-affect-new-role-poots-28492087.html


Good summary of him
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/northern-ireland-edwin-poots-creationist-anti-gay

I suppose he will be a lamb to the slaughter in any debate. Just throw that flat Earth stuff back at him and he has lost the debate.
He will be a United Ireland's greatest ally (obviously unintentionally).

Tyrone212

briany wrote: »

None of you asked for it, but here's Jamie Bryson's take

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1387433348663029761

Not that Bryson ever had much of a mask to slip off, but plainly stating that Unionism ought to be against the GFA is really laying the cards out on the table.

We're scared a border poll may happen and even more scared we might lose so we want no part in democracy when it goes against us. We want to go back to the glory days of apartheid, were individual merits didn't matter, if you were orange you were winning...

hometruths

Tyrone212 wrote: »

We're scared a border poll may happen and even more scared we might lose so we want no part in democracy when it goes against us. We want to go back to the glory days of apartheid, were individual merits didn't matter, if you were orange you were winning...

I think you might be right. As long as unionism showed the kind of poll numbers it was in late 90s, the GFA could be tolerated. But now writing is on the wall, so they have no option now other than defying it.

Faugheen

It's mental that Arlene Foster leaving the DUP is bad news.

What's more mental that I think most didn't realise just how moderate she is (in DUP terms) until these last few days.

Baseball72

Arlene joined the DUP from the "original " Unionist party of David Trimble etc.....I think the main contenders to take over would be much more hard line than Arlene could ever have been.

Kermit.de.frog

...

MadYaker

suicide_circus wrote: »

True but the visceral hatred on display here....

Visceral hatred is a bit much I haven't seen any of that. The DUP are the target of ire here, not unionists or northern irish people.

Junkyard Tom

randy hickey wrote: »

Any UI would have to accomodate them.

There will be no special treatment for that bunch in a United Ireland. If anything a United Ireland will be a golden opportunity to further secularise the whole country.

breezy1985

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There will be no special treatment for that bunch in a United Ireland. If anything a United Ireland will be a golden opportunity to further secularise the whole country.

I'll be voting against any UI that involves pandering to flat earth homophobes

Kaybaykwah

10000maniacs wrote: »

Some outlets are saying Edwin Poots will be elected as leader.
Poots comes from world he believes to be less than 10,000 years old - where a woman's role has traditionally been to take care of the children and make the tea in the Orange hall for the men returning from a hard days marching.
When Foster was elected as leader in 2016, he quipped that her greatest achievement was as a mother to her kids.
True or not, a very sexist thing to say.

Yer Edwin Poots makes Elmer Fudd pass for a Nobel in Astrophysics. They both have outstanding names, by the way.

golfball37

Gas to think RTÉ censored Joe Brolly because he claimed the dup were homophobic, meanwhile they get rid of their leader because she wasn’t homophobic enough

seligehgit

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Edwin Poots Vs Jeffrey Donaldson

Surely Jeffrey Donaldson would be the stand out candidate to become DUP leader as opposed to first minister.

A reasonable moderate.

Probably has no chance as he's old UUP and not hardline enough.

lurleen lumpkin

seligehgit wrote: »

Surely Jeffrey Donaldson would be the stand out candidate to become DUP leader as opposed to first minister.

A reasonable moderate.

Probably has no chance as he's old UUP and not hardline enough.

Oust Arlene because she isn't homophobic enough, replace her with Jeffrey. You couldn't write this stuff.

bilbot79

Jeffrey in debate is much more formidable in an 'old' Northern Irish backwards politics way. I think DUP will lose voters to Alliance going forward

retalivity

briany wrote: »

None of you asked for it, but here's Jamie Bryson's take

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1387433348663029761

Not that Bryson ever had much of a mask to slip off, but plainly stating that Unionism ought to be against the GFA is really laying the cards out on the table.

I forgot all about that clown. The fact he has any sway in discussion of NI politics is nearly as bad as having a first minister who thinks that god buried the dinosaur skeletons as a test.

awec

briany wrote: »

None of you asked for it, but here's Jamie Bryson's take

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1387433348663029761

Not that Bryson ever had much of a mask to slip off, but plainly stating that Unionism ought to be against the GFA is really laying the cards out on the table.

Bryson does not speak for unionism.

Compared to nationalism the unionist side of things is a lot more fragmented and diverse in terms of the opinions held. Bryson is only really indicative, and representative, of one section of it.

Even the DUP, with their electoral success the past 15-20 years, have never really been broadly representative of the unionist community. There are more unionists that don't vote for them that do, it's just that the majority that don't vote for them don't vote for anyone else instead. There's a huge silent chunk of moderate unionists who struggle with NI politics.

breezy1985

awec wrote: »

Bryson does not speak for unionism.

Compared to nationalism the unionist side of things is a lot more fragmented and diverse in terms of the opinions held. Bryson is only really indicative, and representative, of one section of it.

Even the DUP, with their electoral success the past 15-20 years, have never really been broadly representative of the unionist community. There are more unionists that don't vote for them that do, it's just that the majority that don't vote for them don't vote for anyone else instead. There's a huge silent chunk of moderate unionists who struggle with NI politics.

So this silent majority have a chance to vote against the Young Earth homophobes but decide to stay home.

Doesn't say a lot about these "good" unionists in my book

snowstorm445

I remember watching Poots in an interview a few years ago, during one of the UK general elections. I have to say, as bad as the likes of Sammy Wilson is, he at least seems to have a bit of a charisma and fieriness (in DUP terms of course). Poots on the other hand comes across as remarkably joyless and dour, in that almost cartoonishly Ulster Protestant sort of way (its a stereotype, I know, but he really lives it out). Very much from the "lock up the playgrounds on Sunday" stripe of unionism. The creationist stuff really just completes the image.

MadYaker

I don't follow NI politics that closely so I'm finding it hard to understand the DUP. Did they completely miss the fact that Boris and his cabinet don't care one jot about the north and neither do the tory voters? The quasi border was always going to be between the two islands because the only people that doesn't suit is the NI unionists (ie a very small minority) Brexit was always going to be an attempt to square a circle for the unionists but surely they could have played it better than this?

awec

breezy1985 wrote: »

So this silent majority have a chance to vote against the Young Earth homophobes but decide to stay home.

Doesn't say a lot about these "good" unionists in my book

Vote against by voting for who? Alliance? They lack viable candidates in most places. UUP? Basically an uninspiring party of pensioners these days. PUP? Too much baggage.

Mad_maxx

golfball37 wrote: »

Gas to think RTÉ censored Joe Brolly because he claimed the dup were homophobic, meanwhile they get rid of their leader because she wasn’t homophobic enough

Brolly has become a bit of a parrot when it comes to the DUP , everyone knows the DUP are very socially conservative ?

pointing the finger at them for their traditional views on matters sexuality is a bit jaded at this stage and not exactly insightful commentary

breezy1985

awec wrote: »

Vote against by voting for who? Alliance? They lack viable candidates in most places. UUP? Basically an uninspiring party of pensioners these days. PUP? Too much baggage.

What is a "viable" candidate ?
If there is an Alliance or green candidate or a UUP one who is not a homophobic science denying nut then yes.

I have rarely felt represented by any political party and have often voted against not for so I think there is no excuse

Fionn1952

retalivity wrote: »

I forgot all about that clown. The fact he has any sway in discussion of NI politics is nearly as bad as having a first minister who thinks that god buried the dinosaur skeletons as a test.

The responsibility for any sway that absolute no-mark seems to have in NI politics lies firmly at the feet of Stephen Nolan who has continually given him a platform far outstripping his real world influence to create more view-generating controversy for his own awful shows

Mad_maxx

awec wrote: »

Bryson does not speak for unionism.

Compared to nationalism the unionist side of things is a lot more fragmented and diverse in terms of the opinions held. Bryson is only really indicative, and representative, of one section of it.

Even the DUP, with their electoral success the past 15-20 years, have never really been broadly representative of the unionist community. There are more unionists that don't vote for them that do, it's just that the majority that don't vote for them don't vote for anyone else instead. There's a huge silent chunk of moderate unionists who struggle with NI politics.

a recent example of that " silent chunk " was how the ulster farmers association came out in opposition to brexit , the ulster farmers association is overwhelmingly unionist yet appears quite practical when it comes to North South relations , this is a rural constituency quite obviously yet is not a " hard brexit " advocacy group by any means so its indeed true that many unionists are not DUP dinosaur types

afro man

Shelga wrote: »

Surprised they’re turning on her, she perfectly represents what they are all about- intransigence, blind nativism, bigotry and flag-waving.

Dont worry there is alot worse than arlene lurking withen the Dup

lurleen lumpkin

Mad_maxx wrote: »

pointing the finger at them for their traditional views on matters sexuality is a bit jaded at this stage and not exactly insightful commentary

Eh?

MadYaker

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a recent example of that " silent chunk " was how the ulster farmers association came out in opposition to brexit , the ulster farmers association is overwhelmingly unionist yet appears quite practical when it comes to North South relations , this is a rural constituency quite obviously yet is not a " hard brexit " advocacy group by any means so its indeed true that many unionists are not DUP dinosaur types

Why do these people stay silent and allow the lunatics to run the place into the ground? Or back to the 70s...

FrancieBrady

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Brolly has become a bit of a parrot when it comes to the DUP , everyone knows the DUP are very socially conservative ?

pointing the finger at them for their traditional views on matters sexuality is a bit jaded at this stage and not exactly insightful commentary

I think anyone in the LGBTQ community will tell you the DUP are very much homophobic in denial of rights and in many statement and comments they have made.

Mad_maxx

MadYaker wrote: »

Why do these people stay silent and allow the lunatics to run the place into the ground? Or back to the 70s...

I suppose farmers are usually religious and Protestant farmers in Northern Ireland like some of the DUP manifesto?

The UUP are pretty mainstream on many issues, strange they can't make some kind of comeback, poor leaders I suppose?

Mad_maxx

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think anyone in the LGBTQ community will tell you the DUP are very much homophobic in denial of rights and in many statement and comments they have made.

I'm saying brolly braying about what everyone knows is tiresome .

The DUP won't be influenced by WOKEness, they aren't like our political class, far from it

Mad_maxx

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Eh?

It's pointless doing what Brolly does, progressive cultural issues are not important to DUP voters

lurleen lumpkin

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's pointless doing what Brolly does, progressive cultural issues are not important to DUP voters

Homophobia needs called out until it stops occurring. DUP voters will have to adjust or get left even further behind.

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's pointless doing what Brolly does, progressive cultural issues are not important to DUP voters

Bizarre to classify equality as a cultural issue....

FrancieBrady

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm saying brolly braying about what everyone knows is tiresome .

The DUP won't be influenced by WOKEness, they aren't like our political class, far from it

Human rights for a sizeable cohort of people is 'wokeness'?

Ger off the soap box, the DUP are as open to criticism as anybody else is.

Never heard the bate of that....'shure they are Nazi's, it's what they do, leave em alone...everybody knows what they're like'.

Bass Reeves

breezy1985 wrote: »

Behind closed doors vote among the MLPs and MPs. Not unlike the voting for the pope

I wonder what other party on the island has a selection process something like that. Maybe anointing there leaders and then having a confirmation vote..........

Army Council anointment, one candidate put forward to Ard Deis for confirmation.....
Nah it couldn't be

Mad_maxx

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Homophobia needs called out until it stops occurring. DUP voters will have to adjust or get left even further behind.

Elaborate on what you mean by "left behind " ?

Mad_maxx

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Human rights for a sizeable cohort of people is 'wokeness'?

Ger off the soap box, the DUP are as open to criticism as anybody else is.

Never heard the bate of that....'shure they are Nazi's, it's what they do, leave em alone...everybody knows what they're like'.

So you think yelling " homophoebe " at the DUP is likely to achieve something Politically?

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

So you think yelling " homophoebe " at the DUP is likely to achieve something Politically?

Calling out homophobic behaviour...is not yelling "homophoebe".
God forbid LGBT people should have equality in their own country, if the DUP had their way marriage equality would never have been brought in.

lurleen lumpkin

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Elaborate on what you mean by "left behind " ?

They're regressive. Their voter base is ageing out and isn't being replaced.

FrancieBrady

Mad_maxx wrote: »

So you think yelling " homophoebe " at the DUP is likely to achieve something Politically?

Who was 'yelling'?

He was trying to make a point on a show he was invited on to. He wasn't allowed to because apparently telling the truth is deemed offensive by RTE as there was nobody there to defend the party (but who later in the same show allowed another party to be spoken off offensively with no right of reply, a number of times BTW) If he achieved the loss of votes to the DUP by describing how they are perceived then he would have achieved something politically.

eddie73

This happened very quickly. I suppose politics can be like that. I have mixed feelings about it. I think the DUP are a Stone Aged party that could cause a lot of trouble for the Republic and Northern Ireland going forward in the months ahead. I think that Arlene was a moderate influence within this party. She appeared quite reasonable when interviewed. For that reason I think that she will be missed, quite badly actually. This is in comparison to those who are ready to take power within the DUP.

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Elaborate on what you mean by "left behind " ?

I would take it as their core voting base is becoming increasingly small and is aging, people especially younger people are generally more progressive in their outlooks.
The DUP is looking increasingly like a dinosaur with regards their policies and politics thankfully.
Like other people on here said, Arlene Foster would be a moderate in the DUP, chances are the next leader will be a lot less (e.g. Poots)

Mad_maxx

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

They're regressive. Their voter base is ageing out and isn't being replaced.

Ah ok , thank you for clarifying, they are only around since circa 1970 , perhaps they will die out but it's unlikely to be wise to bludgeon socially conservative unionists into supporting progressive values

They aren't going to turn into Soc Dems overnight

FrancieBrady

gmisk wrote: »

I would take it as their core voting base is becoming increasingly small and is aging, people especially younger people are generally more progressive in their outlooks.
The DUP is looking increasingly like a dinosaur with regards their policies and politics thankfully.

I'm wondering have we reached the 'well maybe' stage of the 'Never Never ...well maybe' DUP behaviour since the GFA.

They appoint a new leadership and slowly step back from the Protocol objections and protests. Somebody has taken the protestors off the streets, it all stopped as if it was on a switch.

Even they must realise they have lost on the border.

Junkyard Tom

The DUP's main problem is it's the 21st Century and there's not a whole lot that can be done to change that. Unionism will surely have to split into a modern, liberally-minded, wing and an Old Testament type wing.

breezy1985

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ah ok , thank you for clarifying, they are only around since circa 1970 , perhaps they will die out but it's unlikely to be wise to bludgeon socially conservative unionists into supporting progressive values

They aren't going to turn into Soc Dems overnight

"socially conservative" is a very sanitised way of saying homophobic bigots.

gmisk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ah ok , thank you for clarifying, they are only around since circa 1970 , perhaps they will die out but it's unlikely to be wise to bludgeon socially conservative unionists into supporting progressive values

They aren't going to turn into Soc Dems overnight

I don't think anyone would suggest they will turn into the social democrats or a more progressive party in the short term.
But if they do go more conservative with someone like Poots it would be a mistake imo, it's an increasingly small pond and other parties are in that area e.g. TUV (they will likely run a few more candidates in next elections).

A good example of the conflict in the DUP would be the below
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/council/shock-and-discomfort-dup-ranks-over-gay-councillor-977727
There was a lot of strife in the party behind the scenes seemingly as well.

Arlene foster is/was a moderating influence in a number of areas
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-defends-decision-to-go-to-landmark-lgbt-event-and-says-dup-may-have-lesbian-and-gay-representatives-37024987.html