Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

OwenM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Glynn in fairness seems more reasonable - it was the same last year when he was in charge.

When in Tony H due back? You can be sure he will be demanding level 5.x again the instant he's back in charge! :rolleyes:

That old (by now) joke about Holohan in charge of the Road Safety Authority comes to mind, national speed limit 20km/hr, everyone has to wear helmets, even when parked and remember - "The next bend is crucial"

_Kaiser_

OwenM wrote: »

That old (by now) joke about Holohan in charge of the Road Safety Authority comes to mind, national speed limit 20km/hr, everyone has to wear helmets, even when parked and remember - "The next bend is crucial"

Well if Dublin CC get their way, most of the city will be 30 km/h soon :rolleyes:

PintOfView

TomSweeney wrote: »

Fantasy!? did you see the video of the Canadian politician gaslighting people saying if they have friends over they are "putting lives in danger" - absolute hyperbole drivel.


She wants these people thrown in jail - she is dangerous.


And Fauci basing policy on a "what if" ... not based on evidence or science (whatever that means nowadays, it's just as dogmatic as religion it seems) - dangerous times.

Your first sentence, in your original comment, about Oregon was inaccurate, and downright misleading. You then went on to say Canada was becoming Fascist, and mentioning "Evil evil people", etc.

I don't know whether you were particularly wound up after looking at some youtube video or something, but your comments are exactly how disinformation and wrong thinking are sown.

We have a real situation on our hands. Lots of people (government, nphet, the health service, etc) are doing everything they can to deal with it.
Meanwhile lots of people are stuck at home frustrated, and understandably.

However it doesn't help for people to be making up stuff, or taking things out of context (and you may have been just quoting what you saw).
If we all try to stick to reality it has to be much better and healthier that the alternative!

OwenM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well if Dublin CC get their way, most of the city will be 30 km/h soon :rolleyes:

Owen Keegan is driving that, he was also promoting the white water rafting lunacy, a true died in the wool Green.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-city-council-chief-executive-apologises-for-secret-meeting-with-eamon-ryan-1015522.html

thebaz

Lots of good news the past week, and the Indo headlines with more fear inducing stuff about 'Double mutant'. - then goes on to say not sure if it is any more dangerous, and experts warn about not over-reacting and 'Not Freaking out' .
What irresposnible journalism, the Indo was a decent paper now like a red top, anything for a headline or a click.
Ther is already far too much anxiety in our society today.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/2021-to-become-year-of-the-variant-as-double-mutantindian-strain-detected-in-ireland-40333050.html

OwenM

thebaz wrote: »

Lots of good news the past week, and the Indo headlines with more fear inducing stuff about 'Double mutant'. - then goes on to say not sure if it is any more dangerous, and experts warn about not over-reacting and 'Not Freaking.
What irresposible jounalism, the Indo was a decent paper now like a red top.
Ther is already far too much anxiety in our society today.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/2021-to-become-year-of-the-variant-as-double-mutantindian-strain-detected-in-ireland-40333050.html

I suppose they are glad of a break from 'climate fear'

Silentcorner

thebaz wrote: »

Lots of good news the past week, and the Indo headlines with more fear inducing stuff about 'Double mutant'. - then goes on to say not sure if it is any more dangerous, and experts warn about not over-reacting and 'Not Freaking out' .
What irresposnible journalism, the Indo was a decent paper now like a red top, anything for a headline or a click.
Ther is already far too much anxiety in our society today.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/2021-to-become-year-of-the-variant-as-double-mutantindian-strain-detected-in-ireland-40333050.html

I think people need to understand just how toxic the media industry has become...it's just pumping out hysteria.

Remember the hysteria about Brexit?

Consuming media these days is actually bad for your health.

JDD

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think people need to understand just how toxic the media industry has become...it's just pumping out hysteria.

Remember the hysteria about Brexit?

Consuming media these days is actually bad for your health.

I subscribed to the Indo when covid broke out and ended my subscription after they did an article on covid risks in children the day the primary schools opened. Same as the article you were talking about - the headline was pure clickbait and then the article basically refuted what the headline was insinuating. To add to it, they included a pic of a child in a hospital bed. I actually thought it was bordering on criminally negligent to print stuff like that.

The internet has ruined newspapers. To survive, they must get the clickbait advertising. The only way you are going to get unbiased news now, is to subscribe to a news site that is entirely behind a paid firewall. It's sad but there it is.

Silentcorner

JDD wrote: »

I subscribed to the Indo when covid broke out and ended my subscription after they did an article on covid risks in children the day the primary schools opened. Same as the article you were talking about - the headline was pure clickbait and then the article basically refuted what the headline was insinuating. To add to it, they included a pic of a child in a hospital bed. I actually thought it was bordering on criminally negligent to print stuff like that.

The internet has ruined newspapers. To survive, they must get the clickbait advertising. The only way you are going to get unbiased news now, is to subscribe to a news site that is entirely behind a paid firewall. It's sad but there it is.

I think this is a very important action to take, as soon as you recognise that a media company is behaving in a manner that is clearly unbalanced you must have the discipline to disengage.

RTE's Claire Byrne had Sam "the expert" McConkey, a household name thanks to his exposure on media and a noted fear monger...where both claimed not to know who John Ioannidis was....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ioannidis

That is a moment where RTE are telling you they are completely unbalanced, it is then up to yourself if you wish to continue consuming their content.

I don't however share your optimism about paid for content....I fell into that trap years ago when I bought the IT most days...

Standards in media have always been low, now they are dangerously low.

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

Irish data is available on euromomo, the peaks look to be about twice that of a moderate flu season, but the actual numbers annualised, well that's for the actuaries and statisticians to argue over, but the numbers look fairly flat, as in there were very little. (Arrows and labels are mine.)

When averaged over a larger sample, such as a full continent, the picture is clear. Euromomo participant countries have an excess death rate (550k)that closely aligns with covid deaths in the area covered (646k).

The fact that excess death rate in Ireland might be below average is irrelevant. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of stats knows that the larger the sample (440m in Euromomo vs 5 million in Ireland), the more accurately you can estimate the true proportion. Local variations average out over a broad area.

Expected cardiovascular deaths within the same countries is 550k per year. Covid, so far, has been a years worth of cardiovascular related deaths. With lockdowns.



Datasources:
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/
https://ourworldindata.org/

DellyBelly

DellyBelly wrote: »

They are talking about this so called Indian variant on rte news. Sounds serious. Everytime I feel I see the light at the end of the tunnel a bit of bad news comes out to dampen my optimism..

More chance getting a variant from a dodgy vindaloo from your local Indian takeaway

Graces7

Penfailed wrote: »

They were talking about it on LBC yesterday evening. This isn't RTE scaremongering and it isn't only Ireland talking about it.

Thank you and I echo this. We have extended family out there and they are in strictest lockdown now. This as you rightly say is very serious for India and for the wider world.

OwenM

Deleted User wrote: »

When averaged over a larger sample, such as a full continent, the picture is clear. Euromomo participant countries have an excess death rate (550k)that closely aligns with covid deaths in the area covered (646k).

The fact that excess death rate in Ireland might be below average is irrelevant. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of stats knows that the larger the sample (440m in Euromomo vs 5 million in Ireland), the more accurately you can estimate the true proportion. Local variations average out over a broad area.

Expected cardiovascular deaths within the same countries is 550k per year. Covid, so far, has been a years worth of cardiovascular related deaths. With lockdowns.



Datasources:
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/
https://ourworldindata.org/

When averaged over a larger sample

I despair, so the actual numbers don't matter

ingo1984

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you and I echo this. We have extended family out there and they are in strictest lockdown now. This as you rightly say is very serious for India and for the wider world.

No its not. There is zero evidence to suggest it is more dangerous or more transmissible. What is driving the India case numbers is people started ignoring distancing, masks etc and this was driven at governemnt level who were praising they were out of the woods and encouraged people to attend local elections, religious festivals etc. There were 130,000 crammed in for a cricket match for flip sake. Thousands attending religious ceremonies. Sure no wonder cases are on the rise.

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

I despair, so the actual numbers don't matter

Why do the actual number s for an entire continent not matter?

OwenM

Deleted User wrote: »

When averaged over a larger sample, such as a full continent, the picture is clear. Euromomo participant countries have an excess death rate (550k)that closely aligns with covid deaths in the area covered (646k).

The fact that excess death rate in Ireland might be below average is irrelevant. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of stats knows that the larger the sample (440m in Euromomo vs 5 million in Ireland), the more accurately you can estimate the true proportion. Local variations average out over a broad area.

Expected cardiovascular deaths within the same countries is 550k per year. Covid, so far, has been a years worth of cardiovascular related deaths. With lockdowns.



Datasources:
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/
https://ourworldindata.org/

So all cause mortality is nearly 20% less than declared covid deaths, and you call that closely aligned, that's a deranged statement.

OwenM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do the actual number s for an entire continent not matter?

I'm talking about the actual numbers for Ireland.

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

I'm talking about the actual numbers for Ireland.

In other words you want to ignore what doesn't suit your argument. Common trait.

Why anyone could think that analysis of excess deaths in Europe is not applicable to understanding the actual and potential impacts of the pandemic to Ireland is beyond comprehension. And anyone who claims to understand data but fails to understand that the more data that is included, the less the impact of local variations on the analysis of that data doesn't really understand data

RGS

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Glynn in fairness seems more reasonable - it was the same last year when he was in charge.

When in Tony H due back? You can be sure he will be demanding level 5.x again the instant he's back in charge! :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/dr-tony-holohan-returns-to-work-as-chief-medical-officer-1.4542281


To answer your question hes back at work.

Beanybabog

Does anyone know if the easing of restrictions goes ahead in the next few weeks are we changing level? How can we have outdoor dining and shops and still be called level 5? Have the levels been mentioned at ally I haven’t heard this mentioned and everything I’ve read suggests we are still officially level 5 (passport for baby won’t be processed until out of level 5, otherwise I wouldn’t care).

Sam Wheat90

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is after 13 months of constant coverage and fear-mongering (don't forget the NPHET worry-o-meter after all) over this virus, despite the actual evidence that shows over 99% of people in this country are at little to no risk from it.

It's variant.. so what? That was inevitable. No need for the media/"experts" to start off yet another round of concern, worry and scare-tactics in an attempt to keep the public "in-line" and themselves in the headlines (and well compensated for the interviews and clicks).

Way off the mark there. Conspiracy theory rubbish.

RGS

RGS wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/dr-tony-holohan-returns-to-work-as-chief-medical-officer-1.4542281


To answer your question hes back at work.

Well he was still getting the blame for every decision over the past two months, so he may as well return so the irrational hatred is actually being directed at someone currently involved in decision making, and not at someone on leave mourning his wife.

Sobit1964

Beanybabog wrote: »

Does anyone know if the easing of restrictions goes ahead in the next few weeks are we changing level? How can we have outdoor dining and shops and still be called level 5? Have the levels been mentioned at ally I haven’t heard this mentioned and everything I’ve read suggests we are still officially level 5 (passport for baby won’t be processed until out of level 5, otherwise I wouldn’t care).

Passports are getting processed at the normal speed in the rest of the EU/UK - Ireland seems unique in this silly measure - what exactly are passport staff doing for their money during this?

timmyntc

Sam Wheat90 wrote: »

Way off the mark there. Conspiracy theory rubbish.

You made a new account just to make that post? :pac:

Sam Wheat90

timmyntc wrote: »

You made a new account just to make that post? :pac:

So what?

FlubberJones

Deleted User wrote: »

Well he was still getting the blame for every decision over the past two months, so he may as well return so the irrational hatred is actually being directed at someone currently involved in decision making, and not at someone on leave mourning his wife.

Well its a cruel world we live in.... And this ongoing disaster has eroded people's sympathy for many things. Someone else's wife passing away has absolutely zero effect on me, and I still dislike him.

Graces7

ingo1984 wrote: »

No its not. There is zero evidence to suggest it is more dangerous or more transmissible. What is driving the India case numbers is people started ignoring distancing, masks etc and this was driven at governemnt level who were praising they were out of the woods and encouraged people to attend local elections, religious festivals etc. There were 130,000 crammed in for a cricket match for flip sake. Thousands attending religious ceremonies. Sure no wonder cases are on the rise.

My medically qualified extended family over there are to be believed in this; while some of what you say is true in the lack of wisdom, so is the fact of this being a more dangerous and more transmissible variant of the virus.


One aspect does not exclude the other!

google and find abundant medical evidence . None so blind of course!

Stheno

Graces7 wrote: »

My medically qualified extended family over there are to be believed in this; while some of what you say is true in the lack of wisdom, so is the fact of this being a more dangerous and more transmissible variant of the virus.


One aspect does not exclude the other!

google and find abundant medical evidence . None so blind of course!

so apart from hearsay, can you provide evidence to back up your claims?

Stormyteacup

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well he was still getting the blame for every decision over the past two months, so he may as well return so the irrational hatred is actually being directed at someone currently involved in decision making, and not at someone on leave mourning his wife.

Well even if I disagree with NPHETs decisions of extreme caution, they were easier to digest coming from Nolan. I don’t consider my dislike of Holohan irrational.

Sam Wheat90

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Well even if I disagree with NPHETs decisions of extreme caution, they were easier to digest coming from Nolan. I don’t consider my dislike of Holohan irrational.

You should.