Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is it safe to buy a book in Sweden, but extremely dangerous to buy one in Ireland? Why is it safe to drink a cup of tea in a café in Sweden, but extremely dangerous to drink a cup of tea in a café in Ireland?

Because regardless of "safe" Sweden either apparently doesn't give a fuq compared to its neighbours or its a case of too little too late with rapidly rising case numbers.

The only thing that seems to be keeping any form of status quo there are vaccinations atm.

Sweden's Covid infections among highest in Europe

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0413/1209569-coronavirus-world/

ICU Numbers up once again

https://www.thelocal.se/20210413/more-covid-19-patients-in-intensive-care-than-during-swedens-second-wave/

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Because regardless of "safe" Sweden either apparently doesn't give a fuq or its a case of too little too late with rapidly rising case numbers.

The only thing that seems to be keeping any form of status quo there are vaccinations atm.



https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0413/1209569-coronavirus-world/

ICU Numbers up once again

https://www.thelocal.se/20210413/more-covid-19-patients-in-intensive-care-than-during-swedens-second-wave/

But you didn't answer the question. Here's another one I have been trying to get an answer to: why is it mandatory to wear a mask when alone in the countryside in Spain, but not mandatory to wear a mask when walking alone in the countryside in Sweden? Is it because the countryside in Spain is different to the countryside in Sweden?

The question isn't 'How is Sweden doing?' or 'What are the case numbers in Sweden?'

the kelt

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

This is wrong. We chose to let Covid back in at a time when were close to zero in real, actual numbers.

We chose to have a massive surge by opening up for December.

The reason we have and will have problems as regards other medical conditions is because of Covid.

If you don't have Covid, you don't have those problems.

The quicker you can get rid of Covid as a problem, the sooner you can deal with those other problems.

The more Covid we have, the more our ability to even start to deal with them is delayed and decreased.

Sam McConkey has cost no lives. But Sunetra Gupta, Martin Kulldorf, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump certainly have.

So a zero COVID advocate? We can be zero.

Aph2016

Theres no nice way to put it but 4800 people dead out of 4.9m and while sad, a huge amount of those people were extremely aged or had severe underlying conditions, including very late stage cancers, dementia etc. When you take a step back and try to add a little perspective, it's very clear that the measures over the last 13 months have been wildly disproportionate, and many of the measures/rules have been completely unnecessary.

Faugheen

normanoffside wrote: »

Thankfully most people aren't like this.

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1381816767933079555

Is that you judging someone?

Are you... are you curtain twitching?

paddyisreal

Bit cynical wrote: »

More London scenes. What we can expect this time next year.

Are you serious? Next year more like next century with Michael and the variants running the show.

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

A pretty speech. Which unfortunately doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Please explain with regard to viral seasonality (as opposed to human behaviour such as staying indoors during winter months which makes the spread of the virus more likely) the rising rate of infections in countries like Germany?

And yes I know Germany has restrictions. Restrictions appeared to have been working until regional authorities decided to start reducing them without regard to the country as a whole.

All because we now know that science and the experience of other countries and indeed ourselves do show that a small number of new variants are a threat

We know that outdoor spread is an issue not because of any specific outdoor activity rather what happens around such activities. We also know those who are presymptomatic / asymptomatic can help keep case numbers high. Hence recent walk in testing.

Yes we have the data and yes it is being used. Whether some decide to ignore that or otherwise is a different story.

We know outdoor activity doesn't spread the disease, full stop. Throwing a few ancedotes in amd the word of Colm Henry doesn't change that fact.

Outdoor activities are safe. Follow the science.

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

And as we well know - managing this pandemic is not just about the deaths. Its about keeping the rate of infection down so healthcare services can continue to cope to treat those who do get sick and require specialist medical intervention for covid and its associated illnesses.

But yes also deaths - which in many countries have been kept to a minimum because of restrictions. Other countries have not been so fortunate.

But but 'sacrifices' Whose? Yours? or everyone's who have helped keep down the rate of infection and continue to do so whilst vaccinations are rolled out.

Yeah none of it has been worth it says a few ...

They have completely failed to protect the health care system. Waiting lists are off the charts amd that's just the start of it. Everything non COVID has been ignored.

Hellrazer

Aph2016 wrote: »

Theres no nice way to put it but 4800 people dead out of 4.9m and while sad, a huge amount of those people were extremely aged or had severe underlying conditions, including very late stage cancers, dementia etc. When you take a step back and try to add a little perspective, it's very clear that the measures over the last 13 months have been wildly disproportionate, and many of the measures/rules have been completely unnecessary.

You left out the heart attacks ,strokes etc that were put down as covid deaths all in order to scare the population.

Covid didn't kill some of these people - the cancers etc did but because they tested positive after death they were covid deaths.

Probably asymptomatic when alive but they died "with" covid not because of covid.

Im sure a tribunal in the future will deal with that one.

AlekSmart

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

You're the person that brought in the Nazi comparison.

Well done.

If people are pro-virus,and from what is said on this forum it would quite a few people are, they should at least own it!

Can you develop this conclusion ?

JRant

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hard to know. Hospitals are always at breaking point in winter, emergency funding is provided, and things move on.

The flaw there is mismanagement of what is a huge budget and failure to provide the resources where they're most needed.

The fact we run our health care system on a Monday to Friday 9-5 schedule is a huge problem.

walus

Silentcorner wrote: »

Sam McConkey...the man who predicted 120,000 deaths from Covid a year ago...the problem with predictions is that we get to see how accurate/inaccurate they turn out to be....what makes a person qualified to have an opinion is someone who knows the difference between 4,500 (dies with and from covid) and 120,000.

He has been given a platform on all media outlets to predict the most outlandish worst case outcomes with impunity.

Tell me, because I have asked this question before and no one ever answers it, what public health expert[/], that is allowed time on national airwaves, has been even close to accurate in their predictions since this thing began over a year ago?

The thing is though that these so called ‘experts’ are only useful when dealing with problems that they have encounter many, many times before. That is were the expertise rather than a mere experience comes from. Unfortunately in Ireland, and in many other countries, there are no experts for dealing with pandemic. Therefore the first mistake the government made was to assume that those ‘experts’ know what to do. Second mistake was not putting a right decision making and governance structure in place to ensure that decisions are based on hard science and logic, and free from bias.

Instead we have a bunch of elderly gentlemen who have no clue how to deal with a new problem for which they have only a partial understanding of a very narrow spectrum that it spans across. That is nphet. Dysfunctional and useless. Lockdown is all they know.

MrMischief

Hellrazer wrote: »

You left out the heart attacks ,strokes etc that were put down as covid deaths all in order to scare the population.

Covid didn't kill some of these people - the cancers etc did but because they tested positive after death they were covid deaths.

Probably asymptomatic when alive but they died "with" covid not because of covid.

Im sure a tribunal in the future will deal with that one.

A death can be registered as Covid even if the deceased was just showing symptoms prior to their death - no positive test required. A positive test 28 days prior to death also qualifies as a Covid death.

Also, from the outset Ireland has “reported all deaths in laboratory confirmed cases of Covid-19, in both hospital and community settings, unlike many other countries which have reported deaths in hospitalised cases only”

sporina

went to the beach or a long fresh walk today - twas grrrrrrrreat...

Silentcorner

MrMischief wrote: »

A death can be registered as Covid even if the deceased was just showing symptoms prior to their death - no positive test required. A positive test 28 days prior to death also qualifies as a Covid death.

Also, from the outset Ireland has “reported all deaths in laboratory confirmed cases of Covid-19, in both hospital and community settings, unlike many other countries which have reported deaths in hospitalised cases only”

Nothing would surprise me this year....

Has anyone seen the figures for bed occupancy rate in our health system for 2020....I believe it was somewhere like 15% lower than previous years but can't provide proof of that, I'd love to see that figure.

AlekSmart

aidoh wrote: »

The scientific illiteracy in this country, despite our excellent educational system, is absolutely ballistic.

Dont know how many times I've heard people say that you can and will probably catch covid more than once, that just because you've had it doesn't make you immune, that just because you've had it you still need the vaccine, that just because you've had the vaccine you still have to wear masks, atomise yourself and continue to exist in a joyless dystopian nightmare indefinitely.

Then I look out our scientists in charge (HSE lifers with GP medical backgrounds but probably no actual research experience) tout this same imbecilic sh!t to the media and it all makes sense.

I am baffled as to how we ever achieved independence a century ago.

I don't see a way back to normality.

You make an interesting point regarding "Our excellent education system" and yet producing what are effectively dunces at the end of it.

It appears to begin at Second Level and continue it's upward spiral.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-grade-inflation-needs-to-be-addressed-as-a-priority-1.4504741

https://www.thejournal.ie/grade-inflation-irish-third-level-4757371-Aug2019/

Purely as an observation,it can be worth talking with those who actually work in supporting roles in Irish Academe,as in Cleaners,Groundskeepers,and those who merely interact with,rather than attempt to teach the youthful studious of Ireland.

It can be interesting.

PTH2009

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53166816

Scotland have a level 0

while our plan is 'we'll see'

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53166816

Scotland have a level 0

while our plan is 'we'll see'

Yes, but the level 0 includes masks. Nothing about them going.

AlekSmart

Faugheen wrote: »

And the Church was allowed to carry out various injustices around abuse of women and children. We’re being asked to keep our contacts down in an attempt to control a global pandemic.

I think it’s appropriate to call it out for what it was. Same as when people compare this to the Nazi’s reign of terror.

It's worth remembering that "The Nazi's" reign of terror did'nt materialize overnight.
It had to begin somewhere and gradually develop,become acceptable and then spread.

There is always a developmental period.

PTH2009

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but the level 0 includes masks. Nothing about them going.

Id accept that

Sure im only wearing it when i go inside, during work and in terms of hospitality just when im moving around/going to the bathroom etc

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Id accept that

Sure im only wearing it when i go inside, during work and in terms of hospitality just when im moving around/going to the bathroom etc

Yes, but if people accept it then they'll never go away.

Sobit1964

PTH2009 wrote: »

Id accept that

Sure im only wearing it when i go inside, during work and in terms of hospitality just when im moving around/going to the bathroom etc

I'm sure a reasonable % of people will prefer to wear masks long after this is in the tribunal stage. So long as its not a 'legal' requirement for everyone to join them, i'm happy to avoid them in much the same way i might dodge a jehovahs witness.

Sobit1964

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I'm sure a reasonable % of people will prefer to wear masks long after this is in the tribunal stage. So long as its not a 'legal' requirement for everyone to join them, i'm happy to avoid them in much the same way i might dodge a jehovahs witness.

I agree. As long as it's voluntary. They're the worst restriction for me.

ypres5

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I'm sure a reasonable % of people will prefer to wear masks long after this is in the tribunal stage. So long as its not a 'legal' requirement for everyone to join them, i'm happy to avoid them in much the same way i might dodge a jehovahs witness.

Exactly if people want to wear them while eating, sleeping, at the pub or a nightclub whatever knock yourselves out but don't foist it on me and others who despite the damn things

PTH2009

Will Hotels put up the fight to have their pubs fully open for the summer when/if staycations are permitted ?

Kivaro

I'm curious if many of you were aware of the change from being in your car for essential reasons to now having a "reasonable excuse" for traveling. I was wondering earlier why Gardai at checkpoints were still asking people where they were going, and according to citizensinformation there's a whole long list of "reasonable excuses" here.

The posters over in the Gardai thread are not happy, and I wouldn't blame them. It's a bit too much after the many, many months of restrictions.

bb1234567

Aph2016 wrote: »

Theres no nice way to put it but 4800 people dead out of 4.9m and while sad, a huge amount of those people were extremely aged or had severe underlying conditions, including very late stage cancers, dementia etc. When you take a step back and try to add a little perspective, it's very clear that the measures over the last 13 months have been wildly disproportionate, and many of the measures/rules have been completely unnecessary.

Yeh, 4800 is quite a large number and if it was 4800 deaths striking down people from all age groups and demographics in our population as our restrictions would have you think then maybe it would seem proportionate. But 40% or 2000 of the deaths are at least 85 years of age. How much longer could this group have to live , realistically. Life expectancy for people who make it to 65 in Ireland is 86 for women and 84 for men. So, even if we said everyone in that group of 85+ deaths was exactly 85 on the nose (and ignore the fact that is a broad age group band and many were infact also late 80's and 90's), and then consider many or most had underlying conditions in addition to that, it's really hard to argue against the fact that around half of the irish death toll would have passed this year or the next regardless of the pandemic.

Snooker Loopy

Silentcorner wrote: »

There are plenty of people like me on this thread, complete amateurs, but we have proven ourselves to be more correct than any of the head bangers on national media predicting mass graves and freezer trucks full of bodies and deadly variants and 4th waves....

Here's what you wrote in October:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114952406&postcount=2223

We experienced a pandemic in March/April, just look at the rapid spike in ICU beds, and the rise in death rates (for people WITH covid)...it dropped off in May and we haven't witnessed any spikes at all since then, not in deaths or ICU occupancy, what we are witnessing now is an uptick in positive tests for two reasons, the amount of people we are testing and it is the time of year when these kinds of viruses spread.

We will not see a return to the fairly dramatic spikes we saw in March/April.

That's about as wrong as it's possible to be.

One thing I've learned during this pandemic is that no matter how wrong the "play it down" crew get things, they will always, always claim they "got it right".

Always.

Because their agenda is not about the truth, it's about gaslighting and trolling with a view to ramming through an agenda which pisses all over public health.

And most of all, it's about making the thread about them, for narcissistic purposes.

Complete amateur, indeed.

Neddyusa

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No-one is denying Covid exists, or that it is dangerous and unfortunately deadly to some people, or that people shouldn't take care of themselves and their loved ones.

However the level of risk is a fraction of what was feared in March last year when we had very little data and reports and images of deaths from China and Italy. Since then we have had a year of experience with the virus and identified who is at most risk, and who isn't.

As I said, the numbers show the reality. For 98%+ of the 4.9 million people in this country, Covid is not a significant risk. That doesn't take away from the need for those who ARE at risk to protect themselves at all.

However, we are not just talking about a situation where Covid exists in isolation. There are other medical risks to consider, mental health, macro-economic and individual financial issues, employment and industry, the rising debt levels, and all the other things that the State has put on hold for the last year with increasingly worrying results.

We cannot continue to put all these other matters and issues off to protect what is a very small number of people. That's not how a country works.

Excellent post!

By the way, does anyone have the stats for the risk of death for under 70s from Covid vs death in a car crash?
I'm imagine the latter is riskier for those without other health conditions.

Sobit1964

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Here's what you wrote in October:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114952406&postcount=2223



That's about as wrong as it's possible to be.

One thing I've learned during this pandemic is that no matter how wrong the "play it down" crew get things, they will always, always claim they "got it right".

Always.

Because their agenda is not about the truth, it's about gaslighting and trolling with a view to ramming through an agenda which pisses all over public health.

And most of all, it's about making the thread about them, for narcissistic purposes.

Complete amateur, indeed.

Considerably less bad than the 'professionals' who forcast 6 figure deaths. I'm sure this poster isnt paid for his commentary on a public internet forum, whereas the eejits on RTE are, via our money.