Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Faugheen

paddyisreal wrote: »

no doubt the government have to shoulder a lot of the blame but it was nphet who gave them the advise to stop golf, outdoor sports etc so they are not except from blame either.

And the government didn’t have to take that advice.

However, they did because when it comes to imposing restrictions, it’s NPHET’s fault. And when it comes to reopening, wait and see it will be the government clapping themselves on the back for a job well done.

Listening to Ronan Glynn in the Health Committee now and he sounds like he is very frustrated by how he’s being painted in the media. Constantly saying ‘I can see the headline now...’ referring to how he is often quoted out of context. He has said it a good few times in the last few weeks.

Snooker Loopy

VonLuck wrote: »

No evidence pandemic has led to significant increase in suicides: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-no-evidence-pandemic-has-led-to-significant-increase-in-suicides-1.4536099

Suicides decreased in the US in 2020 and the global picture shows a similar story.

Unfortunately this is highly unlikely to stop people with a particular agenda, which doesn't depend on facts, claiming otherwise.

https://www.vox.com/2021/4/6/22368210/suicides-covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-2020

But new data suggests that the number of suicides actually decreased in the US last year. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, suicides totaled fewer than 45,000 in 2020, down from about 47,500 in 2019 and more than 48,000 in 2018.

So far, this seems to be true globally. England saw no increase in suicides in the aftermath of lockdowns, Louis Appleby, a researcher on suicide and self-harm at the University of Manchester, wrote for the medical journal BMJ. The same seems to be true in other nations, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, and Sweden, based on data for the first few months of lockdowns around the globe.

“Our conclusions at this stage, however, should be cautious. These are early findings and may change,” Appleby wrote in BMJ. “Beneath the overall numbers there may be variations between demographic groups or geographical areas. After all, the impact of covid-19 itself has not been uniform across communities.”

Still, the news overall seems good.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country who still thinks that a man standing in a field holding a nine iron is a threat to our collective safety?

It could become a lightning rod for unfounded paranoia. One must also be mindful that Covid has an awful thirst, attacking idle pints when an unsuspecting punter makes for the jacks. And it moonlights as a food critic, munching on a bag of crisps makes you an immediate target. Those spared are the gourmands who dip in their pockets for nine quid and pick at a plate of onion rings.

Expect more arbitrary bullsh1t rules and regulations in the works to stifle any craic, people unwinding of a sunny day is dangerous for low morale. Give one a taste of freedom, they might get awful greedy and actually start enjoying themselves. And we can't be having that, collective inertia is needed for a benign dictatorship to thrive.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country who still thinks that a man standing in a field holding a nine iron is a threat to our collective safety?

Tenzor07

Faugheen wrote: »

Listening to Ronan Glynn in the Health Committee now and he sounds like he is very frustrated by how he’s being painted in the media. Constantly saying ‘I can see the headline now...’ referring to how he is often quoted out of context. He has said it a good few times in the last few weeks.

He shouldn't be so prominent in the media anyways, as the head of a medical advisory panel any updates he has should be through the Minister for Health, the current one seems to be highly concerned about his media profile so anything useful he has to share then I'm sure he'd only be too delighted to post up on his Twitter...

Snooker Loopy

aidoh wrote: »

The scientific illiteracy in this country, despite our excellent educational system, is absolutely ballistic.

Dont know how many times I've heard people say that you can and will probably catch covid more than once, that just because you've had it doesn't make you immune, that just because you've had it you still need the vaccine, that just because you've had the vaccine you still have to wear masks, atomise yourself and continue to exist in a joyless dystopian nightmare indefinitely.

Then I look out our scientists in charge (HSE lifers with GP medical backgrounds but probably no actual research experience) tout this same imbecilic sh!t to the media and it all makes sense.

I am baffled as to how we ever achieved independence a century ago.

I don't see a way back to normality.

Who exactly in the public eye is "scientifically illiterate"?

Could you provide some names?

And reasons why they are "scientifically illiterate"?

And reasons why you are qualified to deem them so?

gozunda

niallo27 wrote: »

So can we discuss why we have some of the harshest restrictions in the world. Why our virus is regarded as so much more dangerous, its a global pandemic but we are not treating it the same way they are globally but ya something about conspiracy.

What the fuq has any that got to do with bizarre notion of shooting people in the streets? Is that what you mean by "harsh"? As people being shot as compared to people being asked to have a bit of cop on and observe those restrictions which are in place?

But do we really have some of the "harshest" restrictions in the world?

If we go by the league tables - then that picture varies over time and depending what is being measured

Looking at Travel restrictions by country - Ireland comes out as being more or less in line with much of therest of the world.

https://www.kayak.ie/travel-restrictions

Looking at lockdowns in use around the world

Again the data varies over time and shows many countries across the world using lockdowns as a means to reduce the rate of infection

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

Or perhaps one of the most referred to stringency indexes from Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government.

https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/covid-19-government-response-tracker

In this table - Ireland comes number 9 on the list at present. A position which was gained largely on foot of having one of the highest rates of infection in January and a consequenct number of new cases which stubbornly stayed high until recently.

Here is Ireland and the UK compared as to "stringency" of restrictions to date.




Feck all difference until the last few weeks tbh


And if you look at the map of restrictions from the Oxford site - you will see many countries bringing in even more restrictions not less over time.

Such as Germany which despite also having an effective lockdown since early December (albeit one which was apparently indifferently applied by region) is now considering applying even more state wide restrictions because of a rapidly rising rate of infections.

And yes we have had a comprehensive array of restrictions to help keep down the rate of infection here, to allow our health services to continue to cope treating the cases we do have and all while we roll out one of the biggest vaccinations programmes in the history of the state

Why do restrictions vary globally you ask - because not every country is the same or has the same issues, or has the same level of healthcare resources or even the same amounts of vaccines.

Tbh its like a child screaming that they want a different ice lolly just because the other kid has one and doing a tantrum becsuse they don't get what they think they want.

Snooker Loopy

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Suicides decreased in the US in 2020 and the global picture shows a similar story.

Unfortunately this is highly unlikely to stop people with a particular agenda, which doesn't depend on facts, claiming otherwise.

https://www.vox.com/2021/4/6/22368210/suicides-covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-2020

A quarter of young adults in the US contemplated suicide in July / August of last year.: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/13/cdc-mental-health-pandemic-394832

Graham

growleaves wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country who still thinks that a man standing in a field holding a nine iron is a threat to our collective safety?

Is there anyone left in the country pretending it was about golf and not about reducing movement?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

What the fuq has any that got to do with bizarre notion of shooting people in the streets? Is that what you mean by "harsh"? As people being shot as compared to people being asked to have a bit of cop on and observe those restrictions which are in place?

But do we really have some of the "harshest" restrictions in the world?

If we go by the league tables - then that picture varies over time and depending what is being measured

Looking at Travel restrictions by country - Ireland comes out as being more or less in line with much of therest of the world.

https://www.kayak.ie/travel-restrictions

Looking at lockdowns in use around the world

Again the data varies over time and shows many countries across the world using lockdowns as a means to reduce the rate of infection

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

Or perhaps one of the most referred to stringency indexes from Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government.

https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/covid-19-government-response-tracker

In this table - Ireland comes number 9 on the list at present. A position which was gained largely on foot of having one of the highest rates of infection in January and a consequenct number of new cases which stubbornly stayed high until recently.

And if you look at the map of restrictions from the Oxford site - you will see many countries bringing in even more restrictions not less over time.

Such as Germany which despite also having an effective lockdown since early December (albeit one which was apparently indifferently applied by region) is now considering applying even more state wide restrictions because of a rapidly rising rate of infections.

And yes we have had a comprehensive array of restrictions to help keep down the rate of infection here, to allow our health services to continue to cope treating the cases we do have and all while we roll out one of the biggest vaccinations programmes in the history of the state

Why do restrictions vary globally you ask - because not every country is the same or has the same issues, or has the same level of healthcare resources or even the same amounts of vaccines.

Tbh its like a child screaming that they want a different ice lolly just because the other kid has one and doing a tantrum becsuse they don't get what they think they want.

Ireland has been locked down for over a year. They just call it 'level 5' instead of lockdown.

Marty Bird

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

See the second last line in my post. but I'll say it again...

- 13 months on <5000 deaths, the majority in the very elderly/underlying issues category and compounded by the screw-up in the nursing homes early on

- Cancer, dementia and other deaths accounted for more than that number over a 3 month period last summer. The loss or delay of essential other medical services during the last year is a significantly greater risk to public and personal health

- 4.9 million people in the country, 98%+ of which are at little to no significant risk from Covid as evidenced by 12 months of data

- Aside from the first 2 months, our response and the measures that have been imposed on the entire population has been completely disproportionate to the actual levels of risk involved

- Case numbers mean nothing. The OUTCOME of those cases is the important metric and those outcomes have, and continue to be, overwhelmingly positive

- Covid is, as we saw last year, a seasonal virus yet despite this we are more restricted now than we were last year given that we have vaccines and actual data to work with


TL;DR - the medical risk from Covid is minimal in the overwhelming majority of cases as evidenced by both the data and simple observation of events over the last year, yet our leaders and NPHET continue to behave as though there's a deadly mass killer in the air which simply is not true.

Imagine having to point that out to some.

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

What the fuq has any that got to do with bizarre notion of shooting people in the streets? Is that what you mean by "harsh"? As people being shot as compared to people being asked to have a bit of cop on and observe those restrictions which are in place?

But do we really have some of the "harshest" restrictions in the world?

If we go by the league tables - then that picture varies over time and depending what is being measured

Looking at Travel restrictions by country - Ireland comes out as being more or less in line with much of therest of the world.

https://www.kayak.ie/travel-restrictions

Looking at lockdowns in use around the world

Again the data varies over time and shows many countries across the world using lockdowns as a means to reduce the rate of infection

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

Or perhaps one of the most referred to stringency indexes from Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government.

https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/covid-19-government-response-tracker

In this table - Ireland comes number 9 on the list at present. A position which was gained largely on foot of having one of the highest rates of infection in January and a consequenct number of new cases which stubbornly stayed high until recently.

And if you look at the map of restrictions from the Oxford site - you will see many countries bringing in even more restrictions not less over time.

Such as Germany which despite also having an effective lockdown since early December (albeit one which was apparently indifferently applied by region) is now considering applying even more restrictions because of a rapidly rising rate of infections.

And yes we have had a comprehensive array of restrictions to help keep down the rate of infection here, to allow our health services to continue to cope treating the cases we do have and all while we roll out one of the biggest vaccinations programmes in the history of the state

Why do restrictions vary globally you ask - because not every country is the same or has the same issues, or has the same level of healthcare resources or even the same amounts of vaccines.

Tbh its like a child screaming that they want a different ice lolly just because the other kid has one and doing a tantrum becsuse they don't get what they think they want.

Do you actually believe what you are typing, your first reference, I live here, I don't give a **** if you can fly in or out. The whole post stinks of, we are locked down in case we need to lock down again. Posters like you will never be normal again.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

It could become a lightning rod for unfounded paranoia.

Apparently

Deleted User wrote: »

One must also be mindful that Covid has an awful thirst, attacking idle pints

Tenzor07

Graham wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country pretending it was about golf and not about reducing movement?

What's the risk for people who drive alone in their own car to a nearby Golf course and go out for a round of Golf?

I mean it's not a team sport, it's played out in the open... once you finish your game then back into your own car and off home.. clubhouse isn't open so no hanging around...

Silentcorner

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Who exactly in the public eye is "scientifically illiterate"?

Could you provide some names?

And reasons why they are "scientifically illiterate"?

And reasons why you are qualified to deem them so?

Sam McConkey...the man who predicted 120,000 deaths from Covid a year ago...the problem with predictions is that we get to see how accurate/inaccurate they turn out to be....what makes a person qualified to have an opinion is someone who knows the difference between 4,500 (dies with and from covid) and 120,000.

He has been given a platform on all media outlets to predict the most outlandish worst case outcomes with impunity.

Tell me, because I have asked this question before and no one ever answers it, what public health expert, that is allowed time on national airwaves, has been even close to accurate in their predictions since this thing began over a year ago?

JRant

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That proved to be a big nothing burger.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland has been locked down for over a year. They just call it 'level 5' instead of lockdown.

Problem with that notion is that Ireland has not been in level 5 for a year no matter which way you spin it.

suicide_circus

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/b91a4466-f459-4138-bcbd-b4622702d2e4

11521323

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What's the risk for people who drive alone in their own car to a nearby Golf course and go out for a round of Golf?

I mean it's not a team sport, it's played out in the open... once you finish your game then back into your own car and off home.. clubhouse isn't open so no hanging around...

There is no risk.

The drones will tell you it's about restricting movement which is the weakest piece of reasoning I've ever heard. It's as if people aren't moving freely wherever they want anyway (in reality they are) so it adds no additional risk.

Why are off-licences open? Why are half of the "essential" but not really essential retailers open if it's purely about restricting movement then? The logic doesn't hold up when you try to reconcile it with the totality of the restrictions.

Keeping golf closed was a ridiculous decision and one that went against most of the world yet it still gets rationalized by people who quite frankly cannot critically analyse anything at all.

Silentcorner

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What's the risk for people who drive alone in their own car to a nearby Golf course and go out for a round of Golf?

I mean it's not a team sport, it's played out in the open... once you finish your game then back into your own car and off home.. clubhouse isn't open so no hanging around...

I wouldn't engage, these people think a person walking on a beach for some fresh air is deadly if that beach is more than 5km from where they live.

JRant

Graham wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country pretending it was about golf and not about reducing movement?

Movement doesn't spread the virus, contact does. I mean we are 14 months in to this and basic stuff still gets missed.

PTH2009

Another Vaccine gone with the one shot J&J suspended

Graham

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What's the risk for people who drive alone in their own car to a nearby Golf course and go out for a round of Golf?

JRant wrote: »

Movement doesn't spread the virus, contact does.

because this thread is testament to the ability of some people to follow basic rules?

I'll say it again. It wasn't about the dangers of golf, it was about reducing the number of people moving around. It's really not complicated.

Why anyone thinks a special allowance should have been made for golfers is beyond me. Comes across as a bit entitled to be honest.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Apparently

Fore!

Phew. It just sailed over your head.

Stormyteacup

gozunda wrote: »

How the heck is that news? Dr Ryan of the WHO (the only one with his head screwed on over there imo) detailed last December exactly that ie that Covid mutations would decline over time.

First I've came across no reference to your claim that the UK variant "being 70% more lethal than its predecessor"

What we DO know is that the variant is up to 70% more transmissible than the original.

Secondly - did you bother reading what the article did say - or was it that simply you decided to use it to try and paint something which it is not?

Allow me to point out what the article does say. This from the conclusion of that article.

It’s news because it’s recently published content of evolving research. The number of Covid mutations declining over time is slightly different to the limit on the virus to mutate to a deadlier or more transmissible variant.

Lots of references about speculation of lethality of British variant,

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN2B213E

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/02/13/virus-variant-first-detected-uk-has-been-deadlier-study-confirms/%3foutputType=amp

Plenty more to be found.

And yes, I did read the article in it’s entirely. I’m not sure what you think I’m trying to paint it into? The information on convergence of variants was enlightening.

The caveat in the conclusion of the article is saying the best way to prevent any mutation is to halt transmission, and drawing attention to historic pandemics to understand complacency is to be avoided.

None of which I dispute. Stop infections and a virus doesn’t spread. What I have an issue with is trying to prevent transmission at any cost and using the risk of any possible dangerous mutation of this or any existing virus, or indeed any new virus, which is a risk that will always exist, to heighten current fear.

gozunda

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you actually believe what you are typing, your first reference, I live here, I don't give a **** if you can fly in or out. The whole post stinks of, we are locked down in case we need to lock down again. Posters like you will never be normal again.

Well considering I'm quoting fact and not magical beliefs or fantasy - yes I do believe what I'm typing.

But no - you are incorrect. Nowhere does it state or is implied the bizarre notion of "we are locked down in case we need to lock down again"

Simply put we are observing restrictions to keep our rate of infection down, so healthcare services can continue to cope treating those who are infected and to allow us to roll out one of the biggest vaccinations programmes in the states history.

Maybe stick with playing the ball rather than making cheap sideswipe at others.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

because this thread is testament to the ability of some people to follow basic rules?

I'll say it again. It wasn't about the dangers of golf, it was about reducing the number of people moving around. It's really not complicated.

Why anyone thinks a special allowance should have been made for golfers is beyond me.

No, it is not complicated, it is moronic.

There has been a fairly steady and visible increase in movement of people since the beginning of Feb, including all the schools re opening, despite the constant hysterical warnings from our media outlets, guess what happened...the numbers went down, the hospital numbers went down, the death numbers went down...we had our winter surge, the curve flattened itself like the curve always does.

At least half of our restrictions are, expensive, socially damaging and a complete waste of time.

Ignoring the winter surge and the seasonality factor of this viral infection has been a disaster for this country, it is causing an even greater health crisis that too many people are ignoring.

All because the public have been conditioned to believe that variants are the new threat...

We know that outdoor spread is so miniscule it is irrelevant, we know healthy people don't spread the virus.

The next surge won't be until next winter in this country...we have the data...we are ignoring it.

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

No, it is not complicated, it is moronic.

There has been a fairly steady and visible increase in movement of people since the beginning of Feb

There has.

It's no surprise the restrictions dragged on as long as they did.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I wouldn't engage, these people think a person walking on a beach for some fresh air is deadly if that beach is more than 5km from where they live.

they them these those, its great to to have so many pronouns to enable easy identification of the "other"

Tenzor07

Graham wrote: »

because this thread is testament to the ability of some people to follow basic rules?
I'll say it again. It wasn't about the dangers of golf, it was about reducing the number of people moving around. It's really not complicated.
Why anyone thinks a special allowance should have been made for golfers is beyond me. Comes across as a bit entitled to be honest.

The rules say you can go to a local Supermarket and rub shoulders with 100 other shoppers and the staff who have 1000's of interactions with the public each week, but can't go in your own car to a local Golf course and walk around a field in the open air on your own to keep yourself active and engaged then there's something wrong with these rules which have little or no basis in science...