Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

JRant

Nolan waffling on about his "modelling" now. No benchmark numbers on when restrictions can be eased as his "model" shows it's progress.

Penfailed

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'll never get over how many westerners all but handed over their rights without question. Even if you're a true believer in lockdowns, you should still be questioning the suppression of our rights, even if it is for the greater good. Before the virus most of us thought our rights were ironclad, since then it's clear that that's not the case. Wider society really needs to wake up to the fact that our rights only have strength if we give them strength. Having your rights taken from you, and not even asking about validity of the decision, does nothing but weaken our rights. The sad thing is, this is only the start. I don't think people realize the precedent that they've set by being so weak willed in the face of a threat.

What did you do about it?

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

The Dutch, French, Germans, Spanish, etc have all had some form of political and societal questioning of the widespread suspension of civil rights.

The Irish have been the incredibly willing to trade away the most rights with barely a peek from anyone. All it took was a bit of fearmongering from the media and the borrowing of tens of billions to bribe everyone.

We have really shown ourselves up as an embarrassment.

Easy to see how the Catholic Church prospered here for so many decades.

I'm not embarrassed in any way whatsoever.

Faugheen

facehugger99 wrote: »

The Dutch, French, Germans, Spanish, etc have all had some form of political and societal questioning of the widespread suspension of civil rights.

The Irish have been the incredibly willing to trade away the most rights with barely a peek from anyone. All it took was a bit of fearmongering from the media and the borrowing of tens of billions to bribe everyone.

We have really shown ourselves up as an embarrassment.

Easy to see how the Catholic Church prospered here for so many decades.

There is something very, very disturbing about comparing this to the systemic abuse of the Catholic Church, more so towards women and children.

I’d be embarrassed to make such a comparison like that to be honest.

Penfailed

Faugheen wrote: »

There is something very, very disturbing about comparing this to the systemic abuse of the Catholic Church, more so towards women and children.

I’d be embarrassed to make such a comparison like that to be honest.

It's not the first time it's been mentioned in the thread. It'll probably not be the last.

Silentcorner

Faugheen wrote: »

There is something very, very disturbing about comparing this to the systemic abuse of the Catholic Church, more so towards women and children.

I’d be embarrassed to make such a comparison like that to be honest.

Ah will you go away with your emotive nonsense....

The poster was referring to how the Church was allowed, by the political and media establishment to dominate the population and not tolerate alternate opinions.

Let's face it, when it comes to herd mentality, we are in a league of our own.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm not embarrassed in any way whatsoever.

But your not taking about the same government!

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'll never get over how many westerners all but handed over their rights without question. Even if you're a true believer in lockdowns, you should still be questioning the suppression of our rights, even if it is for the greater good. Before the virus most of us thought our rights were ironclad, since then it's clear that that's not the case. Wider society really needs to wake up to the fact that our rights only have strength if we give them strength. Having your rights taken from you, and not even asking about validity of the decision, does nothing but weaken our rights. The sad thing is, this is only the start. I don't think people realize the precedent that they've set by being so weak willed in the face of a threat.

Yes, but the reason it's worse in Ireland is because of the moribund fourth estate. Also the political parties are identical, the radio stations are identical, and the newspapers are identical. So there's no opposition and people aren't exposed to alternative viewpoints as a result, and, if ever they are, many are intolerant of them.

I've read several articles by people who experienced communism who see signs that the West (particularly Western Europe) is looking like that which they experienced and lived through.

Faugheen

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ah will you go away with your emotive nonsense....

The poster was referring to how the Church was allowed, by the political and media establishment to dominate the population and not tolerate alternate opinions.

Let's face it, when it comes to herd mentality, we are in a league of our own.

And the Church was allowed to carry out various injustices around abuse of women and children. We’re being asked to keep our contacts down in an attempt to control a global pandemic.

I think it’s appropriate to call it out for what it was. Same as when people compare this to the Nazi’s reign of terror.

growleaves

Silentcorner wrote: »

The poster was referring to how the Church was allowed, by the political and media establishment to dominate the population and not tolerate alternate opinions.

Yes it was a super-matrix of conformity overlaid on society.

Then, as now, many people see the system as too powerful to talk back to. Others think appeals to authority settle any matter (rather than being a logical fallacy).

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

But your not taking about the same government!

Sorry...what?

Silentcorner

Faugheen wrote: »

And the Church was allowed to carry out various injustices around abuse of women and children. We’re being asked to keep our contacts down in an attempt to control a global pandemic.

I think it’s appropriate to call it out for what it was. Same as when people compare this to the Nazi’s reign of terror.

I'm not getting to an emotive argument about how the priests and nuns were allowed to dominate all our thoughts and actions, they were supported by a sheep like mentality in the population who were more than happy to let the authorities dictate societal norms.

That is the point the poster was making and well you know it....the amount of women, children, and indeed men (assuming I am allowed to include men) who are going to have health issues related to the lock downs are of no concern to you at all....

FintanMcluskey

I think if the army was shooting people on the street for not obeying orders the same posters would continue to justify the actions of those in charge in the name of a global pandemic.

Discussion and logic is irrelevant, the programming code is not going to be changed

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

Sorry...what?

You said your not embarrassed but you don’t live here if I remember correctly

Faugheen

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think if the army was shooting people on the street for not obeying orders the same posters would continue to justify the actions of those in charge in the name of a global pandemic.

Discussion and logic is irrelevant, the programming code is not going to be changed

More hysteria and gaslighting here. Well done.

growleaves

Faugheen wrote: »

I think it’s appropriate to call it out for what it was. Same as when people compare this to the Nazi’s reign of terror.

Well I hope in that case you don't support barring unvaccinated people from working or accessing basic services.

This situation can spiral into something very much worse than what it is now.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think if the army was shooting people on the street for not obeying orders the same posters would continue to justify the actions of those in charge in the name of a global pandemic.

Discussion and logic is irrelevant, the programming code is not going to be changed

You're thinking for other people now? Creating fantasy scenarios?

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You said your not embarrassed but you don’t live here if I remember correctly

Yeah, you've misremembered.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah, you've misremembered.

My apology

I incorrectly remember you saying you live in Northern Ireland

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think if the army was shooting people on the street for not obeying orders the same posters would continue to justify the actions of those in charge in the name of a global pandemic.

Discussion and logic is irrelevant, the programming code is not going to be changed

Well that's certainly the single most bizarre jump straight into absurdity (with regard to what is yes a global pandemic) todate on this thread.

That and references to programming and code straight from the lower vaults of the conspiracy theory forum.

But yes but all means have a good discussion with the virus. Let us know how that goes for you.

VonLuck

No evidence pandemic has led to significant increase in suicides: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-no-evidence-pandemic-has-led-to-significant-increase-in-suicides-1.4536099

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

Well that's certainly the single most bizarre jump straight into absurdity (with regard to what is yes a global pandemic) todate on this thread.

That and references to programming and code straight from the lower vaults of the conspiracy theory forum.

But yes but all means have a good discussion with the virus. Let us know how that goes for you.

So can we discuss why we have some of the harshest restrictions in the world. Why our virus is regarded as so much more dangerous, its a global pandemic but we are not treating it the same way they are globally but ya something about conspiracy.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

Why our virus is regarded as so much more dangerous.

That would be yet another one of those things that nobody said.

paddyisreal

Graham wrote: »

That would be yet another one of those things that nobody said.

If all fairness some of the ridiculous restrictions golf, outdoor sports, not being able to buy a pair of jocks etc applied by this government imply that the virus is more serious here than anywhere else.

gozunda

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Recent study suggests this virus may be running out of possible mutations.

From Vaughn Cooper evolutional biologist at Pittsburgh University, and cited by The Times in UK.

Also of interest is the convergence of mutations - it’s likely that the same mutations will arise in separate geographic locations independently while the virus is circulating.

Maybe we need not be fearing ‘variants’ from certain locations coming in on the plane much longer, and move swiftly on to the next scapegoat to distract from all the bumbling.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-coronavirus-variants-dont-seem-to-be-highly-variable-so-far/

Have a feeling this bit of science will be left of the shelf for a while as more time is needed for observation - unlike the science of UK variant being 70% more lethal than its predecessor, that science needed to be rolled out ASAP.

How the heck is that news? Dr Ryan of the WHO (the only one with his head screwed on over there imo) detailed last December exactly that ie that Covid mutations would decline over time.

First I've came across no reference to your claim that the UK variant "being 70% more lethal than its predecessor"

What we DO know is that the variant is up to 70% more transmissible than the original.

Secondly - did you bother reading what the article did say - or was it that simply you decided to use it to try and paint something which it is not?

Allow me to point out what the article does say. This from the conclusion of that article.

Because many newly discovered variants appear to be resampling the mutations found in other established variants, we can speculate that the virus is beginning to run out of new, major adaptations. But this doesn’t mean that that the forces of evolution will stop as we begin to approach herd immunity and loosen restrictions. History tells us that viruses can evolve rapidly to evade barriers to transmission, especially when infections remain numerous. We must remember that the more infections there are, the more chance mutations will occur, and those that best help the virus to survive will proliferate. This is why stopping new infections is key. These viral adaptations are already rewriting our biology textbooks on convergent evolution; let’s strive to limit new material.

growleaves

paddyisreal wrote: »

If all fairness some of the ridiculous restrictions golf, outdoor sports, not being able to buy a pair of jocks etc applied by this government imply that the virus is more serious here than anywhere else.

Is there anyone left in the country who still thinks that a man standing in a field holding a nine iron is a threat to our collective safety?

Faugheen

paddyisreal wrote: »

If all fairness some of the ridiculous restrictions golf, outdoor sports, not being able to buy a pair of jocks etc applied by this government imply that the virus is more serious here than anywhere else.

Well because the situation is here was a hell of a lot more serious than pretty much anywhere else.

When the government ignored advice around MHQ in May, a much more robust contact tracing system in August and warnings over the impact of hospitality/household visits in November, they caused all of this. Now, when the **** has hit the fan, they go into hiding and point fingers at the ‘public health advice’.

paddyisreal

growleaves wrote: »

Is there anyone left in the country who still thinks that a man standing in a field holding a nine iron is a threat to our collective safety?

theres a few posters on here who think so

Tenzor07

paddyisreal wrote: »

If all fairness some of the ridiculous restrictions golf, outdoor sports, not being able to buy a pair of jocks etc applied by this government imply that the virus is more serious here than anywhere else.

There doesn't appear to be anyone in Government fighting for Sports, the one non-medical things that can be done to improve the nations health seems to be forgotten about....

Outdoor sports should never have been banned, allow Golf but close the clubhouse, allow football training outdoors, allow cycling groups to train.... all done outdoors where the risks are minimal... keep gyms open with limited numbers.....

paddyisreal

Faugheen wrote: »

Well because the situation is here was a hell of a lot more serious than pretty much anywhere else.

When the government ignored advice around MHQ in May, a much more robust contact tracing system in August and warnings over the impact of hospitality/household visits in November, they caused all of this. Now, when the **** has hit the fan, they go into hiding and point fingers at the ‘public health advice’.

no doubt the government have to shoulder a lot of the blame but it was nphet who gave them the advise to stop golf, outdoor sports etc so they are not except from blame either.