Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Corholio

RGS wrote: »

The crazy decisions from NIAC just feeds into the anti vac arguments.

Karen Butler from NIAC on NT this morning using the favourite phrase of NPHET "we are taking an ultra cautious approach" and at the same time trying to argue that the vaccine is safe.

She then indicated if there was no other vaccine the decision would be different.

Then Leo stating he agreed with the decision but would recommend taking the vaccine and he would take it.


It a total joke.

It doesn't feed into it at all. If people can't separate the two very different situations and just labelling it as a 'pro' for anti-vaxxers then they should check themselves a good bit.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't have to, but can't take part in society if you don't, or rather half take part in society (masks, social distancing etc) if "allowed" to by the government. We were warned about this by Aldous Huxley: “People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.”

I'll never get over how many westerners all but handed over their rights without question. Even if you're a true believer in lockdowns, you should still be questioning the suppression of our rights, even if it is for the greater good. Before the virus most of us thought our rights were ironclad, since then it's clear that that's not the case. Wider society really needs to wake up to the fact that our rights only have strength if we give them strength. Having your rights taken from you, and not even asking about validity of the decision, does nothing but weaken our rights. The sad thing is, this is only the start. I don't think people realize the precedent that they've set by being so weak willed in the face of a threat.

arccosh

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Recent study suggests this virus may be running out of possible mutations.

From Vaughn Cooper evolutional biologist at Pittsburgh University, and cited by The Times in UK.

Also of interest is the convergence of mutations - it’s likely that the same mutations will arise in separate geographic locations independently while the virus is circulating.

Maybe we need not be fearing ‘variants’ from certain locations coming in on the plane much longer, and move swiftly on to the next scapegoat to distract from all the bumbling.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-coronavirus-variants-dont-seem-to-be-highly-variable-so-far/

Have a feeling this bit of science will be left of the shelf for a while as more time is needed for observation - unlike the science of UK variant being 70% more lethal than its predecessor, that science needed to be rolled out ASAP.

thought this was quite valid, which a lot will just over look from the article

Because many newly discovered variants appear to be resampling the mutations found in other established variants, we can speculate that the virus is beginning to run out of new, major adaptations. But this doesn’t mean that that the forces of evolution will stop as we begin to approach herd immunity and loosen restrictions. History tells us that viruses can evolve rapidly to evade barriers to transmission, especially when infections remain numerous. We must remember that the more infections there are, the more chance mutations will occur, and those that best help the virus to survive will proliferate. This is why stopping new infections is key. These viral adaptations are already rewriting our biology textbooks on convergent evolution; let’s strive to limit new material.

Penfailed

gozunda wrote: »

True.

The funny thing is that pubs there (NI) aren't even open yet. With plans when they do so - will be on a phased basis.

I do love when the critics have to cherrypick random locations to use as a big stick to beat us with with regard to the easing of restrictions

I didn't want to bring pubs into the discussion but as you are here, (wet) pubs have actually been closed for longer in the north than here (except Dublin). They've reintroduced click and collect yesterday (we didn't). They had all pupils back to school yesterday (we also did). The more vaccines into arms, the more we can reopen.

Riodej1578

I assume the UK isn't on the quarantine list?? If so, we'll see plenty of people holidaying to the UK this year?

Klonker

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Listing a load of "we were tolds" isn't an argument.

It seems you have a problem with anybody reasonably speculating or even coming up with evidence that any variant could be more dangerous for the public health situation.

It has been widely reported that the situation in Brazil as regards young people suffering from Covid is very serious.

But perhaps you know more than the people on the ground there, who presumably all have cynical motives for saying such.

I guess everybody who doesn't agree with the "let's underestimate this" narrative has a cynical motive, or something like that.

Very important to try and undermine the credibility of experts who deal in realism, not pollyannaism.

We've been told for the last 3 months about this deadlier Brazilian variant. You'd think they'd have a bit of data to show its more deadly by now, rather that just hear say.

I didn't underestimate the English variant, it looks like all our health experts and politicians over estimated it and stated it not that it may be more deadly but as a fact that it is more deadly. We've also been told since Christmas more and more younger people with no underlying conditions are ending up in hospital due to the English variant. Any proof of this? Of course not. No report of underlying conditions of people in hospital has been released since mid December.

But you keep going overestimating everything even with no proof like a good lad, especially these deadlier viruses.

Penfailed

Graham wrote: »

It's almost as if we learn more over time.

As I said if the fatality rate is the same but it spreads to more people, the result will be more deaths.

Boris Johnson even mentioned in one of their briefings that it was more deadly.

dalyboy

Riodej1578 wrote: »

I assume the UK isn't on the quarantine list?? If so, we'll see plenty of people holidaying to the UK this year?

There will be no restriction of travel to the UK 4-6 weeks from now.
I’ve only got off a what’s app text thread with 8 lads this morning. We are heading for a ferry N.I to Scotland at the beginning of June for a much needed one week “golfing” break away.

I’m personally relocating to the UK this summer for a couple of months as I’m not tied down where I can work.

Much of the UK and N.I is going to be wedged by Irish travellers July and August

From an Irish perspective it’s sad indeed as I would have very much have liked to support my locality and struggling hospitality businesses but realistically can’t see most of them survive. Our weather does not support the outside eating and drinking model which they’re going to be coerced into adopting for the medium term.

darem93

My cousin in England was snapping me all evening yesterday from the beer garden and a part of me was delighted for her but a part of me was also very jealous.

There seemed to be a real feeling of hope over there yesterday, while on the same day in Ireland we had another massive blow to our already slow vaccination programme, and then got hammered with lines like "an abundance of caution" and "a potential fourth wave if we lift restrictions".

What an utterly depressing time to live in this country.

gozunda

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Cherrypicking occurs on both sides of the debate. For every England and Israel, there's a Brazil and Chile.

Well that might be true - except that direct comparison is useful to highligh real issues such as how ICU rates can rise suddenly and catastrophically etc

But nooo - we're firmly told by the critics that's not allowed - as there's way too many differences!

Definitely odd why some always look for the differences as to why things can't be so - whilst blatantly pushing it when needs be

But fuq me if a Pub opens in Outer Mongolia - then its going not only get trumpeted here but we're going to get feking pictures as well :pac:

ArthurDayne

Downlinz wrote: »

There's nothing crazy about it. The risk proposition of AZ for young people at low threat from covid simply doesn't make sense when a better vaccine is available.

They're being honest, transparent and showing a willingness to change plans in order to offer the public the best option for their risk category. That's really reassuring for me.

Who really cares what anti-vaxxers think? They're not going to take the jab regardless and they'll use whatever happens to fit their narrative regardless. In this case they'll use it as "evidence" that the vaccines are unsafe, if we pushed ahead with AZ they'd claim it as proof that government don't care about our safety.

A willingness to change plans sounds somewhat euphemistically like a willingness to move goalposts. It’s difficult for a government which has happily massaged the scare stories about the danger of a Covid for young people to now suddenly rely on the contradictory narrative that it isn’t much of a threat.

It seems sometimes that it’s not so much a willingness to change plans, but a desperation to find whatever narrative is most convenient for the government’s PR.

darem93

darem93 wrote: »

My cousin in England was snapping me all evening yesterday from the beer garden and a part of me was delighted for her but a part of me was also very jealous.

There seemed to be a real feeling of hope over there yesterday, while on the same day in Ireland we had another massive blow to our already slow vaccination programme, and then got hammered with lines like "an abundance of caution" and "a potential fourth wave if we lift restrictions".

What an utterly depressing time to live in this country.

As of yesterday, the UK has 11% of population vaccinated, vs 6.5% in Ireland.

Parachutes

Those advocating zero covid and more restrictions obviously never studied economics in school.

Graham

Parachutes wrote: »

Those advocating zero covid and more restrictions obviously never studied economics in school.

who mentioned zero covid?

facehugger99

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'll never get over how many westerners all but handed over their rights without question. Even if you're a true believer in lockdowns, you should still be questioning the suppression of our rights, even if it is for the greater good. Before the virus most of us thought our rights were ironclad, since then it's clear that that's not the case. Wider society really needs to wake up to the fact that our rights only have strength if we give them strength. Having your rights taken from you, and not even asking about validity of the decision, does nothing but weaken our rights. The sad thing is, this is only the start. I don't think people realize the precedent that they've set by being so weak willed in the face of a threat.

The Dutch, French, Germans, Spanish, etc have all had some form of political and societal questioning of the widespread suspension of civil rights.

The Irish have been the incredibly willing to trade away the most rights with barely a peek from anyone. All it took was a bit of fearmongering from the media and the borrowing of tens of billions to bribe everyone.

We have really shown ourselves up as an embarrassment.

Easy to see how the Catholic Church prospered here for so many decades.

Downlinz

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'll never get over how many westerners all but handed over their rights without question. Even if you're a true believer in lockdowns, you should still be questioning the suppression of our rights, even if it is for the greater good. Before the virus most of us thought our rights were ironclad, since then it's clear that that's not the case. Wider society really needs to wake up to the fact that our rights only have strength if we give them strength. Having your rights taken from you, and not even asking about validity of the decision, does nothing but weaken our rights. The sad thing is, this is only the start. I don't think people realize the precedent that they've set by being so weak willed in the face of a threat.

The ballot box is always going to be the check against political tyranny in western democracies.

What I don't get is how people continue to make posts like this without even mentioning the parties in power and the possibility to replace them with other parties who may have different views on eroding citizen rights. As if political power is some sort of single entity that we must struggle against but can never really change.

The precedent given to FF and FG is more or less irrelevant in the long term if the Irish public decide to remove them. It's nothing to do with being strong or weak willed, just recognising that change happens through elections and not on your keyboard or the street.

ypres5

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Recent study suggests this virus may be running out of possible mutations.

From Vaughn Cooper evolutional biologist at Pittsburgh University, and cited by The Times in UK.

Also of interest is the convergence of mutations - it’s likely that the same mutations will arise in separate geographic locations independently while the virus is circulating.

Maybe we need not be fearing ‘variants’ from certain locations coming in on the plane much longer, and move swiftly on to the next scapegoat to distract from all the bumbling.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-coronavirus-variants-dont-seem-to-be-highly-variable-so-far/

Have a feeling this bit of science will be left of the shelf for a while as more time is needed for observation - unlike the science of UK variant being 70% more lethal than its predecessor, that science needed to be rolled out ASAP.

Someone book george lee into grief counselling

dalyboy

Downlinz wrote: »

The ballot box is always going to be the check against political tyranny in western democracies.

What I don't get is how people continue to make posts like this without even mentioning the parties in power and the possibility to replace them with other parties who may have different views on eroding citizen rights. As if political power is some sort of single entity that we must struggle against but can never really change.

The precedent given to FF and FG is more or less irrelevant in the long term if the Irish public decide to remove them. It's nothing to do with being strong or weak willed, just recognising that change happens through elections and not on your keyboard or the street.

And the Irish political party alternative to FF and FG that would allow us our freedoms reinstated would be ......... ?

Downlinz

ArthurDayne wrote: »

A willingness to change plans sounds somewhat euphemistically like a willingness to move goalposts. It’s difficult for a government which has happily massaged the scare stories about the danger of a Covid for young people to now suddenly rely on the contradictory narrative that it isn’t much of a threat.

It seems sometimes that it’s not so much a willingness to change plans, but a desperation to find whatever narrative is most convenient for the government’s PR.

The government plan was always to follow health advice, which is understandably changing as we learn more about the virus and the vaccines.

The government has been out of its depth during this pandemic and it shows with their communication, generally preferring to treat the general public like children and explain things in simplistic ways before later contradicting themselves because leaned too heavily into the previous message.

If you listen only to the medical advice and ignore the fluff coming from the likes of Donnelly then everything is a lot more coherent.

Downlinz

dalyboy wrote: »

And the Irish political party alternative to FF and FG that would allow us our freedoms reinstated would be ......... ?

Apparently it's the "Irish Freedom Party" who have organised a lot of the anti-lockdown rallies.

Small parties built around a single issue can gain traction and make a difference as seen with UKIP in the UK. If enough people care about the issue that is.

But shrugging your shoulder and claiming there's no alternative is the absolute worst thing you could ever do.

Allinall

Akesh wrote: »

The same curtain twitchers who are destroying the hospitality sector are the same people concerned about eating out with the uncleansed and unvaccinated.

You couldn't make it up.

You just did.

Faugheen

Parachutes wrote: »

Those advocating zero covid and more restrictions obviously never studied economics in school.

There are people advocating for zero COVID?

Did anyone in this thread say that or are you referring to the Anthony Staines and Gerry Killeens?

Chivito550

They've really destroyed this country. Firstly create mass hysteria about the problem (the virus). Then compliment it with mass hysteria about the solution (the vaccine). People are now trapped between two walls of hysteria and don't know how to break out of it.

It's utterly disgusting, and the media have a huge part to play in this.

JRant

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As of yesterday, the UK has 11% of population vaccinated, vs 6.5% in Ireland.

Where has this crazy notion come from that the first dose doesn't seem to count for anything?

Sure, you need the second one as a booster to increase the longevity of the vaccines effectiveness. But this notion you need both to be protected is just anti science at this stage.

The UK have a lot more than 11% vaccinated and we have around 20% here.

the kelt

Faugheen wrote: »

There are people advocating for zero COVID?

Did anyone in this thread say that or are you referring to the Anthony Staines and Gerry Killeens?

I would say this is classed as a zero covid approach

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116873962&postcount=5012

JRant

The joint committee on health is some car crash. Glynn taking in cliches. He thinks a hopefully message is "stay locked down for another 6 weeks". Wants to keep these levels of restrictions for a few months while we get everyone vaccinated and we will be in a place to open certain things up at that stage.

Hurrache

Chivito550 wrote: »

They've really destroyed this country. Firstly create mass hysteria about the problem (the virus). Then compliment it with mass hysteria about the solution (the vaccine). People are now trapped between two walls of hysteria and don't know how to break out of it.

It's utterly disgusting, and the media have a huge part to play in this.

Well since you cross post, I'll follow with my response.

Like I said, stop peddling "they've really destroyed this county" when it's a worldwide commonalty as to how the vaccines are being handled.

The grass isn't greener. There's plenty of criticism to be made, but the ridiculous idea that it's only NPHET/FF/MM etc in Ireland that are making these sort of decisions is frankly stupid.

aidoh

The scientific illiteracy in this country, despite our excellent educational system, is absolutely ballistic.

Dont know how many times I've heard people say that you can and will probably catch covid more than once, that just because you've had it doesn't make you immune, that just because you've had it you still need the vaccine, that just because you've had the vaccine you still have to wear masks, atomise yourself and continue to exist in a joyless dystopian nightmare indefinitely.

Then I look out our scientists in charge (HSE lifers with GP medical backgrounds but probably no actual research experience) tout this same imbecilic sh!t to the media and it all makes sense.

I am baffled as to how we ever achieved independence a century ago.

I don't see a way back to normality.

nocoverart

I’m gagging for a greasy breakfast from a cafe and then a couple of early scoops straight after, its the little things in life you’d miss most.

Corholio

Downlinz wrote: »

Apparently it's the "Irish Freedom Party" who have organised a lot of the anti-lockdown rallies.

Small parties built around a single issue can gain traction and make a difference as seen with UKIP in the UK. If enough people care about the issue that is.

But shrugging your shoulder and claiming there's no alternative is the absolute worst thing you could ever do.

I think not shrugging your shoulder and choosing the Irish Freedom Party is a much, much worse thing to do.