Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So lockdown to avoid lockdown

:rolleyes:

was funnier the first 100 times. Now it's just tiresome.

Monster249

Graham wrote: »

:rolleyes:

was funnier the first 100 times. Now it's just tiresome.

That's exactly what you're saying? There's an inherent risk to getting out of bed in the morning, were never ever going to be rid of this virus. There has to come a time when, regardless of cases, we have to open up regardless and deal with it.

Penfailed

paw patrol wrote: »

*mod snip - discussing mod actions*



we are under house arrest - you aren't allowed leave your house unless you have a valid reason. The validity of that reason is determined by the state (the gardai).

If that isn't house arrest , please tell me what is?

sure we aren't being beaten (yet!) by the gardai.
But break those rules - like balbriggan or the shebeen at the back of swords (knocksedan) and watch the gardai show up mob handed...armed ****ing response to the shebeen.

I don't know why you can't see there is something inherently wrong in that from a so called free democracy .
It most surely is house arrest.

It most surely isn't. Will you be arrested for leaving your house? No. Will you be told to go back home if you leave your house? Extremely unlikely. If you are told to, you're probably outside your 5km and have been an arse to the guard who asked you. It's light touch stuff lads. The police in other countries are way more strict about these things.
Regarding the police state thing, I get it, there's a new definition. Ireland still doesn't meet that definition. There isn't "an overbearing presence of civil authorities." Maybe because I grew up at the tail end of the troubles in the north and was stopped regularly by armed police and the army, I have a different attitude to the unarmed, generally friendly guards.
The banana republic thing? Ireland doesn't even come near any definition, new or otherwise, of a banana republic.
Knock yourself out playing the victim of this 'despotic' government if it makes you feel better somehow. I don't understand what anyone has to gain from it though.

end of the road

Monster249 wrote: »

That's exactly what you're saying? There's an inherent risk to getting out of bed in the morning, were never ever going to be rid of this virus. There has to come a time when, regardless of cases, we have to open up regardless and deal with it.

you are incorrect.
opening up regardless of cases isn't going to happen, because of the major over all damage it would cause.
we are dealing with covid, hence restrictions, lock down and vaccine.

Monster249

end of the road wrote: »

you are incorrect.
opening up regardless of cases isn't going to happen, because of the major over all damage it would cause.
we are dealing with covid, hence restrictions, lock down and vaccine.

My point was that Covid isn't going away. So if the cases never drop below the current sum, what's your solution? Lockdown forever and let thousands die of other conditions/diseases and let 500,000 people lose their jobs?

Monster249

end of the road wrote: »

you are incorrect.
opening up regardless of cases isn't going to happen, because of the major over all damage it would cause.
we are dealing with covid, hence restrictions, lock down and vaccine.

I'll also add were dealing with it dreadfully. We have the longest lockdown in Europe and the current toughest restrictions in the Western World. The answer isn't just 'more lockdown' - that's the lazy, idiotic way out of it.

end of the road

Monster249 wrote: »

My point was that Covid isn't going away. So if the cases never drop below the current sum, what's your solution? Lockdown forever and let thousands die of other conditions/diseases and let 500,000 people lose their jobs?

the vaccines are already helping cases drop, and cases will once the vaccination program is completed be so low as to not be a public health issue.
however if it did become a public health issue again then i'm afraid restrictions would be reimplemented.
sadly people were losing jobs anyway, it's sad for them but there was nothing we could have done about it as covid causes damage regardless in both medical and non-medical forms.

Monster249 wrote: »

I'll also add were dealing with it dreadfully. We have the longest lockdown in Europe and the current toughest restrictions in the Western World. The answer isn't just 'more lockdown' - that's the lazy, idiotic way out of it.

our restrictions aren't the toughist in the western world, in fact they are quite easy compared to most of europe during their lock downs, which have been hard lock downs unlike our light touch one.
unfortunately lock down and restrictions are the only way to control the virus and minimise spread until the vaccination programs are rolled out sufficiently enough for covid to no longer be a public health issue.
if there genuinely was another way that would have delivered
1. low deaths.
2. insured the systems of the country remained functional at all times.
3. insured the economy would actually keep working.
then we would have gone with that option instead.
there wasn't such an option, so we couldn't go with it.

acequion

Penfailed wrote: »

There isn't "an overbearing presence of civil authorities." Maybe because I grew up at the tail end of the troubles in the north and was stopped regularly by armed police and the army, I have a different attitude to the unarmed, generally friendly guards.
The banana republic thing? Ireland doesn't even come near any definition, new or otherwise, of a banana republic.

So that's where you're coming from Penfailed? Interesting. So if you grew up in a war situation, that at its time was unique in western Europe and quite extreme by any European standards at the time, ok tail end as you say, then you will not see the current State behavior as totalitarian. But please allow many of us to see it as very totalitarian and actually very frightening. You were responding to Paw Patrol who painted a very realistic picture of where we are right now. A place few, if any of us, ever envisioned in our worst nightmares.

And I'm afraid we are a banana republic. We undoubtedly were when the IMF came knocking on our door last time around. And will be again, I really fear for our future. Our political leadership is dire and our opposition who will probably form the next Govt, a bunch of former terrorists at worst, extreme nationalist at best. Not grounds for optimism.

Monster249

end of the road wrote: »

the vaccines are already helping cases drop, and cases will once the vaccination program is completed be so low as to not be a public health issue.
however if it did become a public health issue again then i'm afraid restrictions would be reimplemented.
sadly people were losing jobs anyway, it's sad for them but there was nothing we could have done about it as covid causes damage regardless in both medical and non-medical forms.








our restrictions aren't the toughist in the western world, in fact they are quite easy compared to most of europe during their lock downs, which have been hard lock downs unlike our light touch one.
unfortunately lock down and restrictions are the only way to control the virus and minimise spread until the vaccination programs are rolled out sufficiently enough for covid to no longer be a public health issue.
if there genuinely was another way that would have delivered
1. low deaths.
2. insured the systems of the country remained functional at all times.
3. insured the economy would actually keep working.
then we would have gone with that option instead.
there wasn't such an option, so we couldn't go with it.

So this is what I'm saying. once everyone's vaccinated, you're really suggesting a lockdown where we close businesses again is a viable solution? Get a grip. I'm not saying social distancing and mask wearing should stop, I'm talking about actual business closure.

It's a fact that we have been in lockdown longer than any other country in europe. It's also been subjectively suggested that we have the strictest measures in the western world. Other countries go harder but it's for 3 weeks at a time, not this prolonged lockdown for 6 months. You lose people and people start doing what they want which is exactly what's happening and it's only going to get worse.

We can't have it all. We have to accept a level of death, just like we accept a risk with everything else we do. That's how we live with it. We simply cannot hit the lockdown button every time.

gozunda

Monster249 wrote: »

I'll also add were dealing with it dreadfully. We have the longest lockdown in Europe and the current toughest restrictions in the Western World. The answer isn't just 'more lockdown' - that's the lazy, idiotic way out of it.

What the previous poster said. our restrictions aren't 'the toughist in the western world'

And the sooner we get the numbers down and vaccines up - then the sooner we're were out of "lockdown'. It's really not too difficult to work it out tbf.

Monster249

gozunda wrote: »

^^^ what the previous poster said. And the sooner we get the numbers down and vaccines up - then the sooner we're were out of "lockdown'. Its not too difficult to work it out tbf.

That's my point. I'm not advocating an instant reopening, but once the most at-risk are vaccinated, we have to open because the damage is outweighing the benefit at that stage.

What the previous poster is suggesting is that once everyone is vaccinated, the solution if people are still dying is more restrictions which just isn't going to happen.

ceadaoin.

Graham wrote: »

Or

don't reopen too soon otherwise we'll be straight back into restrictions.

That sounds much more sensible doesn't it.

Or

Maybe don't just lockdown everything which only results in cases surging on reopening and having to lockdown again? Rather, a more steady trajectory might be better by allowing people to mix but limiting numbers. That's what flatten the curve is supposed to be or did everyone forget that?

Cluedo Monopoly

I suspect you will see a lot of people out and about this weekend. I think it will be very noticeable.

Penfailed

acequion wrote: »

And I'm afraid we are a banana republic. We undoubtedly were when the IMF came knocking on our door last time around. And will be again, I really fear for our future. Our political leadership is dire and our opposition who will probably form the next Govt, a bunch of former terrorists at worst, extreme nationalist at best. Not grounds for optimism.

What definition of banana republic do we fall under? I've had a good look and I can't see us ticking the boxes that meet any version. Is it just a catch all phrase now that sounds kinda edgy?

Penfailed

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I suspect you will see a lot of people out and about this weekend. I think it will be very noticeable.

Depends on the weather. If it's good, why wouldn't people be out and about? It's not like we're under house arrest or anything.

fin12

I’m feeling like a caged animal and now when I see a Garda car is like this sinking panic feeling. Pure anxiety.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

Depends on the weather. If it's good, why wouldn't people be out and about? It's not like we're under house arrest or anything.

Why does my TV say stay at home?

Stheno

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Why does my TV say stay at home?

Your watching the wrong channel?

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Why does my TV say stay at home?

That's government advice. My advice, if the weather is good, is to get outside and get some natural Vitamin D, fresh air and exercise. It's great for the mind and body. Of course, you're free to stay at home too if you want.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

That's government advice. My advice, if the weather is good, is to get outside and get some natural Vitamin D, fresh air and exercise. It's great for the mind and body. Of course, you're free to stay at home too if you want.

Are you advising me not to follow the public health advice?

Isn’t that a dangerous precedent to start?

Yapamillias

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you advising me not to follow the public health advice?

Isn’t that a dangerous precedent to start?

Isn't going outside for a walk, getting fresh air, Vit D considered exercise and allowed?

Graham

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Or

Maybe don't just lockdown everything which only results in cases surging on reopening and having to lockdown again?

Don't reopen too soon.

Don't reopen everything at once.

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Don't reopen too soon.

Don't reopen everything at once.

Luckily Ireland have a habit of never reopening so we should be ok

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Luckily Ireland have a habit of never reopening so we should be ok

That must just be your house Fintan.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you advising me not to follow the public health advice?

Isn’t that a dangerous precedent to start?

Does public health advice advise you not to get some Vitamin D and exercise? If so (and I doubt it), then yeah, I'm advising you not to follow the public health advice. Get outside and get some fresh air round yer oxters. It'll do you the world of good.

FintanMcluskey

Yapamillias wrote: »

Isn't going outside for a walk, getting fresh air, Vit D considered exercise and allowed?

The Irish broadcast channels all permanently advise viewers to stay at home, and have done for almost a year now.

They don’t advice to get adequate exercise

I don’t see the same warnings on Uk channels

Yapamillias

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The Irish broadcast channels all permanently advise viewers to stay at home, and have done for almost a year now.

They don’t advice to get adequate exercise

I don’t see the same warnings on Uk channels

I don't watch enough of the Irish media broadcasts to have a firm understanding of their Covid roadmap. It might have something to do with lack of variety of amenities (tons of people in the parks near where I live).

It's a shame. I think there are a lot of people that I know of too scared to perform any low risk factor activities because they are too afraid of infection.

ceadaoin.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The Irish broadcast channels all permanently advise viewers to stay at home, and have done for almost a year now.

They don’t advice to get adequate exercise

I don’t see the same warnings on Uk channels

That used to be the motto here too. We had "stay home" and then "stay home 2.0" when cases went up over the summer. Now it's changed to "stay home if you're sick" and no one has mentioned the difference as if that was always the advise. I'm sure ireland will get there eventually

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The Irish broadcast channels all permanently advise viewers to stay at home, and have done for almost a year now.

They don’t advice to get adequate exercise

Why would you need someone on the television to tell you to stop watching the television and go get some exercise?

Strumms

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The Irish broadcast channels all permanently advise viewers to stay at home, and have done for almost a year now.

They don’t advice to get adequate exercise

I don’t see the same warnings on Uk channels

You should stop paying attention to ‘channels’ and focus instead on health experts...


None of whom are advising you to stay at home permanently or otherwise .

HSE are advocating adequate exercising during covid..

https://www2.hse.ie/wellbeing/fitness-for-your-lifestyle.html