Sinn Fein cancels bomber commemoration

James Brown

So when people, (a shinner and Bertie) spoke about the character of Paul Quinn in 2007, the shinners were held to account in the run up to the 2020 election, (while every societal crisis was ignored). It was easily the biggest news item that week.

Now we've the very same champions of decency attacking the family of a dead man.

So it seems using the family of a dead man as figures of pretend sympathy for facebook likes or attacking the family of another dead man for political point scoring is fair game with the FF/FG posses.

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

People today want to move on and try and continue to build peace and harmony, and this glorifying attitude that SF cannot seem to drop, is wrong,m and is rightly being called out.

I do not want a party in my country, that may be in charge, on this up the RA nonsense.....

The IRA served their time and purpose, as bad as some may see that, without the IRA/SF, we would not have been given the chance for peace

BUT, we need to drop it now.......

No harm in not forgetting, but actively remembering needs careful consideration....there are too many sensitivities here on all sides

People don't need so called democratic and peaceful people/parties commemorating so publicly acts of violence, where people suffered terrible, not matter why the acts were carried out.

It's just bad form...and only emphasizes and keeps the image up of this anti England buzz off some people, when really, most Irish people are absolutely not anti England.

Simple: SF today SHOULD NOT BE the SF from years ago.....they just shouldn't. We have all moved on and changed.

People here seeing no issue with the up the RA, and tweets celebrating death is just obscene.

And, is there anyone in the party with any common sense and leadership? To move away from this actively hanging on to atrocities does not at all sit well with many. SF would get a lot more support if they changed here.

Walshb gonna get awfully mad at the blueshirts now, just wait.....any minute now......


https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1363050763132407810?s=19

Yurt2

tipptom wrote: »

What amazes me is that the British PR machine can convince Irishmen that the people who fought back against the foreign terrorist British army war machine were the terrorists,in their own country

The Catholic NI people put up with and were cowed into submission for decades before the British allowed the Protestants to go and and burn them out of their own country before the IRA were forced into forming an army to fight for their very existance and defend their people

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is when good men and women do nothing

The IRA did do something and ensured this would not happen again and the Catholics of NI are now prospering for that after gaing a amount of equality,they just now need to stop the British terrorists from burning poor immigrants out of their homes

I have friends from up North, Catholic, but not in any particular way connected with SF or the IRA - who absolutely wretch at the attitudes of some south of the border when it comes to the troubles.

Their community was literally subjected to pogroms, housing and employment redlining, political gerrymandering of the highest order and the denial of one-man one-vote. It was a corrupted little artificial state designed to marginalize one community, and exalt the other.

They don't engage in condoning some of the actions of the Republican movement, but they bloody well understand how it all happened.
Most of all, they object to the limp-wristed hang-wringing from a certain type middle-class little Irelander down South about only some of the violence, and only some of the very dark wrongs that were committed in the province; the truth of which will probably remain buried for a very long time. And they know the hang-wringing and tut-tutting about the nationalist community comes from a fear of the political landscape shifting and P45s being issued via the ballot box.

Were there ever a united Ireland in the near to medium term, a lot of outreach would need to take place with the Unionist community yes, but there shouldn't be an underestimation that a hell of a lot of northern Catholics don't regard the same said little Irelanders as their friends either - a political football, but only when it suits the agenda of a strand of the political class south of Newry.

Natterjack from Kerry

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

I thinks it a point worth raising repeatedly though, and they are right to do it. While SF members and activists are supporters of terrorism, I dont think all who vote for them are. I would guess more likely, they dont know what they are really voting for, and are unaware that they are victims of a united Ireland strategy controlled from abroad. Quote apart from being supporters of murder and violence, SF is the most devious and dishonest party going - and calling this out is the right thing to do.

I think people are aware of what they are voting for. The fact that SF had links with the IRA isn’t an obscure detail known to a tiny number. Like it or not SF have become the main opposition party, particularly amongst the young. None of this blather will move the needle to support for or against SF. Fix housing. Then the support for SF will drop.

Gatling

McMurphy wrote: »

Walshb gonna get awfully mad at the blueshirts now, just wait.....any minute now......


https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1363050763132407810?s=19

Ra not having a great weekend at all

tipptom

McMurphy wrote: »

Walshb gonna get awfully mad at the blueshirts now, just wait.....any minute now......


https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1363050763132407810?s=19

Wonder were they among the men who "dissapeared" in two years over 4 times the amount of "disappeared" that there was throughout the entire 40 years of the troubles in NI

But FG/FF/irish media will scurry like rats out of the juristriction during an election to the McConvilles for photo ops every five years and then abandon them when they have got their use for electioneering purposes straight after the polls close

The hypocracy is nauseating.

Natterjack from Kerry

Gatling wrote: »

Ra not having a great weekend at all

Probably having it a bit rough.

Scratchly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people are aware of what they are voting for. The fact that SF had links with the IRA isn’t an obscure detail known to a tiny number. Like it or not SF have become the main opposition party, particularly amongst the young. None of this blather will move the needle to support for or against SF. Fix housing. Then the support for SF will drop.

I would say a lot of people have no idea what they're voting for, they just know what they're not voting for which is FG and FF. People obviously want a change. But the sharp increase in SF support isn't because SF candidates suddenly struck a chord with the electorate or their fantasy policies are the best way forward. They were voted in because they weren't FF or FG and SF was the only party that could realistically challenge them.

While this stuff might not have that big of an impact given FF and FG are both in government and people are unhappy it's not going down well with a lot of people who want an alternative government. Not a bunch of RA heads celebrating idiots who were planting bombs in London.

James Brown

Scratchly wrote: »

I would say a lot of people have no idea what they're voting for, they just know what they're not voting for which is FG and FF. People obviously want a change. But the sharp increase in SF support isn't because SF candidates suddenly struck a chord with the electorate or their fantasy policies are the best way forward. They were voted in because they weren't FF or FG and SF was the only party that could realistically challenge them.

While this stuff might not have that big of an impact given FF and FG are both in government and people are unhappy it's not going down well with a lot of people who want an alternative government. Not a bunch of RA heads celebrating idiots who were planting bombs in London.

So the only reason SF did so well was due to the incompetence and cronyism and all round bad governance of FF/FG.
Didn't FF and FG make careers out of taking turns at that 'success'?
I give SF a vote because they would be better than FF/FG. Not simply because they're not FF/FG. I gave the greens nothing. I gave Labour nothing.

If SF can't follow through 100% I'll take that over the bad attitude and policies of FF/FG.

McMurphy

Gatling wrote: »

Ra not having a great weekend at all

The Ra are gone gat, it's the people peddling faux outrage and hypocritical BS that seem to be floundering.

FG Friday: The Shinners are disgraceful, holding commerorations for IRA members who were killed in their actions against the Brits.

FG Saturday: let's all remember the battle of Clonmult, and now over to FGs Michael Hegarty, who's uncle Dick (IRA vol) heroically died that day in active service at the hands of the Brits.

It's complete bullshyt fcukerty from them, and they dam well know it.

IAMAMORON

It kind of epitomises the truth behind your average IRA bot that they are more than happy to flood the thread that was hoping to maybe discuss the reality of a subversive terrorist movement that managed to charm a teenage baker from Wexford into thinking that he was part of the big picture and that he was doing his country a service by travelling to London and blowing up some strangers... for the cause.

That's how they do. It kind of makes me wonder what type of Irishman that makes me?

This is not about politics. This is about how terrorists manage to influence the naive mind of a child. Send him up the mountains with the boys.... tell him he belongs and that he is a soldier for freedom. Tell him some war stories. Tell him that he reminds them of some other dead martyr. Tell him he is doing what no other Irishman has " the guts" to do.... for the cause.

The bots were all young and naive one day too. They love their country, it's the evil gubbermint that's the problem seemingly. The free staters who turned their backs on the big fight for freedom.

So spoof away about how it is all Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil fault that a young fella from Gorey blew himself and 7 other people up 4 days after Valentines day 25 years ago on a public bus in London. Jazz that one up. The poor fella was recruited during a ceasefire. They got him in handy, fresh blood. The reality is that most mothers in the 6 counties were watching their young fellas' like a hawk, they were earning their own wings. They were praying that after 18 years of murder and killings, in a very dirty war , that somebody somewhere was seeing the light.

But Edward O'Brien didn't know the half of the troubles. He might have seen a few clips on UTV or the news. But he knew nothing of what he was getting in for. He was perfect for the job he was recruited for. He was told he a great man and sent over the sea... for the cause.

Don't make it about politics bots, it is not the gubbermints' fault that the IRA were into sending teenagers over the water to do their dirty work for them. At least respect Edward O'Brien and offer him the respect and dignity which your army council stole from him.... for the cause.

Scratchly

James Brown wrote: »

So the only reason SF did so well was due to the incompetence and cronyism and all round bad governance of FF/FG.
Didn't FF and FG make careers out of taking turns at that 'success'?
I give SF a vote because they would be better than FF/FG. Not simply because they're not FF/FG. I gave the greens nothing. I gave Labour nothing.

If SF can't follow through 100% I'll take that over the bad attitude and policies of FF/FG.

First of all I didn't say the first part. I said a lot of people weren't happy with FF and FG so wanted an alternative. Whether they're incompetent is subjective of course. There's lots of people who think they're the best option. Hence they're currently in government.

And there's plenty frequent defenders of SF on here who said exactly that. They voted SF because they're not FFG. It was the social media trend at the time of the election. As you say a lot of people feel FF and FG have traded governments for too long and want a change. Same with plenty of people I know personally.

What I also find though is the old RA stuff doesn't sit well with the new support. That support isn't for RA heads to commemorate terrorists. It's for an alternative government. And the old school RA support is an issue to be dealt with on the the way to getting a credible party to break FF and FG trading places.

For me SF haven't evolved enough as a party. Their priorities and attitude is still that of the opposition die hard Republican. Populist politics and policies because they know they won't have to implement them, just claim the solutions to all problems are easy but the evil man is keeping the poor folk down. And then a lot of odd balls with questionable views stuck in the past. I'd like more political options to FF and FG too but I don't think SF would be an improvement.

James Brown

Scratchly wrote: »

First of all I didn't say the first part. I said a lot of people weren't happy with FF and FG so wanted an alternative. Whether they're incompetent is subjective of course. There's lots of people who think they're the best option. Hence they're currently in government.

And there's plenty frequent defenders of SF on here who said exactly that. They voted SF because they're not FFG. It was the social media trend at the time of the election. As you say a lot of people feel FF and FG have traded governments for too long and want a change. Same with plenty of people I know personally.

What I also find though is the old RA stuff doesn't sit well with the new support. That support isn't for RA heads to commemorate terrorists. It's for an alternative government. And the old school RA support is an issue to be dealt with on the the way to getting a credible party to break FF and FG trading places.

For me SF haven't evolved enough as a party. Their priorities and attitude is still that of the opposition die hard Republican. Populist politics and policies because they know they won't have to implement them, just claim the solutions to all problems are easy but the evil man is keeping the poor folk down. And then a lot of odd balls with questionable views stuck in the past. I'd like more political options to FF and FG too but I don't think SF would be an improvement.

I don't attempt to speak for Ireland I'm not a FG'er.
For me the IRA is done since the GFA. They have little bearing on whether I give SF a nod or not. What the 'RA did in 1971 won't affect the housing or health crises.

Natterjack from Kerry

IAMAMORON wrote: »

This is not about politics. This is about how terrorists manage to influence the naive mind of a child. Send him up the mountains with the boys.... tell him he belongs and that he is a soldier for freedom. Tell him some war stories. Tell him that he reminds them of some other dead martyr. Tell him he is doing what no other Irishman has " the guts" to do.... for the cause.

Did I misunderstand, or see elsewhere, that his father is an SF man? If so, well there you have it. Responsibility lies there too.

Scratchly

tipptom wrote: »

What amazes me is that the British PR machine can convince Irishmen that the people who fought back against the foreign terrorist British army war machine were the terrorists,in their own country

O'Brien wasn't in his own country. He was in London on a public bus with a homemade explosive that he planned to leave in public to put innocent lives at risk with the aim of pressuring the British government.

Can you explain to me where I've been duped by the British PR machine and how that isn't terrorism?

CrazyFather1

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What changed in those twelve months, in your opinion? I witnessed the change in real time and the primary driver of it at least in my own circle was an unprecedented wave of rent inflation. Truly staggering figures particularly for some parts of Dublin - to give you one example, a friend of mine who had been paying market rate ~€1,250 for one year, for a very spacious one bedroom apartment owned by a small time landlord who had to take the flat back for her son who was coming home from college abroad, emerged into a market in which she was expected to pay €1,650 (and that was at the cheap end of the scale) for a much smaller flat in a building owned by a vulture fund who collected rent and did absolutely nothing else. This place had holes in the windows and serious condensation issues to name just a few.

Numerous other friends of mine were forced to move home in their late twenties during that same period Spring 2018 - Winter 2019, because their rents were skyrocketing to completely obscene levels and every loophole in the book was being used to circumvent RPZ legislation. Repossession for renovation or personal use only for the unchanged flat to appear on Daft or AirBnB almost immediately with an inflated price, etc. People were seriously getting screwed in ways which are extremely difficult to properly explain in a post like this, but people were really really suffering and seeing their lives backslide in their twenties because this inflation was essentially forcing them to reverse the progress they'd made in living independent lives, and forcing them back into either their family homes or into crowded accommodation where they had previously been able to afford far better conditions.

Fine Gael fiddled while Rome burned during the same period, and the policy of "let them eat cake" pushed by Eoghan Murphy, who told this generation that they should be "excited" and "privileged" to live in a glorified hostel for €1,400 per month while his government blocked social housing developments all over Dublin on the basis that the sell-off to the private sector wasn't big enough.

This is what has been driving the SF surge. Simple economics and mathematics. Any period of stagflation (cost of living inflation combined with stagnant take-home pay) will lead to political unrest and upheaval, but an arrogant, obnoxious, "let them ear cake" reaction from those in power will cause all-out rage and revolt.

During the same period, SF were among the most vocal in trying to stop the further privatisation of the housing system (most notably O'Devaney Gardens in Dublin) and this shone through in every one of the debates leading up to the election.

Point is, none of these issues have gone away. The cost of living to income ratio is still increasing and FFG don't appear to have literally any interest whatsoever in doing anything to solve it. Meanwhile, many of their policies actively exacerbate it. SF is riding the wave simply by promising to reverse many of these policies - it's not even necessarily about actively introducing new ones, people are terrified that FFG's policies are putting us on an irreversible road to poverty by actively encouraging cost of living inflation and intentionally throwing away the state's main tools to fight it.

Nice post, but can you tell me what exactly in the SF manifesto for the election or everything they have said since would make you believe they know how to resolve the issue? I haven't seen anything that would suggest they have a clue. A lot of Huff&puff but nothing else.

tipptom

Scratchly wrote: »

O'Brien wasn't in his own country. He was in London on a public bus with a homemade explosive that he planned to leave in public to put innocent lives at risk with the aim of pressuring the British government.

Can you explain to me where I've been duped by the British PR machine and how that isn't terrorism?

O Brien would not have been in london but for British terrorism in Ireland where they should not have been,never mind treating its natives like animals.

This is recognised the world over that the British were the terrorists in any country they took their brutality to,its just unique to Ireland that there are "irishmen"who would call people who fought back against the invader and their abuser the terrorist

Someone smashes there way into my house and takes it over,abuses my family and claims it is their house then i am going to fight back by any means.
If that means i have to go to one of their houses because to let them know that this is not right then that is what i will do
If that gang has not invaded your house then fine,carry on with your comfortable life but dont call me the terrrorist because i have had enough and will fight back for my house,my family and their future and i dont sought or need your permission

Scratchly

tipptom wrote: »

O Brien would not have been in london but for British terrorism in Ireland where they should not have been,never mind treating its natives like animals.

This is recognised the world over that the British were the terrorists in any country they took their brutality to,its just unique to Ireland that there are "irishmen"who would call people who fought back against the invader and their abuser the terrorist

Someone smashes there way into my house and takes it over,abuses my family and claims it is their house then i am going to fight back by any means.
If that means i have to go to one of their houses because to let them know that this is not right then that is what i will do
If that gang has not invaded your house then fine,carry on with your comfortable life but dont call me the terrrorist because i have had enough and will fight back for my house,my family and their future and i dont sought or need your permission

Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. This was 1996 and he was born and raised in Gorey. Nobody took anything from him. Nobody smashed their way into his house.

He chose to go to London, make explosives and was attempting to plant them in public to put innocent lives at risk. He was a terrorist.

Natterjack from Kerry

Scratchly wrote: »

Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. This was 1996 and he was born and raised in Gorey. Nobody took anything from him. Nobody smashed their way into his house.

Apparently, about a 100 royal Marine commandos came across from Wales one night, and threw the whole family out of their Gorey cottage where they were sheltering with the chickens and the pig, beat up the men, burnt down the house, shot the farm animals, set fire to the hay barn, and made fun of them with nasty Paddy Irishman jokes. Left the family huddled in a wet ditch with nothing left in the world but the pyjamas they were wearing. Some of the commandos were quote rude and brutal as well, and in loud English accents, said they were doing it because the Irish deserved it. Then headed back across the Irish sea laughing their heads off.
That kind of thing changes a young impressionable man. It no wonder one would set off for London in a bus with a bomb. Who wouldnt ?

Scratchly

Scratchly wrote: »

I would say a lot of people have no idea what they're voting for, they just know what they're not voting for which is FG and FF. People obviously want a change. But the sharp increase in SF support isn't because SF candidates suddenly struck a chord with the electorate or their fantasy policies are the best way forward. They were voted in because they weren't FF or FG and SF was the only party that could realistically challenge them.

That’s what I said. I said they were the main party of the opposition.

While this stuff might not have that big of an impact given FF and FG are both in government and people are unhappy it's not going down well with a lot of people who want an alternative government. Not a bunch of RA heads celebrating idiots who were planting bombs in London.

That’s what I disagree with. Firstly you’ve characterised the SF vote as “RA heads celebrating .. bombs in London”. That contradicts your first paragraph when you said people didn’t know.

The SF support is ~38% amongst 18-25 year olds. They are voting for an opposition party and they and weren’t around at the height of the troubles. The strong anti IRA sentiment fostered by their activities is concentrated amongst the middle aged - where support is about 22%

Anyway this kind of stuff doesn’t move the needle in terms of support for SF. Pointing out their hypocrisy on housing , in favour of houses in theory but not in practice at local level is smart, Twitter outrages about SF being close the IRA isn’t. That’s already known.

(Btw I don’t even support a UI. I am looking for an alternative to FFG in the next election though.).

Gatling

tipptom wrote: »

,never mind treating its natives like animals.

Like the ra treated them any better ,the raped , murdered, burned out families out their homes too ,
They executed innocent people ,and killed more civilians than the British army ever did .

But hey nothing beat a bit of one sided propaganda

McMurphy

Gatling wrote: »

Like the ra treated them any better ,the raped , murdered, burned out families out their homes too ,
They executed innocent people ,and killed more civilians than the British army ever did .

But hey nothing beat a bit of one sided propaganda

I'd say you have deluded yourself into believing that too.

Reread your words slowly again to yourself, and then stop posting absolute scutter about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

Scratchly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Given what went on at drumcree the summer before and the fact the north teetered on civil war in months preceding this


Kind of hard to critise someone,who choose to no longer stand by and watch what was going on.....i remember peoples blood boiling at what went on in drumcree and walking out of mass at priests condemning nationlists for standing up for emselves.......


1995 and peaceful protesters were still being beat off streets by security forces,who wouldnt face down orangemen,.....

The sight of paisley and trimble leading orange march,hand in hand after 3 children burnt to death to force it through....is one of the enduring images of the troubles in mid 90s,and drove another generation to paramilitaries,and who could blame them at the time

Kinda hard to criticise someone from gorey planting bombs in London to put innocent lives at risk because he's angry over events in Northern Ireland ?

No its not hard. Because it's terrorism. The people who committed the murders and who were causing the abuses in the North should have been held to account.

But O'Brien and his cowardly scumbag pals in the RA planting bombs in England weren't soldiers, they weren't freedom fighters. They were thugs and scumbags trying to hold the lives of innocent people to randsom.

They were terrorists. You can if and but and point fingers wherever you want. Even go on some weird angry "this is my house" rant like the other poster. But it won't change the fact that O'Brien was a terrorist by every definition of the word.

Scratchly

Scratchly wrote: »

Kinda hard to criticise someone from gorey planting bombs in London to put innocent lives at risk because he's angry over events in Northern Ireland ?

No its not hard. Because it's terrorism. The people who committed the murders and who were causing the abuses in the North should have been held to account.

But O'Brien and his cowardly scumbag pals in the RA planting bombs in England weren't soldiers, they weren't freedom fighters. They were thugs and scumbags trying to hold the lives of innocent people to randsom.

They were terrorists. You can if and but and point fingers wherever you want. Even go on some weird angry "this is my house" rant like the other poster. But it won't change the fact that O'Brien was a terrorist by every definition of the word.

They were terrorists. Also nobody really gives a sh1t. Fix housing.

tipptom

Today is also the anniversary of Aiden McAnespie who was murdered by the British army in NI,shot in the back while walking to a GAA match

Aidens father was told by a British army soldier at a checkpoint that they were going to shoot him a month beforehand

There was an ongoing harrasment in that town against any Catholic young men by Unionists and British army soldiers to make them move away in an attempt to further their attempts of clearing areas of native Cathoilc people

This is just a small example of what Catholics in NI had to put up with and fear every day and you get people from down here in their cosy lives telling them what they should haveput up with and not fight back!!
This went on decades before they thought they could get away with their scorched earth policy burning people out of their homes in 69.

They were a quite race of people to put up with this for as long as they did and the British terrorists and their "Irish" apologists have a lot to answer for.

tipptom

Gatling wrote: »

Like the ra treated them any better ,the raped , murdered, burned out families out their homes too ,
They executed innocent people ,and killed more civilians than the British army ever did .

But hey nothing beat a bit of one sided propaganda

So the Catholics were not the abused in NI?
Even the British dont deny this now

Is there anything that you wont make up to excuse your support for the British terrorism in NI?

UDAWINNER

McMurphy wrote: »

Walshb gonna get awfully mad at the blueshirts now, just wait.....any minute now......


https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1363050763132407810?s=19

FG commemorating terrorists, some people on this thread are going to have a stroke:)

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

aiden mcenspeie had personally made something like 350 individial offial complaints about carry on of soldiers towards him,being one of few who went through formal (and peaceful) channels....look where it ended him


Is the killing of him terrorism?

Is there anyone on here defending the killing of Aidan McAnespie (at least get his name right if you are bringing him up) night and day? No.

Same can't be said about those killed by the PIRA with the support of SF.

Gatling

tipptom wrote: »

So the Catholics were not the abused in NI?

By British and the Ra just as bad in cases worse because it's still going on to this day .

But ,but ,but yes we know what the Brits did we also know what the Ra did and are still doing .

So what's the current excuse ?

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

aiden mcenspeie had personally made something like 350 individial offial complaints about carry on of soldiers towards him,being one of few who went through formal (and peaceful) channels....look where it ended him


Is the killing of him terrorism?

You wont find the British terrorist apologists on here getting to exercised about what happened to Aiden McAnespie and all the other Catholics who were murdered and maimed and intimidated

You wont hear them calling these murderers and terrorists scumbags,terrrorists or even just plain old racists or bigots