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O'Leary Throws Down The Gauntlet To NPHET

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Comments

  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hurrache wrote: »
    He's a specialist in the area. Colour me surprised that the media the world over regularly get specialists in to discuss areas they're experts in.

    Can't wait until they follow your logic though when we have Pat the Baker on discussing the the latest Space X launches.

    Of all the experts on to appear on TV,he struck me as most articulate and intelligent


    But if he is in line to profit from vaccines (honestly,i dunno?),his neutrality on subject matter is wideopen for questioning


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    Nope sorry. Read the stats.....when I last check it the average age of death in Ireland was 84 and that is from the CSO not some mad 5g page.

    Have young people died yes, is it a tragedy yes. Do young people die from a multitude of different health issues yes. Is dieing from Covid a significant risk, nope not for a young person (and I mean anyone under 65) . Is life risk free, no but from every piece of data I have seen, anyone in modest health under 65 (and most certainly under Mick O'Leary's 50 year old yardstick) I can't see how anyone can consider this a risk worth even thinking about let alone closing a country down for.

    So, is mortality the only metric to measure?
    Do we ignore the cases that are severe enough to need hospitalisation, entry to ICU?
    Do we ignore long recovery times? Do we ignore the ongoing symptoms that have been long documented? Are these things not to be considered?


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Russman wrote: »
    Ever wonder how the old people get the disease ?

    No, totally obvious how anyone catches a respiratory virus. We should have provided specific health advice and supports for the clearly at risk age groups and got on with life. I have been saying this since last February when the first sets of data about the very specific sections of our population who were at substantial levels of risk.

    Unfortunately though the minute we crossed the rubicon of moving from giving health advice to enforced restrictions and shut down it was always going to be hard for people to back down and change course no matter what the data.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    But if he is in line to profit from vaccines (honestly,i dunno?),his neutrality on subject matter is wideopen for questioning

    Are people honestly suggesting that he will go on TV and radio, argue for a change in health guidelines which he knows will result in more people getting infected, then return to his lab, design, test and rollout his own vaccine in super quick time, of which he currently doesn't have, and then profit to the tune of 1 million dollars because of the extra disease he encouraged?

    People are going stir crazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    stoneill wrote: »
    So, is mortality the only metric to measure?
    Do we ignore the cases that are severe enough to need hospitalisation, entry to ICU?
    Do we ignore long recovery times? Do we ignore the ongoing symptoms that have been long documented? Are these things not to be considered?

    No of course not and we are arguing here with no real data so it's pure speculation. Most viruses will leave a trail of post viral syndrome and fatigue. Many who have had a proper flu (not the cold often called a flu) will tell you it takes days and sometimes weeks to be back to normal.

    Hospitalizations are a weak metric to look at as it does not measure how sick people are. If discharged in a couple of days you probably weren't that sick. How many scared people ended up in hospital as they were feeling **** and panicked as it was Covid ?.If it had been the flu many would have spent 3 days in bed and got on with it. The mind and panic is powerful. Not blaming these people as they have been terrified to bits by the media. ICU numbers yes of course are significant but again average age of those in ICU I don't know and haven't seen any stats but I would hazard a guess it is well into the 80's.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Are people honestly suggesting that he will go on TV and radio, argue for a change in health guidelines which he knows will result in more people getting infected, then return to his lab, design, test and rollout his own vaccine in super quick time, of which he currently doesn't have, and then profit to the tune of 1 million dollars because of the extra disease he encouraged?

    People are going stir crazy.

    You have the Covid blinkers on, mate. Michael O Leary and Luke O Neill are businessmen and will go on the media to promote (directly or indirectly) their interests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's a thread rich with tinfoil capped fruitcakes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    trixi001 wrote: »
    We should look at the vested interests of everyone calling for everything to stay closed too then - anyone who remains on full pay and is WFH (and wants to remain WFH), has a vested interest in things staying this way, anyone on TWISS/PUP etc who is happy with their income for no work has a vested interest.

    Anyone who has family in pharm, mask manufacture, IT Remote solutions and lots of other industries has a vested interest.

    The government has a vested interest in getting re-elected.

    I have said all along, if we have NPHET, we should also have experts in the economy, environment, sociology etc. A Public heath emergency is not all about health, the response team should include a range of experts, and the government take recommendations from all experts, not simply take advice from health experts and ignore everyone else!




    public health is about public health, that is why it is called public health.
    the government have access to experts from multiple fields on multiple issues independantly of nphet, and realistically those experts are not in any way experts in public health and covid, hence having them as part of the response team would be unviable.
    taking their input separately to the medical experts and following the public health advice which is ultimately more important, is the best way for this to work, given it is a public health issue we are dealing with, all be it one which will cause damage outside health issues.


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    Since the first data on Covid came out (and it hasn't changed since) if has been clear that it is a significant risk to the very elderly, infirm and some with significant underlying conditions. We have failed utterly to keep Covid out of nursing homes, hospital acquired infection is rampant so we have not even begun to do our best to protect the small percentage of the population at significant risk to Covid. The health system is no closer to collapse this year than any year and if it was that big a deal why are we not tooling up extra ICU beds in huge numbers etc etc.

    And to protect a health system we sacrifice the very economy and livelihoods which fund it in the future. The long term financial constraints and debt from this saga will do real damage to the health system. Just have a look at what happened after the 2008 crash......






    the health system has come very close to being overwhelmed at least in this particular serge, the reason it hasn't come close to collapse is because we acted quickly and implemented public health measures.
    tooling up extra ICU beds in huge numbers takes a serious amount of time and then they have to be staffed and equipped, you can't simply magic it up over night, and realistically then there is the case of what happens to those beds once covid is no longer a problem, you cannot keep beds and staff which will end up disused 99% of the time.
    to protect the country and the main parts of the economy, we shut on a temporary basis, the non-essential parts of the economy which are the minor contributers, in turn focusing on keeping open and protecting the major contributers which keep the whole show on the road on a basic level.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23 Smoothrider


    The answer to that is to increase hospital capacity (as we were told would happen, but hasn't) not make it unlawful for people to leave their homes. The population cannot be blackmailed, or held hostage, long term over a basic failure to government to make provision for inevitable surges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    seamus wrote: »
    O'Leary is a gobsh1te and has been a complete disgrace since the start of this thing.

    All he cares about is shareholder returns for Ryanair. That's all he's doing. Same as Ryanair's big whinge back in April 2020 that they would be flying except that Governments won't let them. They don't give a single fvck about the safety of their passengers or crew, it's all about the money.

    O'Leary's rant today is about as insightful as every other moron on boards and facebook claiming that there's some ulterior motive to what NPHET is doing and that lockdowns are ineffective.

    He's got his headlines now, but really he's just pissed off because Ryanair are going to post a loss. He's a cock.

    100%

    Nail on the head.

    Bang on the money.

    O' Leary is the epitome of a businessman trying solely to look after his own interests, which he's entitled to do, but people should really apply some critical thinking to what he's actually saying - it is rubbish.

    But then again if you can't instantly see it for the pure self serving nonsense that it clearly is, then maybe your powers of analysis aren't too hot to begin with.

    Still, a huge cohort out there taken in by his nonsense. Well, a cohort, with an outsized presence online and on boards in particular.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭JojoLoca


    So many ppl (family, friends, work contacts)have said to me they’ll be boycotting Ryanair for life after the despicable carry on of Ryanair over the last year.

    I have the same feelings about Aer Lingus. Shame of an airline


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 Smoothrider


    You would think that we might have at least a few journalists in Ireland who might ask Holohan et al a question like that but they never do. It's quite embarrassing the lame arsed MSM we have in this country, spineless goons for the most part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    corcaigh07 wrote: »
    You have the Covid blinkers on, mate. Michael O Leary and Luke O Neill are businessmen and will go on the media to promote (directly or indirectly) their interests.

    Think you don't rally understand a personality like Luke. He is a gifted scientist and loves presenting, talking and being the expert. It totally and utterly consumes him. Classic slightly mad scientist and I mean that in the nicest way possible. He is now a go to expert on Covid, national celebrity yet he is only qualified on a very narrow purely scientific viewpoint on Covid. To him getting rid of it is a scientific challenge and a game and again I mean this in the nicest way possible. Business is a side issue for him which allows him to continue to be a relevant mad scientist !!

    Do we need people like Luke, yes they are gold dust. Should they be asked for info on very narrow scientific subjects (like for example how does a vaccine work...) yes absolutely. Should he ever be involved in public policy or real world decisions absolutely not. Is he following some agenda for his business gain, absolutely not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    O'Leary is an acquired taste but it's about time someone of his stature took a crack at NPHET, the fawning media narrative to this point has been vomit-inducing. They need to be challenged, and reminded that they are not untouchable. These restrictions are in no way sustainable economically, when you consider that half a million jobs have been chopped for the sake of protecting <0.1% of the population. Something has got to give, sooner rather than later. Michael's criticism this morning will provide consolation to many, and perhaps galvanise more to speak out against the current system which is the opposite of egalitarian. The burden isn't shared equally, if it was NPHET and the Government would take a voluntary paycut in solidarity. "We're all in this together" is total codology.

    If only there were a group higher up then Nphet whose job it is to take everything in to account and then take decisions. I wonder who that could be. They be laughing away at getting away and blaming everything on 1 group. Of course we eat it up


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    public health is about public health, that is why it is called public health.
    the government have access to experts from multiple fields on multiple issues independantly of nphet, and realistically those experts are not in any way experts in public health and covid, hence having them as part of the response team would be unviable.
    taking their input separately to the medical experts and following the public health advice which is ultimately more important, is the best way for this to work, given it is a public health issue we are dealing with, all be it one which will cause damage outside health issues.










    the health system has come very close to being overwhelmed at least in this particular serge, the reason it hasn't come close to collapse is because we acted quickly and implemented public health measures.
    tooling up extra ICU beds in huge numbers takes a serious amount of time and then they have to be staffed and equipped, you can't simply magic it up over night, and realistically then there is the case of what happens to those beds once covid is no longer a problem, you cannot keep beds and staff which will end up disused 99% of the time.
    to protect the country and the main parts of the economy, we shut on a temporary basis, the non-essential parts of the economy which are the minor contributers, in turn focusing on keeping open and protecting the major contributers which keep the whole show on the road on a basic level.

    The Irish health system has been in a state of de facto collapse for years, total mess. Every winter it has been in a state of actual collapse, the only difference this year is that it is center of attention for everyone and getting maximum publicity to continue the messaging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    I do chuckle at some of the reactions here and on twitter.

    The funniest are the "when all this is over ill never fly Ryanair again" blah blah blah.

    I mean ffs some people really do treat NPHET etc as some sort of cult and to speak out against them is akin to the worst offence known to man, so disgraceful to be never worthy of my business again :rolleyes:

    O Leary is stirring but hes right on one thing, we need some bloody optimism and thats as much on RTE etc as it is on NPHET who in fairness are just doing a job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    It's a truly difficult situation.

    It is certain that NPHET are pushing their own agenda which is Covid elimation and suppression. As health professionals that is their remit. I would be curious to see how risk averse they would be if they were enlisted with what seems n on other matters pertaining to public health. Realistically, we have to believe Holohan and Co. have the nations interest at heart. With that, how misguided can all governments around Europe be? The only possibility is that there is a conspiracy to enact changes and cement them through excessive lockdowns and restrictions. Never rule anything out but realistically we have to believe this is not the case.

    There is probably better more practical solutions but the vaccine has negated the need to make a living with covid strategy viable. I think that's why it was dropped because thankfully the vaccines offered us a light at the very end of a distant tunnel.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Restaurants opened up in Dec and we all went socialising and shopping.......... went from 200 cases/day to 7000 cases a day. You'd want to be some th1ck fnck to not realise lockdowns are unfortunately a must until we are mostly vaccinated.

    It's not just Ireland, like, where the fnck are people wanting to go, over the a premier league match where there are no supporters allowed? We are on a covid blacklist in Germany, the Germans are making it up also I suppose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    That is not really what I am saying.

    My gripe is why is such an important issue being ignored?

    Why if the German MA declared that the vaccine was not suitable for over 65's did this get buried? In the meantime we are using a vaccine that is potentially useless and then giving it to the very people it potentially might not work on?

    Square holes and circle plugs maybe? It happens too often.

    But tonight and all week Mick O'Leary will now get more coverage for spouting than the German Medical Authority?

    What you mean buried. Multiple people here replied to you about it and 1 even had details or limited trials. It was all over the news and don't forget we are talking about 1 of 3 at the moment vaccines


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Augeo wrote: »
    Restaurants opened up in Dec and we all went socialising and shopping.......... went from 200 cases/day to 7000 cases a day. You'd want to be some th1ck fnck to not realise lockdowns are unfortunately a must until we are mostly vaccinated.

    It's not just Ireland, like, where the fnck are people wanting to go, over the a premier league match where there are no supporters allowed? We are on a covid blacklist in Germany, the Germans are making it up also I suppose.


    The ****ing cheek of people to go and engage in normal activities when they have a 0.03 per cent chance of dying of a virus. Reckless imbeciles.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    No, totally obvious how anyone catches a respiratory virus. We should have provided specific health advice and supports for the clearly at risk age groups and got on with life. I have been saying this since last February when the first sets of data about the very specific sections of our population who were at substantial levels of risk.

    Unfortunately though the minute we crossed the rubicon of moving from giving health advice to enforced restrictions and shut down it was always going to be hard for people to back down and change course no matter what the data.


    if you have been saying such since last february then you will know that simply providing supports and advice to those at higher risk while getting on with life is unworkable and unviable and would not be possible to deliver.
    so why you keep looking for a strategy to be implemented that you already know would bomb hard is something that is a complete mystery.
    you cannot protect those vulnerable to covid by having ridiculously high rates of it in the community.
    The answer to that is to increase hospital capacity (as we were told would happen, but hasn't) not make it unlawful for people to leave their homes. The population cannot be blackmailed, or held hostage, long term over a basic failure to government to make provision for inevitable surges.


    once again, it requires time money equipment and staff to increase ICU capacity, it cannot be done over night.
    when a virus has a high amount of spread such that severe cases rise to a number that can overwhelm even the best health systems if uncontrolled, then i'm afraid the only way to deal with that is to implement control measures to minimise the spread, which is what we and most countries have done.
    nobody is being blackmailed or being held hostage, if you have evidence of people being blackmailed by anyone then you must report this to the gardai for further investigation.
    You would think that we might have at least a few journalists in Ireland who might ask Holohan et al a question like that but they never do. It's quite embarrassing the lame arsed MSM we have in this country, spineless goons for the most part.


    reporting facts isn't spineless, it's an obligation.
    if you want alternative facts then off to facebook and youtube with you.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    The medical advice "experts" have been wrong every step of the way and have been incompetent the whole time. You hole up and continue to listen to them. Let the rest of us get on with life.

    Come on give us the truth


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The ****ing cheek of people to go and engage in normal activities when they have a 0.03 per cent chance of dying of a virus. Reckless imbeciles.

    It's the fact they can pass it on to others is the problem ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    I wonder how long people would have been happy to live like this had vaccines not been discovered. Remember there were concerns we may never get one. The extent of people's morality was given an easy get out thanks to the spectacular speed of development.

    A more grown up, if emotionally detached society would be able to discuss numbers of deaths we could tolerate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    The answer to that is to increase hospital capacity (as we were told would happen, but hasn't) not make it unlawful for people to leave their homes. The population cannot be blackmailed, or held hostage, long term over a basic failure to government to make provision for inevitable surges.

    Its unlawful to leave your homes!!!!. When did that come in

    I agree with you they should have upgraded a whole lots during the summer/autumn months and I am right there with you on calling that out. But it didn't happen hospitals (to the point some were been treated outside) had to go into a severe mode. Something had to br done to limit that. We have had more dearh in the last 2 months then the whole 8 months at the beginning


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    if you have been saying such since last february then you will know that simply providing supports and advice to those at higher risk while getting on with life is unworkable and unviable and would not be possible to deliver.
    so why you keep looking for a strategy to be implemented that you already know would bomb hard is something that is a complete mystery.
    you cannot protect those vulnerable to covid by having ridiculously high rates of it in the community.




    once again, it requires time money equipment and staff to increase ICU capacity, it cannot be done over night.
    when a virus has a high amount of spread such that severe cases rise to a number that can overwhelm even the best health systems if uncontrolled, then i'm afraid the only way to deal with that is to implement control measures to minimise the spread, which is what we and most countries have done.
    nobody is being blackmailed or being held hostage, if you have evidence of people being blackmailed by anyone then you must report this to the gardai for further investigation.




    reporting facts isn't spineless, it's an obligation.
    if you want alternative facts then off to facebook and youtube with you.

    Of course you can isolate if you are old / vulnerable etc.

    It is absolute nonsense that everyone has to lockdown when really only a tiny percentage needed to.

    They have had a year to improve the health service, you could have built a new hospital with 500 ICU beds in 6 months if it was really an emergency. They just don't think like that.

    Reporting has been highly selective and simply to suit the NPHET and government line at all times. Anyone critical is either dismisssd as a 5g anti vax nut or totally insane. Just look back at this forum for a million examples of it. Clasaic childish discredit tactics to toe the party line......


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Not 100000 people. We aren't in the Spanish Flu or the Black Death. Not even close.

    Young healthy people in the prime of their lives are missing out on their education their jobs and careers social lives finding love traveling growing up and are facing joblessness homelessness poverty despair and suicide.

    There is likely to be another Great Depression and possibly civil strife in Ireland and across the world.

    The truth is the world has been dominated by the boomer generation since the 1960s and they are going to be all dead in a decade or more.
    They are too frightened to live in the shadow of death.

    So they are burning the world down behind them.
    you really should get out a bit more...


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    I wonder how long people would have been happy to live like this had vaccines not been discovered. Remember there were concerns we may never get one. The extent of people's morality was given an easy get out thanks to the spectacular speed of development.

    A more grown up, if emotionally detached society would be able to discuss numbers of deaths we could tolerate.

    +1 any mention of death and accepting that it happens has become close to impossible to have and has been entirely missing from this debate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    So many ppl (family, friends, work contacts)have said to me they’ll be boycotting Ryanair for life after the despicable carry on of Ryanair over the last year.

    Of course they will . :rolleyes: Until they see the exorbitant prices other airlines are charging.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    Of course you can isolate if you are old / vulnerable etc.

    It is absolute nonsense that everyone has to lockdown when really only a tiny percentage needed to.

    They have had a year to improve the health service, you could have built a new hospital with 500 ICU beds in 6 months f it was really an emergency. They just don't think like that.

    Reporting has been highly selective and simply to suit the NPHET and government line at all times. Anyone critical is either dismisssd as a 5g anti vax nut or totally insane. Just look back at this forum for a million examples of it. Clasaic childish discredit tactics to toe the party line......


    You're dead right. Look at this stage people are entrenched in their positions. Old people are revered in our societies so a mindset of telling them to stay out of the way, lock themselves up and come out when it's safe to do is frowned upon. We all have to endure the hardship as opposed to those most at risk. It makes no sense to me at all. The only retort is that given that young people may live with those vulnerable to Covid then the reality is the economy would be running at half speed anyway. This would equally be damaging but not really because we can still avail of the low interest rate to subsise them. We put less pressure on the economy and on people. The old act in their own interest and stay out of harms way.


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