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O'Leary Throws Down The Gauntlet To NPHET

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,862 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    GT89 wrote:
    So why are we vaccinating vulnerable people first then. I thought the trials concluded that the shot was 90% effective in preventing illness.

    Because the vulnerable people are more likely to die. They will save more lives giving vacancies to vulnerable groups even if the vaccine is half as effective as giving it to a young healthy person. OAPs with both doses of the vaccine will still be encouraged to cocoon or take precautions until we have herd immunity. They won't be told that they are now safe to socialise


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Fact is there are lots of people booking flights on his website tonight after this!

    Coupled with the enthusiasm from Boris about summer holidays- Ryanair will do just fine this year.

    Lets hope people will know what kinda PCP test or vaccine before they go. I doubt Ryanair will tell them until just before


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    GT89 wrote: »
    So why are we vaccinating vulnerable people first then. I thought the trials concluded that the shot was 90% effective in preventing illness.

    Herd immunity is needed to stop virus spread.
    The more virus there is to spread the more chance of a new strain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,862 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bambi wrote:
    For the comparison to be valid Tony Holohan would need to have a succesful track record of dealing with a pandemic


    He does. If his advice was followed we wouldn't be in lockdown. Its the general public that find it impossible to follow a few simple rules that don't have a good track record.

    If I had a penny for every Facebook photo of people with arms around each other shoulders taking selfie with the tag "Christmas drinks with the lads".....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    Our country is on its knees.
    Our economy is destroyed.
    We face mass jobs losses mass poverty mass homelessness and ruin.
    Do you want the whole country boarded up for good?
    For the sake of a virus with a 99.97% survival rate.

    Seems like your the one that's trying to terrify the population.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    Seweryn wrote: »
    In fairness hospitals are always full this time of year, they are no different this season.

    When is the last time we have ran out of ICU capacity, because of a virus?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    O'Leary is spot on.

    Once the over 60s have been vaccinated - ease restrictions.

    Continue to ease as more people are vaccinated.

    His words are common sense, not controversy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    And you are making it up as you go along.

    You "don't understand" about social welfare, and you are now assuming that all vulnerable people are working the types of jobs that allow them to work from home.

    You have no idea what percentage of diabetics are over 65, so you just assume that a "substantial number" of them make up that number, and waffle on about "lost freedoms".

    Now you've decided that "not all" diabetics or "not all" cancer survivors would be at risk. :rolleyes:

    Pure waffle.

    What don't I understand about social welfare ? I have a very good understanding of social welfare and how it works thank you.

    I nowhere said that all vulnerable people have jobs where they can work from home, try actually reading my posts. Also note I made it totally clear that yes there will be some vulnerable people who can't work from home who may need to stop working and it would make sense to support these people with a social welfare or PUP style payment. I also made it clear that these jobs will still exist and have to be taken by people who don't need to isolate so the number at work still stays the same. Have a think about it, the same jobs will still need doing. So for example vulnerable person in supermarket stops working and moves onto social welfare or PUP style payment, another person on social welfare or PUP style payment who doesn't need to isolate takes the job, societal cost is unchanged or do you seem to have some notion that society creates more jobs when vulnerable people are working !! Interesting idea....just not sure it makes any sense at all.

    If you believe that a substantial number of diabetics aren't over 65 fine but I don't know and I am presuming using some basic logic that a substantial number are. If you know enlighten me but if there are 200,000 diabetics in Ireland I can guarantee 200,000 of them ain't under 65. Again not sure what you are trying to say here.

    Waffle about lost freedoms - oh yes losing freedom of movement, freedom to travel, freedom to go out beyond 5km from my house is just a load of waffle, unimportant waffle. What planet do you live on ? I like many people dearly value these freedoms.

    And yes many diabetics and cancer survivors may well not consider themselves at a high risk or actually be a high risk.

    Can I just ask you for example do you think all cancer survivors are at a high risk from Covid ? If so why ? The reality is many people who have fully recovered from cancer treatment are at no more risk from any infectious disease than a 'healthy' person as they are fully recovered. I think you might be getting confused with issues around people in cancer treatment and some people on long term cancer treatment who have somewhat or substantially suppressed immune systems.

    Just dismiss it as waffle if you want but that is the sign of someone who is rapidly running out of a logical counter argument.

    I think where we are just diverging entirely is on the basic understand of personal responsibility, individual risk assessment and decisions on personal freedoms. You don't seem to value this at all. I do.

    Suspect we won't see eye to eye on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    I have a few more for you:
    • Berlin D2 Bar
    • Having a Pint outdoors
    • Exercising more than 5km from home.
    • Oireachtas Golf Society's dinner
    • Parties at RTE - Montrose
    • Leo's party at Farmleigh
    • Party at Tralee Garda station

    Communions
    Confirmations
    Funerals
    Garden Parties
    GAA


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    O'Leary is spot on.

    Once the over 60s have been vaccinated - ease restrictions.

    Continue to ease as more people are vaccinated.

    His words are common sense, not controversy.

    O'Leary is being even more cautious than that - he is only looking for restrictions to go once over 50's have been vaccinated !! :)

    And yes his words are absolute common sense but those two little words 'common sense' have long since departed the powers that be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    O'Leary is spot on.

    Once the over 60s have been vaccinated - ease restrictions.

    Continue to ease as more people are vaccinated.

    His words are common sense, not controversy.

    His words are from a CEO thinking about profits, and not based on medical advice. In a global pandemic, I'd prefer to get medial advice from someone thats actually qualified to give it.

    Allowing the virus to thrive in the under 50s age group increase the risk of a mutation that the vaccines offer no protection to, sending us back to square one. This is just a PR stunt from Michael as people are cracking up in lockdown, myself included.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Fact is there are lots of people booking flights on his website tonight after this!

    Coupled with the enthusiasm from Boris about summer holidays- Ryanair will do just fine this year.

    Might have something to do with Boris actually having nearly the entire population of the UK vaccinated by then !! They are milling along over there ATM !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    When is the last time we have ran out of ICU capacity, because of a virus?

    Things were rosy in 2016
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/one-patient-a-day-dies-as-a-result-of-icu-bed-crisis-35096204.html
    One patient a day 'dies as a result of ICU bed crisis'


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    On the austerity question, the IMF have reiterated that austerity is not the way going forward, at least for developed countries. I just can't see austerity being implemented; the youth unemployment in Italy and Spain for instance was too high before Covid, there will be an uprising I am sure of it if they enact stringent growth damaging policies. I'm just about to get stuck into the deficit myth to see what the author has to say about modern monetary theory.

    depends what you mean by austerity. Is austerity not increasing welfare rates to match inflation every year? or public or civil service pay? I mean if they dont, those on welfare are worse off and have less spending power. Is that austerity or does there have to be an actual cut to the welfare amount for it to be austerity?

    or what if there is a cut to the welfare amount and general deflation?

    there wont be an appetite for austerity, of course there bloody isnt! But personally I think its obvious we are heading into it like a runaway freight train, BECAUSE of the insane amounts being borrowed now. you are simply robbing tomorros living standards. When the public servants go looking for pay increases, or welfare hikes or tax cuts, there is going to be nothing. The boom that ended with covid, in the PRE ELECTION YEAR, there was NOTHING! DURING A BOOM! With the worlds most populist government!

    Its the stuff of COMEDY for years to come! best case scenario, no budgets need to be cut and taxes, welfare, pay stay pretty much as are. And personally as I now see it, the chances of that are probably laughably slim, its likely a bordering on delusional chance of happening...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Meh, just free advertising for Cryin air.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    His words are from a CEO thinking about profits, and not based on medical advice. In a global pandemic, I'd prefer to get medial advice from someone thats actually qualified to give it.

    Allowing the virus to thrive in the under 50s age group increase the risk of a mutation that the vaccines offer no protection to, sending us back to square one. This is just a PR stunt from Michael as people are cracking up in lockdown, myself included.

    Ah the old mutant virus trick....you do realise this virus ain't going to vanish even after vaccinations, it will just reduce in number, it's endemic now and just like the influenza virus and the other endemic corona viruses will be around for good. It's distribution and low lethality make this a given now. It could mutate anytime just like we see the flu doing all the time.

    Should we just lockdown forever to be sure to be sure ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    Ah the old mutant virus trick....you do realise this virus ain't going to vanish even after vaccinations, it will just reduce in number, it's endemic now and just like the influenza virus and the other endemic corona viruses will be around for good. It's distribution and low lethality make this a given now. It could mutate anytime just like we see the flu doing all the time.

    Should we just lockdown forever to be sure to be sure ?

    lockdown and is there anything to be said for another mass and prayer? that was the governments covid strategy in 2020! get the rosary beads out, spend like no tomorrow and take a ridiculous gamble, that the worlds quickest every vaccine, by a mile would be produced!


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    lockdown and is there anything to be said for another mass and prayer? that was the governments covid strategy in 2020! get the rosary beads out, spend like no tomorrow and take a ridiculous gamble, that the worlds quickest every vaccine, by a mile would be produced!

    I am with you no harm to have another mass !! Belt and braces sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    Saw the thread title: "O'Leary Throws Down The Gauntlet To NPHET". I knew I shouldn't open it that it was going to be full of cranks saying "Fair play to O'Leary. Finally someone saying it as it is. If only O'Leary was running the health service [the extra deaths he'd cause would save us millions]"

    And yet here I am, in the thread, still irritated that the obvious thing I knew would happen has happened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Saw the thread title: "O'Leary Throws Down The Gauntlet To NPHET". I knew I shouldn't open it that it was going to be full of cranks saying "Fair play to O'Leary. Finally someone saying it as it is. If only O'Leary was running the health service [the extra deaths he'd cause would save us millions]"

    And yet here I am, in the thread, still irritated that the obvious thing I knew would happen has happened.

    Well why don't you run along, ignore us and watch some Tony Holohan re runs :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭twin_beacon


    ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »
    Ah the old mutant virus trick....you do realise this virus ain't going to vanish even after vaccinations, it will just reduce in number, it's endemic now and just like the influenza virus and the other endemic corona viruses will be around for good. It's distribution and low lethality make this a given now. It could mutate anytime just like we see the flu doing all the time.

    Should we just lockdown forever to be sure to be sure ?

    Your post really shows your lack of understanding of this situation. If a virus can't be transmitted, it can't spread and mutate. We need lockdowns until we have enough of the population vaccinated to stop the transmission. This pandemic is not going to end until the majority of the world is vaccinated, which won't be 2021


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    HSE, welfare, pensions, social housing, national debt are all runaway snow balls. What the hell is going to pay for them? wishful thinking? answers on the back of a postcard please!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your post really shows your lack of understanding of this situation. If a virus can't be transmitted, it can't spread and mutate. We need lockdowns until we have enough of the population vaccinated to stop the transmission. This pandemic is not going to end until the majority of the world is vaccinated, which won't be 2021

    Hang on a minute.. your understanding of the situation is based in a worldwide experiment that we're currently living through.. the results of which are questionable.. this has never been done before.. previously we only ever quarantined the sick..

    So ease up on sneering at people who object to country wide house arrest..


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    CQD wrote: »
    Hang on a minute.. your understanding of the situation is based in a worldwide experiment that we're currently living through.. the results of which questionable.. this has never been done before.. previously we only ever quarantined the sick..

    So ease up on sneering at people who object to country wide house arrest..

    The results are fairly clear, you can lockdown all you like, when you open up you're going back to square one

    The exception seems to be island nations with the balls to seal themselves off but lets ignore that fact on this island :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Bambi wrote: »
    The results are fairly clear, you can lockdown all you like, when you open up you're going back to square one

    The exception seems to be island nations with the balls to seal themselves off but lets ignore that fact on this island :D

    That is a fairly spurious assumption

    We've had 3 severe lockdowns, we are still in the 3rd.

    Of the other two, we got one surge in cases, the other one we didn't get so much as a bump when we open up.

    So that isn't exactly tallying with what you said!

    The continent you are on, the climate of that continent, the time of year, the age profile, general health status of the population are far greater indictors of what policies you can push and when.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,753 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Michael O'Leary couldn't have asked for a better exposure today, he is being mentioned all day in the media and still being mentioned now in the DOH presser, you can't buy that type of exposure.

    he hasn’t come out of covid looking all that good at all.

    I’m certainly one person who won’t be giving him and them business unless I absolutely have little or actually no choice in the matter...

    my cousin was booking pretty much exclusively with them for his company all be it through a corporate travel agent but he’s been so turned off by them and O’Leary that he’s instructing his staff and the agent to book their competition... an add on to one or two issues though...


  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Your post really shows your lack of understanding of this situation. If a virus can't be transmitted, it can't spread and mutate. We need lockdowns until we have enough of the population vaccinated to stop the transmission. This pandemic is not going to end until the majority of the world is vaccinated, which won't be 2021

    Oh dear, another naive zero covid advocate.

    The only way this virus could be eradicated is to prevent any and all human contact across the entire planet for at least 14 days and that means every single person would have to self isolate entirely.

    This is now an endemic virus and juat like the other endemic corona viruses in our population and the influenza viruses it is now so embedded in our population it ain't going anywhere. In time we will learn to live with it and vaccination will reduce deaths amongst the vulnerable to a lower level.

    Suggest you go and look up 'human corona viruses' and do a bit of reading and then have a read about the influenza viruses and it's ability to keep a healthy presence in humans. If we had isolated it early on in China and closed the Chinese borders we could have prevented spread from China but it is unlikely that we could have maintained this forever. More lethal viruses can burn themselves out because they kill too many hosts, try looking at SARS CoV 1 , it had a much higher mortality rate so it could simply burn itself out as it's hosts got too sick and it could not spread widely enough. SARS COV 2 due to it's very low lethality spreads quickly and easily and is so widely distributed now across the planet it is extremely unlikely to ever disappear totally.

    I don't blame you for your ignorance we have been peddled a strange mix of pseudo science and fear from the mainstream media and the Zero Covid brigade who have little or no understanding of basic viral behaviour when it becomes endemic.

    For what it is worth this virus is constantly mutating and it will.continue this process even after most of the world has been vaccinated. Vaccination is just hopefully reducing mortality in the old and vulnerable.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,981 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:


    This thread has gone so far off topic it's beyond salvaging. Pretty much all of these points can be discussed in the dedicated megathreads.

    Closed


This discussion has been closed.
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