The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

FullyComp wrote: »

I love this logic, if I knowingly do something bad it's the government's fault for not stopping me?

Does that make Omagh or Jerry McCabe the Provos fault so as they didn't regulate the dissidents?

???

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yeah, they are caught in a bind all right.

They have been whinging and crying for so long about an Irish Languages Act that they will look weak and craven if they don't collapse the Assembly over the failure to enact it. On the other hand, they are not stupid, and they realise that the vast majority of the population will blame them for collapsing the Assembly if they do so, and their vote will suffer again, so they think that running to Daddy in Westminister will solve it and that they won't look weak and craven.

It will be interesting to see how many posters on here fail to see through this latest pathetic diversion from SF.

QED, I suppose.

FrancieBrady wrote:

The usual crew queuing up to make it SF's fault for looking for something agreed in 2002 to be implemented.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117421844&postcount=6737

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP were asked and have said that it won't be implemented in this session. The DUP are attempting to do what they did on every other right AGREED in ancillary agreements to the GFA.

Would you be sitting in your comfy seat cheerleading them if they were still holding out on rights for LGBT and women's rights? They 'fought' their corner on those rights and faced illegal and improper use of Petitions Of Concern. But, no, all SF's fault. Typical stuff from you guys.

You are cheerleading DUP intransigence here BTW. As well as adopting a familiar FG (if I may single out a particular political stance) arrogance in dictating to people what is important to them. I watched this all the way through the Troubles and after. Nothing new in the arrogance...'lie down and take it and wait for Unionists and the British to be democrats'. :rolleyes:

An Irish Language Act is what's important? And it's arrogance to point out it is unimportant when people are dying in the middle of a pandemic? Take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

If there was a famine in Northern Ireland and the Protocol was preventing food being shipped in from the rest of the UK, you would be stressing the importance of protecting the GFA and playing up a threat of a return to violence rather than saving people's lives.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

QED, I suppose.





https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117421844&postcount=6737

You were able to predict what people were going to say, and despite having all that time to formulate a response, you were unable to do so? Hardly says much for the strength of your argument.

FullyComp

Fann Linn wrote: »

Your logic, the householders knew the mica content of blocks and purchased them.

They didn't but how is it government's fault for not controlling the dodgy manufacture of blocks? Should Leo have been standing over every one that was produced?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

An Irish Language Act is what's important? And it's arrogance to point out it is unimportant when people are dying in the middle of a pandemic? Take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

If there was a famine in Northern Ireland and the Protocol was preventing food being shipped in from the rest of the UK, you would be stressing the importance of protecting the GFA and playing up a threat of a return to violence rather than saving people's lives.

And what was it in 2006...and 2012 and 2017 and etc etc etc.

Such nonsense from you again. There will always be something that allows you to vindicate the Unionist.

FrancieBrady

FullyComp wrote: »

They didn't but how is it government's fault for not controlling the dodgy manufacture of blocks? Should Leo have been standing over every one that was produced?

Government regulations were ignored. The regulators work for the government. Pretty simple stuff.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You were able to predict what people were going to say, and despite having all that time to formulate a response, you were unable to do so? Hardly says much for the strength of your argument.

I've responded blanch and while I was I predicted the usual crew would be along to make it SF's fault and vindicate, once again, Unionists denying rights.

Don't assume that I need to repeat myself to your predictable responses.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

An Irish Language Act is what's important? And it's arrogance to point out it is unimportant when people are dying in the middle of a pandemic? Take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

If there was a famine in Northern Ireland and the Protocol was preventing food being shipped in from the rest of the UK, you would be stressing the importance of protecting the GFA and playing up a threat of a return to violence rather than saving people's lives.

Surely you're better than relative privation, Blanch? Or are fallacious arguments alright as long as we get to stick it to the Shinners?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And what was it in 2006...and 2012 and 2017 and etc etc etc.

Such nonsense from you again. There will always be something that allows you to vindicate the Unionist.

Given that Sinn Fein collapse the Assembly so often and waste time when it is there, it is not surprising that there is always something more important to do than an Irish Languages Act.

Fann Linn

FullyComp wrote: »

They didn't but how is it government's fault for not controlling the dodgy manufacture of blocks? Should Leo have been standing over every one that was produced?

He stood over the ones containing pyrite!

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that Sinn Fein collapse the Assembly so often and waste time when it is there, it is not surprising that there is always something more important to do than an Irish Languages Act.

Again...as I said, there will always be something to vindicate Unionist belligerence with you.

votecounts

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that Sinn Fein collapse the Assembly so often and waste time when it is there, it is not surprising that there is always something more important to do than an Irish Languages Act.

not having go a go at yourself, but the DUP Signed up to Irish Language Legislation but refuse now to enact it. You can hardly blame SF for pulling the executive when one side fail to honour their agreements. This has been in the pipeline for years, can never understand why Unionists are scared of a Language Act

blanch152

votecounts wrote: »

not having go a go at yourself, but the DUP Signed up to Irish Language Legislation but refuse now to enact it. You can hardly blame SF for pulling the executive when one side fail to honour their agreements. This has been in the pipeline for years, can never understand why Unionists are scared of a Language Act

That isn't what I heard them say, they have said they are committed to it, just that people dying on hospital waiting lists are more urgent and important to deal with.

guy2231

blanch152 wrote: »

That isn't what I heard them say, they have said they are committed to it, just that people dying on hospital waiting lists are more urgent and important to deal with.

And how is pushing this legislation through going to stop any of that?

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

That isn't what I heard them say, they have said they are committed to it, just that people dying on hospital waiting lists are more urgent and important to deal with.

Always been people dying on hospital lists, and somehow I don't think any of the MLAs are performing open heart surgery.
Defending their excuses now?

The DUP/SF blame game must be getting tiresome for people in NI. No wonder there's so much interest in the SDLP, The Alliance Party, and (hopefully) the UUP.

Generational conflict takes generations to unravel, but you'd wish that more was done at the start of the peace process to cement the positions of the UUP and the SDLP.

SF and the DUP have none of the answers.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

The DUP/SF blame game must be getting tiresome for people in NI. No wonder there's so much interest in the SDLP, The Alliance Party, and (hopefully) the UUP.

Generational conflict takes generations to unravel, but you'd wish that more was done at the start of the peace process to cement the positions of the UUP and the SDLP.

SF and the DUP have none of the answers.

The SDLP have asked SF to collapse the executive before and the UUP have asked the DUP to do it.
You do realise this?

The unwillingness of the two guarantors to take appropriate action when a failed statelet fails again is the main issue. The ills caused by partition were never going to be cured overnight.
Don't cod yourself that the UUP and SDLP would have been any different.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't cod yourself that the UUP and SDLP would have been any different.

It's not up to me to decide that, Francois.



It's up to the young people of NI.

StupidLikeAFox

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Government regulations were ignored. The regulators work for the government. Pretty simple stuff.

That is very simple stuff. I'm in favour of homeowners getting 100% redress, but to sum it up in those terms is very simple stuff indeed

padd b1975

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

That is very simple stuff. I'm in favour of homeowners getting 100% redress, but to sum it up in those terms is very simple stuff indeed

It's like saying the taxpayer should fix my car if I'm involved in an accident whatever the circumstances because I passed a driving test.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The SDLP have asked SF to collapse the executive before and the UUP have asked the DUP to do it.
You do realise this?

The unwillingness of the two guarantors to take appropriate action when a failed statelet fails again is the main issue. The ills caused by partition were never going to be cured overnight.
Don't cod yourself that the UUP and SDLP would have been any different.

The two guarantors can agree everything, but if the belligerent main parties on either side of the executive don't then it matters not a hoot.
As usual it's a blame shifting game isn't it.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The two guarantors can agree everything, but if the belligerent main parties on either side of the executive don't then it matters not a hoot.
As usual it's a blame shifting game isn't it.

So when an agreement was made and reneged on after two years the last time the Executive collapsed and we had to wait another year before ANOTHER agreement was made, how was it the 'two' belligerent parties that were at fault?

Similarly, how is the 'two' parties fault that that agreement is STILL not implemented?

Do explain for once Bish how you are making any semblance of sense here?

FrancieBrady

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

That is very simple stuff. I'm in favour of homeowners getting 100% redress, but to sum it up in those terms is very simple stuff indeed

Even simpler: The government took liability because the government are liable. The regulator didn't do their job. I.E. They f***** up.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So when an agreement was made and reneged on after two years the last time the Executive collapsed and we had to wait another year before ANOTHER agreement was made, how was it the 'two' belligerent parties that were at fault?

Similarly, how is the 'two' parties fault that that agreement is STILL not implemented?

Do explain for once Bish how you are making any semblance of sense here?

There's no serving both sides here Francie, neither is satisfied with anything that might give any succour to the other.
They are still poles apart and will remain so.
It doesn't matter what the two govts agree or even impliment, if its seen as a concession to nationalists the unionists won't have it and vice versa.
Mostly its made up of agreements that are concessions to one side or the other.
That is something Nationalists are happy with or unionists are happy with agreed with both govts.
Not much common ground that both nationalists, unionists and both govts are in complete agreement with.
So imo its up to the two main party's in the exec to sit down and thrash these things out and move them forward.
Reaity is that both are so entrenched in their differences that its nigh on impossible to do so.
So to hide their shame on the fact that t they are so belligerent, bordering on if not actually hatred of each other, they both try to blame the two govts for their own abject failures.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

There's no serving both sides here Francie, neither is satisfied with anything that might give any succour to the other.

Nonsense from the get go Bish. SF compromised on the language act, made an agreement and the belligerents in the DUP pulled the plug on it, yet again.
Please come to the debate properly informed.

They are still poles apart and will remain so.
It doesn't matter what the two govts agree or even impliment, if its seen as a concession to nationalists the unionists won't have it and vice versa.

Rubbish again, when you look at what nationalists have done since the GFA. They block no rights, have never refused to engage, have swallowed hard and met the monarch. etc etc etc. There is no similar foot dragging.

Mostly its made up of agreements that are concessions to one side or the other.
That is something Nationalists are happy with or unionists are happy with agreed with both govts.
Not much common ground that both nationalists, unionists and both govts are in complete agreement with.

Point to one 'agreement' made in the GFA that nationalists have reneged on?

So imo its up to the two main party's in the exec to sit down and thrash these things out and move them forward.
Reaity is that both are so entrenched in their differences that its nigh on impossible to do so.
So to hide their shame on the fact that t they are so belligerent, bordering on if not actually hatred of each other, they both try to blame the two govts for their own abject failures.

The two governments sitback invariably and don't intervene until the situation is enflamed. That is not their proper role. At long last FG seem to realise this, with Leo pointing out that Unionists DO NOT have a veto anymore and that is exactly why you are talking rubbish here. The two sides are NOT the same. If they are, show how nationalists have vetoed progress on a whole range of cultural and social rights on religious and political suprematist grounds.

I reckon I will be waiting and you will pivot to something else.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The SDLP have asked SF to collapse the executive before and the UUP have asked the DUP to do it.
You do realise this?

The unwillingness of the two guarantors to take appropriate action when a failed statelet fails again is the main issue. The ills caused by partition were never going to be cured overnight.
Don't cod yourself that the UUP and SDLP would have been any different.

People who fail always have an external reason for their failure.

Northern Ireland, no more than Northern Macedonia or any other country, is not doomed to failure just by existing, it is the failure of those in leadership - DUP and SF - that cause the problems.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

People who fail always have an external reason for their failure.

Northern Ireland, no more than Northern Macedonia or any other country, is not doomed to failure just by existing, it is the failure of those in leadership - DUP and SF - that cause the problems.

Ok, let's continue to cod ourselves that a statelet requiring an international agreement that periodically allows it to function does not have an overwhelming reason for not being able to function properly - a disastrous unbalancing partition and the creation of an artificial majority.

Would you agree that Leo was right to single out one of the reasons for the continued failure - a Unionist veto, that they obviously think they still have a right to?

* A veto you have been called out on trying to recreate several times BTW. A super majority etc etc.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nonsense from the get go Bish. SF compromised on the language act, made an agreement and the belligerents in the DUP pulled the plug on it, yet again.
Please come to the debate properly informed.

Rubbish again, when you look at what nationalists have done since the GFA. They block no rights, have never refused to engage, have swallowed hard and met the monarch. etc etc etc. There is no similar foot dragging.

They collapsed the executive for three years Francie.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They collapsed the executive for three years Francie.

Not the first time it happened. And it was down for two years, SF compromised, reached an agreement and that was reneged on when the belligerents in the DUP got wind of it. Same as they reneged on Theresa May's deal on Brexit.
Result - we are still where we where in 2006 in the context of rights agreed in 2002 ffs.

But both sides are the same...jesus, the lies you must have to tell yourself.