Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

BlitzKrieg

Whats probably eating up the UK government is they probably feel a bit robbed, all of Boris's bluster about the NIP being invisible basically relied on him getting an amazing UK-EU trade deal. IF the trade deal was more extensive and way more in the UK's favour then the NIP would have been invisible as he promised, but they completely floundered the trade deal and when that flatlined it turned the NIP into a problem. He basically overpromised on one with the expectation he was going to win big in the following negotiation.

It's almost like a gambling addiction.

And considering we've seen similar gambles from him in relation to Covid, I'm kinda concerned that I'm still in the UK.

BonnieSituation

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646423#Comment_117646423

If the North ends up smelling like roses then it will prove that Brexit was a terrible idea.

It's not in the Tories interests to enable the NIP to succeed.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654287#Comment_117654287

I don't know what Johnson thinks about NI but the day to day NI news here in England seems fairly balanced imo.There are people who appear happy with the opportunities access to the EU market allows and there is the Loyalist community who appear anxious their status within the UK is being eroded.I want the UK to remain united but can see the opportunities available to NI,I'd just like to see further negotiation on goods from the UK into NI.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654933#Comment_117654933

Negotiations ended when the UK parliament ratified the deal Johnson's team had drafted with the EU. If the Loyalists threaten violence against Westminster's will then they're alienating themselves further from the Tory voter base in England which will make it easier for Johnson to actually strengthen the UK Irish Sea border, especially as the recent rise in illegal channel crossings increases awareness of NI being another backdoor into Britain.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653175#Comment_117653175

I would like to see that solution extended to goods from mainland UK into NI(only for distribution within NI)which would possibly alleviate the issues with the protocol.

schmoo2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654982#Comment_117654982

Again there are provisions for such things already - if the UK shared their data with the EU and the paperwork is filled in correctly and the produce is labelled correctly then the checks go down. Its why the EU would like to see the UK implement the existing agreements first.

But I suspect that is not what London wants...

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654933#Comment_117654933

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654982#Comment_117654982

Why? As a British citizen, what difference would it make to your life for the EU to change Johnson's oven-ready deal? What is it about GB->NI exports that has such a disruptive effect on your life that you want to see it changed now, six months after Johnson proclaimed it to be such a great victory? And why is it important for you to have six of Ireland's 32 counties kept in the "United" Kingdom, at such an enormous financial cost to GB (the equivalent, per annum, as the UK's membership of the EU)? It's your taxes that are paying to prop up NI's economy - what value are you getting for your money?

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655445#Comment_117655445

The Union is precious to me.Johnson and co are threatening its existence.

Somethings are worth more than money.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654982#Comment_117654982

As sausages seem to be a baseline for you argument then are those produced in NI not British?

I'm sure unionist pig farmers of NI will be interested in your assignation.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655659#Comment_117655659

You obviously haven't read my earlier posts regarding sausages.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655593#Comment_117655593

When you say "Johnson and co" I assume you are referring to the UK government.

Maybe you can clarify in what way they are threatening the union (at least it is a relief that you aren't blaming the EU for the UK's woes)

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655593#Comment_117655593

What's so precious about it? What's so wonderful about that corner of my country that you want to hold onto it?

---

@yagan , I too wish to understand this British sausage obsession, because tbh, the English banger is awful.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655669#Comment_117655669

Are they not central to complaint?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655873#Comment_117655873

In fairness I did become a fan of a good venison cumberland sausage when I lived in inglaterra, son muy buenos!

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655873#Comment_117655873

Isn't your country precious to you?I've said it many times,I think NI is a vibrant,beautiful place.

Nothing sinister about it,although I know we disagree(I see NI as part of my country and you consider it part of yours)

Regarding sausages,as yagan said,Cumberland sausages are decent.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655814#Comment_117655814

Brexit could have been a more organised affair,with an agreed gradual leaving over a number of years,retaining alignment with EU standards instead of the horrendous car crash Johnson has created.He has probably done more to threaten the very existence of the union than anyone or anything.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655593#Comment_117655593

Yeah, that was implied by your first two statements. But I'd like to know what is so precious about another country - Ireland, invaded by the Anglo-Normans, then occupied by the British, all told for several centuries - that you think it should be part of your country? You, the British, gave up the rest of the island 100 years ago - what's so dear to you about the part that remains?

And are you going to treat any Scottish request for self-governance in the same way?

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655909#Comment_117655909

Far from Cumberland's you were raised. I'm speaking of the big standard banger.

It'd be like moving from Ireland to Italy and putting a dollop of Italian butter on your Italian steak. 🤷

Bangers d'Inglaterra are generally woeful.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117656128#Comment_117656128

Why would you question why someone holds something dear,whether it's their country of birth or anything else?

As you say,the Anglo-Normans invaded Ireland which was effectively the British and stayed there until fairly recently in the grand scheme of things.

Interesting that you describe NI as another country which is strange if you think that internationally recognised agreements should be adhered to.Northern Ireland is British and Ireland and the rest of the world accept that.

As far as I`m aware,any proposed referendum for Scotland leaving the union is currently 50/50 at best for those wanting to leave.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657046#Comment_117657046

You are right, I did find the standard of food there subpar compared to Ireland, but thankfully Lidl and Aldi stocked a lot of Irish produce.

jamule

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657163#Comment_117657163

If NI is british why is your country not just called Britain?

Junkyard Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657163#Comment_117657163

NI is not British. It's currently under UK jurisdiction. The division of our country, Ireland, to preserve the rump-end of the Protestant ascendancy has been a disaster and continues to be.

Igotadose

Oooh, the EU is bad. This is why the UK government is mandating the flying of the EU flag now, throughout the country, as a condition of getting Covid relief funding in towns.

I mean, really. Flags everywhere through 2023? I thought they left.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-flag-covid-recovery-cash-councils-b1889502.html

Leroy42

It pointless getting into an argument of NI belonging where. It is currently, and its citizens are happy to continue, as part of the UK.

What any of us think is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the GB felt it completely acceptable to sign the NIP, and all it entails, as a price worth paying for Brexit.

What is ironic is that the unionists, those that want to he ruled by GB, are now demanding that both the democratic will of the people of the UK, along with decision of their own government, is overturned simply because they don't like it.

They have ended up supporting a regime that has used them as a bargaining chip.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657163#Comment_117657163

What did you make of England fans booing the Scottish national anthem at Wembley? It seems an extraordinary thing to happen, especially when you consider that England are top dog in the United Kingdom and by far the biggest part of it (almost as if the message to the Scots was 'you don't belong in our union').

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657393#Comment_117657393

The British were really the Brythonic Celts who lived in what is today England historically prior to the coming of the Normans. They were largely pushed into Cornwall and what is today Wales by the Angles and Saxons prior to the arrival of the Normans. As a result of that I always found it very strange they called themselves British.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657545#Comment_117657545

"Happy"? That's quare presumptuous.

I know quite a few people who would refute that.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657163#Comment_117657163

I guess the only legitimate aspiration is Unionism so?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657738#Comment_117657738

Presumably those that might defend the fans' famous hostility would simply call it "banter" en masse or fair game as part of the football's culture of aggressive rivalries. English football fans boo every anthem, wouldn't necessarily rate their agro against the Scots as particularly surprising - even if it paints a poor picture of the UK as a collection of harmonious nations. Christ England's football community can't even maintain civility towards their own players

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658086#Comment_117658086

It really showed in the 2016 euros in France where English fans were taking over bars stopping non English from entering. It's like a recreational imperialism matched only by Russian hooligans during that tournament. The mentally of an Englishman is never a foreigner abroad is pure Victorian era supremacy.

Vander Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658086#Comment_117658086

How do we all feel about Irish fans booing God Save The Queen at the Aviva in 2018 before the game with NI ?

I'm with Gary Neville on this one - anyone who follows football properly rather than supporting on TV whichever Premier League team is fashionable at the time knows that all countries get their anthems booed at some stage.

The idea that England fans are the only one doingthe booing is a joke.