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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)



  • Keep telling yourself that Rob. I'm sure the German car makers are only around the corner too.

    The US wouldn't just annoy little old Ireland if it showed support for the UK. It would annoy the EU. The UK is, despite what the tabloids say, weaker than at any time in its history.

  • Oh and that's bad for Ireland. A strong, stable neighbour and indeed partner was far better for Ireland than the unstable mess we have.

  • I think the protocol is the way forward but believe uk standards should be viewed on parity with EU standards without any conditions attached.If the UK deviates from those standards then they deserve anything they get.

  • Make your mind up murphaph,is the EU a dynamic powerhouse on the world stage or hanging on what the US say?

    As I've said,I believe the protocol(but a tweaked protocol to recognise UK standards with no conditions)is the best situation for all.If the UK uses the mechanisms built into the agreement with the UK it's nothing to do with any other countries outside the EU.

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  • The UK government convinced itself some years ago that the EU would eventually agree to mutual recognition of standards. The multiple reasons why this won't happen have been explained to them repeatedly but when you don't have a Plan B.......

  • Why? Really why?

    Just because you think UK is special?

    If this is put to a vote by our representatives and their laugh then what happens to your belief as it hits the wall of sovereignty

    I believe UK goods should be put under a microscope as I don’t trust you lot anymore, and I bet most EU businesses would want competitors products put under a microscope as it be unfair if UK business cut corners and import into Eu tariff free.

    You might not like it, but you voted your rights away. From our point of view your opinions are no different to let’s say opinions of a Russian

  • OK,can you answer these question?

    Which is more important to you as a citizen of the EU?Maintaining the integrity of the EU or the GFA?What should the EU do if the UK trigger art16 as they believe the protocol isn't working?

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  • Same question to you lister.If the UK trigger art 16 as they are entitled to do as per the agreement which is more important,the EU or the GFA?

  • Not being poisoned is more important to me than UK government threatening to restart a civil war in its own province and kill more of its own citizens (70000 already dead needlessly in last year due to totally screwing up Covid, and that’s just one example)

    it might come as a shock but no one trusts you, what is to say that we reach a new best deal ever and then 5 months later you are not happy again and round we go again

  • They are not entitled to trigger Article 16 based on their spurious argument over sausages. The article was not created for such a ridiculous low proposition. So frankly your premise of arguement i shall dismiss immediately.

  • Rob now a question for yourself:

    People of UK voted for Brexit

    Your elected parliament then voted to leave EU

    Your elected government then negotiated best deal ever (TM)

    Your government then called an election and campaigned on this deal to get elected to get Brexit done (tm)

    Your people gave a democratic mandate for second time confirming this version of brexit as desired outcome

    Your re elected representatives under the approval of the queen then signed the deal

    Now why do you think it is ok to go back on the dual mandate and trample the Will of the People? Or if you that way inclined why do you think you can ignore the Will of your monarch?

  • On what grounds are the UK currently entitled to trigger Art 16?

  • Nice try.

    It is not the actions of the EU that have placed the Good Friday Agreement at risk here, it is entirely the actions of the UK. The UK chose to Brexit. The EU didn't want the UK to leave.

    The UK thus needs to arrive at a form of Brexit that is compatible with its existing mutual obligations whilst also allowing for changes coming about because of Brexit.

    It is not up to the EU to choose one over the other, that's the UK's job in delivering a viable Brexit.

    Thankfully, the UK obligated themselves to maintaining no border on the island of Ireland whilst also ensuring the EU SM is protected by signing the NIP, a protocol they had an equal part in developing, negotiating, finalising and signing, so that question does not arise on the EU side.

    That it now wants to rip up that agreement reflects entirely on the UK, not on the EU.

    If the UK reneges on its agreement, it's entirely the UK to blame for any fallout that occurs from now on, not the EU, because it's the UK choosing to go against what it previously committed to do.

    If the UK wants to do that then it can do so it at its peril. The world is watching. Because their honour and trustworthiness is fast eroding to nothing:

  • The sausage war is a stupid name created by tabloids and is only the tip of the problem.If the UK believes that the protocol isn't working as envisaged and trigger the inbuilt mechanism within the agreement what do you think the EU should do about it?

  • As far as I'm aware,Frost said its not the time to trigger anything but if they believe the protocol isn't working then they may well do so as is their right.

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  • That will be the UK's choice. Not Ireland or the EU's. The EU has repeatedly negotiated deals with the UK that preserve the Good Friday Agreement. The UK has repeatedly decided they don't like these deals after the fact. There is no choice between the GFA and the EU. It is simply the UK making the choice.

  • He doesn't matter what Frost said, remember he was saying this was a great deal only a few months ago.

    What are the grounds for triggering A16? And do you think, given they have admitted to not understanding the deal they signed, that they actually understand what triggering A16 actually means?

  • It has already been pointed out several times that triggering Art 16 won't fix the prob and is only designed as a temporary measure. Posturing and threatening to trigger is bluster and bullshit therefore that you seem to have bought into.

    It is the ultimate jumping up and down on the sidelines threatening to shoot yourself more designed for the homegrown misinformed than it is a credible threat, we in the EU is going to worry about.

  • Meanwhile, as I said we in the EU are just getting on with it and taking a wayward 3rd country to court.

    EU to Escalate Legal Action Against U.K. Over N. Ireland - Bloomberg

  • what is not working that is fault of the EU, you talk about belives , but what are the facts that dont work and how do you deal with them realistically, given that this is obviously not an easy situation. but the fact remains the eu did not create this issue.

  • The reason NI has so many checks relative to the volume of goods is that the shipments are smaller. Down to pallet level or smaller.

    It's the cheesemakers problem of needing the same amount of certs for one posted cheese or one truckload.

    M&S I have no sympathy for as they source so little stuff in Ireland. They got caught out / didn't prepare by setting up a distribution centre in Scotland. A centre in NI or Ireland or on the Continent would allow them to directly import non GB food products into NI. Having a centre in NI would mean less paperwork as the spitting of the loads would happen later.

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  • If the UK want to ditch the protocol then what is the alternative?

    It appears, from the complete lack of detail, that they are back to being in the SM for all the benefits but none of the obligations. That was a non runner from Day 1.

    So, if a land border is ruled out, which they are at pains to say it is, only alternative left is the original all UK backstop. Until such time as alternative technologies provide a solution.

    There really are very simple solutions to al of this, already explained many times to the UK. That they don't like those solutions is not relevant. That is the cards they have dealt themselves.

    I agree with the post above, Art 16 is the new No Deal threat.

    Post edited by Leroy42 on