Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Charlie-Bravo

sorry, I'm playing catch-up here...what's the rule change for this year? Less downforce?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Thats a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation.
Ferrari dominated.
Red Bull dominated,
Merc are currently dominating.
None of them ( excluding Current trend Merc ) continued their dominence.
Why do you think that is?

As for the best indicator?
We can only wait and watch.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can foresee what is going to happen.

As a side note, I did read a couple of articles recently that said Red Bull could be the big losers with the downforce changes.
Possible? Of course. In this sport anythnig is possible.

You think that past performance as an indicator of future performance is "a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation"? Seriously?

If i asked you where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, what would you say and why?

El_Duderino 09

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

sorry, I'm playing catch-up here...what's the rule change for this year? Less downforce?

They have made a few stabs at reducing downforce by 10%. The final decision was to cut away the floor leading to the tyres as that's a big part of how the teams use the floor to suck the cars to the ground.

The change has actually meant that the teams need to redesign the airflow from front to back to compensate. So it could lead to a change in the running order. Some say Mercedes will be effected the most, others say the Red Bull will suffer because it uses such high "rake" angle on the car. It's hard to know how the change will affect the cars.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153414/what-new-for-formula-1-in-2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-JKrs0rrc

Jordan 199

Grosjean will be driving in IndyCar this year.

Man with history of big crashes joins series that races wheel to wheel at 240mph. What could go wrong?
I'm not even saying that for a joke, I honestly don't think I'd feel comfortable watching Texas or Indy with him in it.

Jordan 199

Deleted User wrote: »

Man with history of big crashes joins series that races wheel to wheel at 240mph. What could go wrong?
I'm not even saying that for a joke, I honestly don't think I'd feel comfortable watching Texas or Indy with him in it.

He won't be racing on any ovals. Article here.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You think that past performance as an indicator of future performance is "a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation"? Seriously?

If i asked you where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, what would you say and why?

Likewise.
If I asked you January 2020 where do you think McLaren will come this year and why?

Or If I told you Torro Rosso would win a race and Merc would be off the podium.
Or that Gasley ~ Sainz & Stroll would take the top 3 steps in some race. What would you have said?

Again, I say, it is very easy for a team to get it right or wrong.
Anythnig outside of Merc this year is purely speculation.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Likewise.
If I asked you January 2020 where do you think McLaren will come this year and why?

Or If I told you Torro Rosso would win a race and Merc would be off the podium.
Or that Gasley ~ Sainz & Stroll would take the top 3 steps in some race. What would you have said?

Again, I say, it is very easy for a team to get it right or wrong.
Anythnig outside of Merc this year is purely speculation.

Ok. So what’s your answer to the question: “where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, and why?”?

This is it

vectra wrote: »

Likewise.
If I asked you January 2020 where do you think McLaren will come this year and why?

Or If I told you Torro Rosso would win a race and Merc would be off the podium.
Or that Gasley ~ Sainz & Stroll would take the top 3 steps in some race. What would you have said?

Again, I say, it is very easy for a team to get it right or wrong.
Anythnig outside of Merc this year is purely speculation.

You literally contradict yourself with that last sentence.

'We can't tell what's going to happen in the future, no wait we can sometimes'

Everything is speculative, but it's speculative based on logic, reasoning, information.

Would I have guessed Gasly would win a race, no, probably not. Would I have guessed Hamilton would run away with the championship, yes.

Why? Because of Gasly's and Toro Rosso's form, previous races, etc. And the exact same for Hamilton.

Can you tell me, is Russell going to win the championship with Williams this year?

No, he's not. How do we know that? Because we have enough information to logically conclude that it's not going to happen.

I honestly think you misspoke earlier and you're just doubling down now and don't want to admit it.

vectra

This is it wrote: »

You literally contradict yourself with that last sentence.

'We can't tell what's going to happen in the future, no wait we can sometimes'

Everything is speculative, but it's speculative based on logic, reasoning, information.

Would I have guessed Gasly would win a race, no, probably not. Would I have guessed Hamilton would run away with the championship, yes.

Why? Because of Gasly's and Toro Rosso's form, previous races, etc. And the exact same for Hamilton.

Can you tell me, is Russell going to win the championship with Williams this year?

No, he's not. How do we know that? Because we have enough information to logically conclude that it's not going to happen.

I honestly think you misspoke earlier and you're just doubling down now and don't want to admit it.

Sorry to rock your boat dude, but read back in my posts and you will see I specifically said EXCLUDE Merc. :rolleyes:

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. So what’s your answer to the question: “where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, and why?”?

Haven't seen any other team come near them since the Hybrid era, have you?
Based on that it would be easy to speculate they will win again this year.
But nothing is guaranteed in this sport.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Haven't seen any other team come near them since the Hybrid era, have you?
Based on that it would be easy to speculate they will win again this year.
But nothing is guaranteed in this sport.

Ah, so you’re using previous performance as an indicator of future performance. Of course you are, as are we all because it’s the best indicator we have.

You said it was “A total load of bollo*cks and utter speculation”.

Truth is that we have a fair idea of where the teams will be in the grid. Williams will most likely be towards the back, as will Haas and Alfa. Mercedes will most likely be at the front, as will red bull. Mclaren, AM, Alpine will most likely be in the battle for third. It’s all based on past performance as an indicator of future performance. The normal way.

You’ve somehow painted yourself into a corner where you have to argue that we have no idea where teams will be each year (except Mercedes, for some reason) and we have to pretend it’s all random each year.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, so you’re using previous performance as an indicator of future performance. Of course you are, as are we all because it’s the way indicator we have.

You said it was “A total load of bollo*cks and utter speculation”.

Truth is that we have a fair idea of where the teams will be in the grid. Williams will most likely be towards the back, as will Haas and Alfa. Mercedes will most likely be at the front, as will red bull. Mclaren, AM, Alpine will most likely be in the battle for third. It’s all based on past performance as an indicator of future performance. The normal way.

You’ve somehow painted yourself into a corner where you have to argue that we have no idea where teams will be each year (except Mercedes, for some reason) and we have to pretend it’s all random each year.

Did I say they would ?
NO
Did I say it is fair to SPECULATE? YES
I have not painted myself into any corner.
Everything is speculative and nothing is set in concrete until the season is over.

I have another question for you.
Why is it every season you are like a dog following a bitch in heat when you see me post anything?
:rolleyes::pac::pac::pac:

flazio

Didn't Mercedes-Benz say they'd let Grosjean take an old car of theirs out for a fun spin when he's up to it.
Not as a test to replace Hamilton or anything, just as a good will recovery aid.

This is it

vectra wrote: »

Sorry to rock your boat dude, but read back in my posts and you will see I specifically said EXCLUDE Merc. :rolleyes:

You've disproven your own point.

vectra

This is it wrote: »

You've disproven your own point.

If you say so.:P

This is it

vectra wrote: »

If you say so.:P

You said so over the course of your last few posts. As I said, you're doubling down and making pretty much no sense now.

Is past performance a guarantee of future performance. No.

Is past performance an indicator of future performance. Yes.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Did I say they would ?
NO
Did I say it is fair to SPECULATE? YES
I have not painted myself into any corner.
Everything is speculative and nothing is set in concrete until the season is over.

I have another question for you.
Why is it every season you are like a dog following a bitch in heat when you see me post anything?
:rolleyes::pac::pac::pac:

Did you mean to call yourself a bitch in your analogy?

Ah, shur, you’re great craic. And I can get you to say anything. I say left, you say right. I say past performance is the best indicator we have of future performance and you say that’s total bolloc*ks. I just like to see how far from reality you’ll stray, just to disagree with me. Today i got you to pretend past performance isn’t a good indication of future performance, that was a good one.

Cheers

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

Didn't Mercedes-Benz say they'd let Grosjean take an old car of theirs out for a fun spin when he's up to it.
Not as a test to replace Hamilton or anything, just as a good will recovery aid.

They did alright. But I think that was if Grosjean wasn’t able to race again depending on his injuries. He wanted it so he would know he wasn’t frightened by the prospect. Not sure if he will want it now he has secured a drive elsewhere.

It’ll be interesting to see if they will give him a spin. Ferrari could have given him a few laps when they had the young drivers testing last week.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1357044407338467335

A veto on his teammate, Rosberg really left his mark

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1357044407338467335

A veto on his teammate, Rosberg really left his mark

If true then it’s cowardly. He talks about how much he loves the competition, but if this is true then it’s the opposite of all that talk.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If true then it’s cowardly. He talks about how much he loves the competition, but if this is true then it’s the opposite of all that talk.

I can also imagine the performance of Russel being a rather large factor in that as well.

A lot of lead drivers can ask for vetos etc on teammates, Prost did it to Senna. I do agree with you though, this is a bit of a cowards approach to not stir the pot.

BBDBB

On balance I don’t think that the veto clause is genuine, at best it’s a negotiation tactic, ask for something you won’t get in order to get something you do really want when you later drop it.

It wouldn’t reflect well on Lewis who does pride himself on his public image

At this moment Lewis needs Mercedes more than Mercedes need Lewis. Why? Mercedes have the best car by a distance proven by Bottas comfortable 2nd place and Russell’s performance (not result) in the car in his absence. Lewis wants to be the GOAT, he’s currently stuck on sharing the number of world titles, he needs Merc to make that happen before his inevitable decline/retirement

To further stir the pot, I’m not sure he would veto young pup Russell, I reckon if it’s serious, it’s to stop the likes of Vettel, Verstappen or even Alonso

It’s going to be very revealing re who calls the shots at Mercedes when it plays out

recyclebin

Hamilton with a veto would be a bit like Ferraris veto. It may ever actually be used but a good bargaining chip to have in back pocket. It would also rule out Verstappen as a team mate, but Russell would probably be acceptable in 2022 if Hamilton already has title number 8 by then.

This is it

recyclebin wrote: »

Hamilton with a veto would be a bit like Ferraris veto. It may ever actually be used but a good bargaining chip to have in back pocket. It would also rule out Verstappen as a team mate, but Russell would probably be acceptable in 2022 if Hamilton already has title number 8 by then.

I don't think so. It would be serious competition for Hamilton and I don't think he wants that. He'll want to go out winning not fighting and possibly coming 2nd

mickdw

recyclebin wrote: »

Hamilton with a veto would be a bit like Ferraris veto. It may ever actually be used but a good bargaining chip to have in back pocket. It would also rule out Verstappen as a team mate, but Russell would probably be acceptable in 2022 if Hamilton already has title number 8 by then.

He always says all he wants is equal status.
If he is looking to control who his team mate is behind the scenes, well that is a disgrace.
No shame in wanting to control a team and have it built up around you - plenty of the greats have done that openly but claiming to happily take on anyone in equal machinery and doing different via the legal team is a sh1tty move and wouldnt surprise me.

muckwarrior

Things we can confidently say will happen this year:
- Hamilton will beat Bottas to the championship again.
- Verstappen will be the closest rival.
- Vectra will say something stupid, which El_Dudarino will immediately take him to task on, and a silly argument will ensue for several pages, much to the consternation of other posters.

This is it

muckwarrior wrote: »

Things we can confidently say will happen this year:
- Hamilton will beat Bottas to the championship again.
- Verstappen will be the closest rival.
- Vectra will say something stupid, which El_Dudarino will immediately take him to task on, and a silly argument will ensue for several pages, much to the consternation of other posters.

All I'm hoping for is a few LeClerc podiums

vectra

muckwarrior wrote: »

Things we can confidently say will happen this year:
- Hamilton will beat Bottas to the championship again.
- Verstappen will be the closest rival.
- Vectra will say something stupid, which El_Dudarino will immediately take him to task on jump on like a dog with a bitch in heat, and a silly argument will ensue for several pages, much to the consternation of other posters.

FYP

OH
And that stupid thing you are referring to was a simple question and of course El_Dude jumped on it like a rash.

BBDBB

Perhaps more significant to the Hamilton/Mercedes negotiation will the introduction of the salary cap. (next year? part way through the contract)As I understand it, Hamilton is paid already more at the moment with his current deal significantly more than the salary cap will permit Mercedes spending on BOTH drivers