Carlow school issues clothing diktat to female students

kippy

Hurrache wrote: »

You're an adult, not a kid. Big difference.

But you took up my point incorrectly. Some people are looking at kids wearing such clothing in a sexual way, regardless of the environment in which they wear it.

The school have a dress code, it wasn't being followed - that's the crux of the story.
Anything else is conjecture and nonsense.

KaneToad

Hurrache wrote: »

Disagree with what? The school did handle it poorly with its refusal to even acknowledge queries from the media, not even to say give us time, we're doing a full investigation and we'll be back to you. In doing so it allowed it to turn into this **** show.

I disagree that the school handled it badly. They are in the business of teaching, not responding to media queries. Should they now keep Terry Prone on a retainer?

benji79

I’d fall on the side of school to be honest. Probably a few awkward teenagers who won’t wear the same as everyone else. And you can sure some of them want to look well in front of the lads in their class etc. It probably was turning into a fashion show with no standard Pe uniform being worn

Hurrache

paw patrol wrote: »

quality victim blaming here.
The school clearly did nothing wrong, the media believed local busy body rumour and ran the story


and parents like quoted below should be ashamed of themselves



https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2020/11/24/anger-at-body-shaming-at-carlow-school/

Ha ha, 'victim blaming'. This is hilarious coming from yourself. Victim blaming....

Hurrache

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

The school investigated the matter, established the facts and gave an interview to the state broadcaster first thing the following day.

The media ran with a false narrative, and allowed the blackening of every male teacher in the school.

Too much of a whiff of "OK, so the story isn't true, but the school handled it badly"...
"C'mon man" as Joe would say

kippy wrote: »

The school doesn't have a PR, Legal or HR department full of professionals at their beckon call.

You don't need a PR, legal or HR department to acknowledge a query. They didn't have a PR, legal or HR department represent them this morning.

titan18

Hurrache wrote: »

You're an adult, not a kid. Big difference.

But you took up my point incorrectly. Some people are looking at kids wearing such clothing in a sexual way, regardless of the environment in which they wear it.

Cool, ageism

strandroad

Whatever the principal intention was, it was handled badly. If you want to enforce the uniform, enforce it, preferably by sending a blanket message to parents and not taking all girls into assemblies whether they wore the offending leggings or not.

And there is enough quotes from students to see that the content actually delivered in assemblies wasn't about leggings only, likely different heads put their own spin on it. You wouldn't call an assembly just to tell them "Please make sure you wear your PE uniform as defined in the rules, thank you all".
Unless you accuse all these students of lying which is quite an accusation.

mariaalice

kippy wrote: »

The school have a dress code, it wasn't being followed - that's the crux of the story.
Anything else is conjecture and nonsense.

But why not just say school uniform must be worn at all time to both male and female student and leave it at that?.

Hurrache

kippy wrote: »

The school have a dress code, it wasn't being followed - that's the crux of the story.
Anything else is conjecture and nonsense.

Again, missing the point. Regardless of school dress codes, or be they worn in or out of school, some people evidently view leggings on kids in a sexual way.

wirelessdude01

Hurrache wrote: »

You don't need a PR, legal or HR department to acknowledge a query. They didn't have a PR, legal or HR department represent them this morning.

You can be pretty sure though that they have been advised as to what to say and how to say and/or phrase it correctly.

anewme

Hurrache wrote: »

Dig up. Your argument started because you felt young kids wore clothes that you believe to be too revealing, it wasn't on the basis that a dress code is a dress code.

Very concerning posts about children, also noted on another thread.

Hurrache

KaneToad wrote: »

Should they now keep Terry Prone on a retainer?

Maybe if they want to deny a bullying claim....

Hurrache

titan18 wrote: »

Cool, ageism

Soft minds this morning. It's ageism to distinguish between kids and adults in a sexual manner?

The J Stands for Jay

"‘This is appalling, majority of students are 12-18 years old'...said the anonymous writer of the online petition."

Some clever deduction in there. Are they sure there aren't any 47 year old students down the back?

Topgear on Dave

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You can be pretty sure though that they have been advised as to what to say and how to say and/or phrase it correctly.

+1 If I was management there I'd be getting proper legal and PR advice and speaking to the parents association to make sure they were with me.

Say nothing till they were ready lest the situation be made worse.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

There is no defamation case against the media. The story reported claims made by other parties.

Defamation:

It has to be false
It has to communicated
Has to damage you're reputation

Every male teacher in that school has had their reputation damaged, by false media reports , at a minimum they should be running retraction and clarifications.

wirelessdude01

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

+1 If I was management there I'd be getting proper legal and PR advice and speaking to the parents association to make sure they were with me.

Say nothing till they were ready lest the situation be made worse.

As any sensible organisation would.

meeeeh

As someone who didn't go to Irish schools or ever wore a uniform I find it laughable. 20 or 30 years ago we wore leggings at PE and nobody ever commented on that. We also did swimming in high school and nobody ever commented on our swimming gear. In fact the only condition was slippers or indoor shoes in schools and outdoor shoes outside.

I find school's attitude absolutely disgusting. And I commented before I think it's remains of attitude where kids and women were blamed for sexual abuse that happened to them. I really believe there would be absolute outrage if something like that would be said to girls in schools in most sane European countries.

titan18

Hurrache wrote: »

Soft minds this morning. It's ageism to distinguish between kids and adults in a sexual manner?

The sexual manner doesn't come into it at all. Clothes can be distracting without it being sexual. Some might see it as sexual even if you're only wearing it for comfort but that doesn't change whether it's distracting or not. Clothes are marketed for different settings for a reason. If I go dressed in a Batman costume to work, it might not be sexual but it'd sure be damn distracting

Hurrache

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Defamation:

It has to be false
It has to communicated
Has to damage you're reputation

Every male teacher in that school has had their reputation damaged, by false media reports , at a minimum they should be running retraction and clarifications.

When a media outlet reports on a story, say a defamation story, and they report what the party involved claimed, they won't suddenly become party to the case because they repeated what the defendant said.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

You don't need a PR, legal or HR department to acknowledge a query. They didn't have a PR, legal or HR department represent them this morning.

They obviously liked up their ducks in a row yesterday evening, i assume following some Dept/Union advice.
24hts hadnt even passed before they were able to kill the story.

kippy

Hurrache wrote: »

You don't need a PR, legal or HR department to acknowledge a query. They didn't have a PR, legal or HR department represent them this morning.

You've obviously no idea of how these things work.

The principal is a one person job, he has to ack as all of the above and he is generally the person the responsibility ultimately rests with - perhaps you can see from his interivew this morning that he was too busy acting as all of the above (as well as being a principal) looking after his staff and students to even acknowledge the query.
The fault lies squarely on the media here. To suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

When a media outlet reports on a story, say a defamation story, and they report what the party involved claimed, they won't suddenly become party to the case because they repeated what the defendant said.

They would/do...

If they reported something that satisfied the tort of defamation.

Remember when we used to have journalistic standards, to prevent things like that happening.
Every allegation would have to be verified.

Snotty

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Maybe the Principal wanted to get the truth of the matter, and double check what was or wasn't said, before he replied to the media.

Exactly, it was many different assemblies and he had to speak to each head to see what they had said, when the story broke it could have been 100% true for all the school knew, no one person was at all of assemblies and the last thing the school would want is to find out a few quick answers, make a statement and then find out something else was said.

Hurrache

kippy wrote: »

You've obviously no idea of how these things work.

The principal is a one person job, he has to ack as all of the above and he is generally the person the responsibility ultimately rests with - perhaps you can see from his interivew this morning that he was too busy acting as all of the above (as well as being a principal) looking after his staff and students to even acknowledge the query.
The fault lies squarely on the media here. To suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

All it took was one single statement saying we're looking into it, and that's it. Then do whatever they need to do in the background. Stonewalling is never a good look.

kippy

meeeeh wrote: »

As someone who didn't go to Irish schools or ever wore a uniform I find it laughable. 20 or 30 years ago we wore leggings at PE and nobody ever commented on that. We also did swimming in high school and nobody ever commented on our swimming gear. In fact the only condition was slippers or indoor shoes in schools and outdoor shoes outside.

I find school's attitude absolutely disgusting. And I commented before I think it's remains of attitude where kids and women were blamed for sexual abuse that happened to them. I really believe there would be absolute outrage if something like that would be said to girls in schools in most sane European countries.

So you believe that kids should wear what they want, when they want?

strandroad

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Defamation:

It has to be false
It has to communicated
Has to damage you're reputation

Every male teacher in that school has had their reputation damaged, by false media reports , at a minimum they should be running retraction and clarifications.

If even one of the heads delivering these assemblies did a solo run riffing on the reasons it wouldn't be false reporting though.
It's a mad idea to call an assembly just to say stick to the uniform, people tend to fill the void with rubbish.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

All it took was one single statement saying we're looking into it, and that's it. Then do whatever they need to do in the background. Stonewalling is never a good look.

You haven't even acknowledged (maybe you have, had a very quick review of your posts) the story is false , yet here you are beating a drum the school handled it badly.

Better? Possibly
Badly? Certainly not.

Topgear on Dave

titan18 wrote: »

The sexual manner doesn't come into it at all. Clothes can be distracting without it being sexual.

This has reminded me of visiting an army barracks somewhere about 15 years ago.

They had new recruits lined up in their blue tracksuits. The tracksuit bottoms appears to have been issued about 1 size too small for everyone.:pac:

It gave us a good laugh, but I seem to remember they seemed to parade the bulges a bit too much for decency.:pac:

walshb

This is simple:

Societies ever eroding standards

Instead of society and parents backing the school, they want to challenge the school

The school is trying to bring in some semblance of standards and decorum here, and instead of standing with the school, there are people feigning outrage and acting as if their children should have a right to dress however they damn well like...

It's across all society in all areas....erosion of standards

Just look at how some of our elected representatives turn up at the Dail to work..

And people back this and encourage this...