Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711161#Comment_117711161

Try it out. There are enough things to be discussed without getting dragged back into the same arguments from last year.

Macy0161

I've no skin in the game for Strand Road either, but I really don't get the logic of "locals only" having a say in these projects/ consultations. I have made a number of submissions on routes I could or have taken regarding changes. That's perfectly within my rights, despite living 10+km away. Depending on where I may start (either home/ or part drive and then cycle), I would use the N11/ Deansgrange/ Rock Road/ Clonskeagh. The infrastructure (or lack of) will impact my choices, so there is no reason I shouldn't submit and be listened too regardless of my eircode.

fwiw pre-covid I was predominantly a single occupancy car commuter. Reducing space for private cars would impact me if/ when back in the office. But it would also change the time equation on comparing modes available. Car being less attractive, does and will push me towards the bike or public transport. And that is 100% right, despite me being personally discommoded.

magicbastarder

speaking of the locals having a say, i am curious about what the breakdown might have been between the locals agin it (possibly because they'd have to drive a bit further than previously, possibly because they realised they would potentially lose on street parking) versus those for it, because they're sick (literally and figuratively, maybe) of traffic sitting at a standstill outside their house for a couple of hours a day.

I believed the local councillor.

I dont know any local who is in favour of what was proposed for Avoca Avenue or who is in favour of the proposed changes in Stillorgan Park or in Deansgrange.

Most of the locals have no clue as to the plans and opposition is organised through parents whatsapp and local resident association groups.

For much of 2020 and 2021 people were urged to treat each other like pariahs and there were few opportunities to meet up, remember those you can walk with one non family member but dont sit on a bench.

its great now that we know up to two hundred people can now meet up outdoors, this will give residents a chance to organise opposition and protests etc, this will give a true flavour of the mood, much better than accepting that thousands approoved the changes in online consultations.

The councillor told me people could make multiple submissions too so you could have a well organised lobby group making hundrds of anonymous submissions.

Larbre34

I haven't time to go back over 50 odd posts to see why Carysfort Avenue is being discussed, but in my opinion it's excellent and a design I think would work across the city on many main routes.

It provides the high quality cycleway, yet it maintains two-way vehicle traffic while narrowing the lanes to calm the traffic without needing ramps or speed tables. The only discommoded category is extraneous parking. Aspects like the conflict points of bus stops and crossing points can be addressed with an increase in education and rise in critical mass - it will become the norm for all users to be more aware and to use appropriate caution.

Just like Clontarf Road, there are solutions which can be win-win-win, with the right consistency of standards, investment and planning and without resorting to adversarial, provocative and divisive strategies.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708023#Comment_117708023

What was the Twitter account that used to bang on about 'BigCycling'? I could never work out if they were box-of-frogs crazy or just a very clever parody.

magicbastarder

also, on the locals having a say, another interesting example, but not from the southside; the provision of an improved bus service for an area of tens of thousands (possibly 100k, i dunno) people might be affected by owners of these couple of dozen houses and whether the front gardens will be reduced to make way for a bus corridor.

yes, the locals should be allowed have a say, but should the needs and wants of a few dozen homeowners trump the needs and wants of thousands of people? it's the narrow section of the malahide road between fairview and the junction with griffith avenue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3659857,-6.2288165,3a,75y,0.45h,88.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfEDMKrpnaHnGRwh1DolAYw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfEDMKrpnaHnGRwh1DolAYw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D48.043186%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711326#Comment_117711326

Road Sofa Agency?

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711311#Comment_117711311

Well, the GoFundMe in Sandymount that raised €18k was full of anonymous donations. I'm sure one can claim because they feared reprisals from the well-armed cycling lobby.

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1360695601013358597

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711349#Comment_117711349

What's the tax status of money collected like this? Who does the money actually go to?

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711364#Comment_117711364

Dunno. I assume it's ok. Don't recall any effective pushback on it. Though I think you're not allowed to fund legal cases this way in Ireland. But the legal case wasn't funded by that GoFundMe.

Its not excellent Larbre if you are cycling from the village and want to continue to the housing estates at the top of Carysfort Avenue.

You have to cross at the Convent Avenue junction to get into the cycle lane and then cross back again if you want to access the estates along the route.

You cant turn right if you are coming from Newtown Ave direction as you are stuck inside the kerb of the cycling lane.

If you come out of Avondale Lawn and want to get to Proby Square you have to cross at this junction and then cross back again one minute later.

its not possible now for inexperienced cyclists to cycle with the traffic on the road due to abuse from drivers.

Furthermore the cycling lane goes nowhere once you get to Convent Road, the cars are in the centre of the road to make room for the cycle lane and once lights go green they are funnelled in on top of the cyclists going straight. Prior to this lane going in you could get in front of the cars and make them give you room.

Its also very difficult and dangerous now for residents to get out of their driveways or to reverse in.

You cant do three point turns anymore so to get to Stillorgan etc you need to go via Convent Road. If Avoca Avenue was closed to through traffic as planned then locals wouldnt have been able to use this route to get to Stillorgan Mount Merrion Avenue etc, they would have turned at Avoca Place and got to Merrion Avenue via Green road and Waltham Terrace, both narrow roads that children cycle to school on.

The traffic hasnt been calmed at all, its actually worse as the parked cars forced motorists to slow down.

tomasrojo

"The traffic hasnt been calmed at all, its actually worse as the parked cars forced motorists to slow down"

Forcing motorists to slow down is traffic calming though. At least, one aspect of it.

Weepsie

Drivers who are abusing cyclists for not being in the lane, are going to find a reason to give abuse or such anyway.

On your last point. The problem there is parked cars, not the cycle lane.

Larbre34

There are alternatives to all of those movements, if necessary, with a mere modicum of inconvenience. In my opinion, the benefits outweigh the minor irritants.

I agree that parked cars are a great natural calming phenomenon, but my own visual appraisal would be that the trade off is mostly neutral. I'm sure the Council will be gathering data on it.

As for cyclists choosing the vehicle lane, I think if good infrastructure exists, it should be mandatory to use it. But that's a culturally transitional sort of thing, it would be excessive to make it sanctionable.

Seth Brundle

As for cyclists choosing the vehicle lane, I think if good infrastructure exists, it should be mandatory to use it. But that's a culturally transitional sort of thing, it would be excessive to make it sanctionable.

This is not always possible and so can't really be legislated for. Looking at the Clontarf leg of the coastal cycle route for example, what you are saying is that If I want to travel a short distance to Castle Ave, I'd have to cross onto the other side of the road and onto the cycle path.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/7+The+Ct,+Clontarf+East,+Dublin/53.3606217,-6.2095183/@53.3610075,-6.2132734,18z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x48670faae3be517b:0x9685aad68cb25ce9!2m2!1d-6.2134104!2d53.3612645!1m0!3e0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711452#Comment_117711452

Thats exactly what people who live on Carysfort avenue and estates off it are expected to do.

They are being driven off the road they cycled on for years into a cycling lane that they never asked for.

They then are expected to get off their bikes and somehow get across a kerb to get out of the cycling lane and back across to their destination.

This cycle lane is pointless, it goes nowhere and its not possible to extend it to the village unless you CPO residents entire front gardens and leave them with nowhere to park cars. It lasts about two hundred metres and the safest way to get to Stillorgan or Dunlaoghaire is to cycle though two parks.

a huge waste of money especially when not one cent has been spent on the cycle lane from Stillorgan village to Carysfort Avenue, a much more heavily cycled route.

Larbre34

Obviously I'm not suggesting it ever be. Turning movements and transitions of all road users should be facilitated defensively by all road users. It will always be a necessity.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711452#Comment_117711452

As most people here know, it already was mandated for (minus the qualifier "good"). It was removed by Varadkar when he was in Transport. It was regarded as unfair, given how poor the infrastructure was, and how in theory it meant you had to approach some junctions the most hazardous way possible.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711505#Comment_117711505

That's not possible with many cycle lanes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711417#Comment_117711417

", I think if good infrastructure exists, it should be mandatory to use it. But that's a culturally transitional sort of thing, it would be excessive to make it sanctionable."

I look forward to getting loads of vehicles off the roads around south Dublin and confining them to the M50.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711364#Comment_117711364

I asked that before. Everyone hid when it is mentioned. It is an income for someone and therefore must be declared.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711349#Comment_117711349

well-legged you mean.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711503#Comment_117711503

How do you think networks get built? You start in the easier places and then fill in the gaps. You seem to have it in for every cycle track. I’m sure even if we had similar to the Netherlands you’d complain. There are awful roads around the country that people never asked for, should we dig them up too? To be consistent your answer should be ‘yes’?

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711718#Comment_117711718

Well, I was trying think of what hyperbole could be said about the Cycling Lobby next, and the idea that they were some sort of militia seemed the next stage.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711765#Comment_117711765

The speedsters that are killing and maiming millions of motorists each day wouldn’t necessarily be well arm-ed.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711364#Comment_117711364

Taxable AFAIK unless the entity in receipt of the monies is a registered charity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711731#Comment_117711731

If you cant fill in the gaps because peoples houses and gardens are in the way then what do you do.

Do you want to sacrifice your front garden so cyclists can look in your windows, no, didnt think so.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117712232#Comment_117712232

It’s done for roads for motor vehicles, so why not for bicycles?

However, that is not the issue and you know it. Carts fort Avenue is just one stretch of a planned network.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711575#Comment_117711575

You don't think the M50 is used for the vast majority of cross city journeys that don't involve an intermediate stop?

When it was conceived, the M50 was intended to be a City bypass for Dublin, not a city Commuter route that it also now is.

So to take your black and white logic to its conclusion, you should in fact be advocating to take all commuting off the M50 and back onto the regional roads inside the M50 ring. Be careful what you wish for, as they say.