Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Mav11 · 07-08-2021 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117719685#Comment_117719685

I think that the delays are in the opposite direction i.e. crossing carysfort from Stillorgan pk. I have sat in these myself and saw that the cause was the very short green light sequence at the junction, only allowing two or three cars through at a time. Wholly inadequate to clear the traffic.

07-08-2021 01:46PM

This is the reason locals went ballistic at the proposal to close Avoca Avenue to through way traffic.

Many locals avoid this junction completely by coming off the N11 and driving through Woodlands, down Avoca Avenue and onto Carysfort.

Closing Avoca Avnue to traffic would have meant cars would continue on down Merrion Avenue and turn up Sydney Avenue and make their way to Carysfort Avenue via Convent Road.

Traffic doesnt disappear, it finds alternative routes.

07-08-2021 02:08PM

Traffic has to move and I doubt if Avoca avenue residents wanted to live in a cul de sac.

Avoca Avenue is a very wide busy road and closing if off to through traffic would have pushed the traffic onto neighbouring narrow roads thus making them even more rat running than they already are.

It was an insane proposal and not one local councillor supported it, they got the feedback loud and clear.

magicbastarder · 07-08-2021 02:28PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-a-new-dublin-port-city-is-an-obvious-solution-for-the-housing-crisis-1.4640477

somewhat relevant.

magicbastarder · 07-08-2021 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117719913#Comment_117719913

oh, and i don't see dublin port being moved any time soon. there'd be a 'wtf was the port tunnel built for so?' reaction from many (including many in government)

magicbastarder · 07-08-2021 02:58PM

well, he makes more sense than eddie hobbs, if that's not the most outrageous act of damning with faint praise you're likely to hear today.

07-08-2021 03:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117719944#Comment_117719944

Its a wide road and the footpaths adjoining it are very wide too.

Its certainly wider than the other local roads the diverted traffic would go on, eg Green Road where a tennis club and bowling green are located and Waltham Terrace where you often have to pull in to allow oncoming cars to pass.

Its not a major road like Carysfort Avenue but its an important road for traffic if one wants to avoid being stuck in Stillorgan Park waiting to turn left onto Carysfort Avenue. It is not a bus route either so no comparison to Carysfort Avenue.

That turn onto Carysfort avenue is also very narrow now and in icy conditions many motorists would prefer to avoid it, hence come off N11 and use alternative roads like Avoca Ave.

Carysfort Avenue is too narrow for that cycle lane. The left turn into carysfort park is too far forward which means cars turninginto it are swinging too wide.

Cars exiting it have to come out too far before they have a view of traffic approaching on their right.

Once traffic returns to normal leavels with commuters and college students etc there will inevitably be more collisons on this road.

07-08-2021 07:44PM

I drive it regularly so know how close cars are passing each other. There is no room for error.

Cars are reversing in and out of driveways and oncoming cars can’t pull over to avoid them.

There is no room for cyclists to cycle on East side of the road and traffic has neither reduced in volume or speed.

It was originally planned that this cycle lane be half its size and it would be one way, as far as I remember this decision was communicated to the public. Another cycle lane was to be built on the opposite side of the road starting at Proby, this would have made a lot more sense. And then the workmen arrived to do something completely different,COVID measures, blah, blah

But as I said most of these plans aren’t about improving cycling, they are anti car and the hope is make things as difficult as possible so the little peasants will be forced to cycle.

As we have seen this week the elite will do what they like, drivers and mercs etc and free parking for public servants.

How many parking spaces are there in the Town Hall car parks for council officials and are they still renting places in Dunlaoghaire for staff while removing public parking spots and replacing them with cycling lanes.

fat bloke · 07-08-2021 10:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721160#Comment_117721160

"I drive it regularly so know how close cars are passing each other"

Whaaaa?

I thought car drivers loved close passes?! They can't seem to get enough of it with bikes anyway.

flatface · 07-08-2021 10:51PM

Narrow roads and tight turning angles reduce speed considerably. Why locals don’t want their road slower and even drivers avoiding it is beyond me.

People moaned about Stillorgan village cycle lane narrowing the road mostly as they were not able to slip inside a right turning car anymore, but the improvement is great already and I look forward to them reducing the ridiculous 4 lanes of traffic in the village, hopefully transforming the area into more of a nice public space. This will be great for locals, visitors, kids etc.

i get the want to maintain a status quo as the change is inconvenient but it’s not like the status quo is actually pleasant or functional at present. Sandymount cycle lane had plenty of hugely positive potential and some negative, we could have tried and assessed.

Sure the feared traffic increases on other roads will take how long to happen anyway if car journeys rise? and then we don’t even have a cycle route to show for it.

BabysCoffee · 08-08-2021 09:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721160#Comment_117721160

You say plans aren't about improving cycling. What would your suggestions be for improving cycling?

Also from reading your posts I can see you are a cyclist and a car driver.......as most cyclists are. Given this, why do you say these plans aren't about improving cycling, they are anti car? Who is driving (excuse the terrible pun) what you believe to be the "anti car" agenda? Presumably not the many cyclists who drive? Could it be pedestrians who want safe healthier streets in their locales? Could it be businesses who see increased sales when streets are pedestrianised? Interested to hear your thoughts on the above?

08-08-2021 09:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721286#Comment_117721286

I am not a member of a cycling lobbying group so no, wasnt up to speed on changes in the locality.

Our street of houses dont have a members association but friends whatsapp me action their residents assoc take to protect our interests.It was my own fault that I didnt know what was planned and that mistake wont be happening again.

I didnt post that residents reverse out of their driveways, they have to reverse in with cars speeding at them and no where for these cars to go around them unless into oncoming traffic. I was shown the damage to one car caused by a poor devil hitting the pillar as he tried to reverse with a car coming at him, dont forget too there are lots of pedestrians on this avenue so you are stuck in the middle of this narrowed road with traffic coming in both directions and children walking behind you.

There is no room to cycle on the East side of the road and its uphill all the way to the top. More stupidity of the lane, stops at Stillorgan Park and then those going to Newtownpark Ave and Ardagh housing estate etc have to get off the bike, cross the road, back on the bike and up a steep hill.

Pointless discussing this with you, you have no interest in others real life experience, each road is different due to traffic volumes etc, pointless saying this road is equally wide etc, I am tired of the horns, tired of the abuse and hope this measure is temporary snd will be reviewed as residents were promised.

Fighting Tao · 08-08-2021 09:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722681#Comment_117722681

Sounds Like that person who hit the pillar is a danger to others and shouldn’t be driving. He endangered the lives of pedestrians because of a lack of spatial awareness, and inability to drive safely. However, it’s just another little anecdote to add to your list. It sounds like everyone around you shouldn’t be driving at this stage.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 10:05AM

I didnt post that residents reverse out of their driveways, they have to reverse in with cars speeding at them and no where for these cars to go around them unless into oncoming traffic. I was shown the damage to one car caused by a poor devil hitting the pillar as he tried to reverse with a car coming at him, dont forget too there are lots of pedestrians on this avenue so you are stuck in the middle of this narrowed road with traffic coming in both directions and children walking behind you.

So whilst your troubles are driver related on your street, you're vehemently opposed to a cycle lane there just because you don't want to reduce the entitlement for drivers to use the road. FFS!

08-08-2021 11:17AM

Pointless advising you of the negative impact this lane is having on local residents, its all made up, nothing to see here.

08-08-2021 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722749#Comment_117722749

Living here for decades and the person whose car was damaged probably twice as long.

Never had issues with cars till cycling lane installed.

The cycle lane is more about removing parking than anything to do with improving cycling, its pointless as it goes nowhete.

The parking was used by low paid workers in the local shops, no free parking, thats just for the elite, eg council staff.

It was also handy for elderly people using the park, their needs are prioritised way below fit middleaged male cyclists, they are louuder.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722979#Comment_117722979

But you're after telling us how it is drivers speeding in a residential area who are pressurising other drivers who are reversing. This all at a time when kids are walking by.

So what is it that the cycle lane is doing to increase the risk to children and other pedestrians above the speeding drivers and your neighbours who have difficulties driving their cars?

08-08-2021 11:40AM

There's someone I know who used their helicopter to hover over the junction shooting clay pigeons. This was their only exercise. Now instead of there being space for a clay pigeon machine there is a cycle lane that's rarely used between midnight and 4am and when it is there are speeding male cyclist that would distract any shooter.

Rechuchote · 08-08-2021 12:03PM

When I used to drive, I reversed out of my narrow driveway, until…

I was reversing out one day (in a saloon, either a Toyota or a Ford, forget which), when I spotted a woman racing along beside the garden wall. I stamped on the brake, as she ran behind me, scooping up her tiny toddler.

I never reversed out again. I got the gate widened. As did all of my neighbours, though many of them still reverse out, the lunatics.

When I reversed in, I put the winky-winkies on early, slowed, and then reversed in. All except the most Darwinically stupid of drivers halted well back and let me reverse in. The stupid had to wait till it was safe for them to get out of the way.

Now that I cycle rather than driving, I get to watch Darwin in action all too often.

AndrewJRenko · 08-08-2021 12:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722681#Comment_117722681

You were complaining about not being able to get out of the cycle lane to turn off any of the side roads earlier on.

I had a look this morning, and there are breaks in the separator at EVERY junction, so it is possible to break out of the cycle lane whenever you need to.

No sign of any '10 minute delays' at the start of Carysfort either. OK, I know Sunday morning isn't peak time, but if this was the huge bottleneck that has been claimed, you'd expect to see some build up, even off peak.

buffalo · 08-08-2021 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721160#Comment_117721160

I don't understand - did people not have to reverse in or out of their driveways before the cycle lane went in? Or the cycle lane has 'forced' drivers to be arseholes now?

As an aside, when cycling/driving I'll always stop to let someone drive out of their driveway where possible, but I'd never stop to let them reverse out. Those people need to learn.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 01:35PM

The cycle lane is more about removing parking than anything to do with improving cycling

In your opinion! However, why should the storage of someone's personal property be placed over the ability for some to travel in a safe and sustainable manner?

https://twitter.com/IBIKEDublin/status/1424315406119055361?s=19

Sarn · 08-08-2021 01:39PM

Perhaps I should have clarified that there is, on average, a 10 minute delay around peak time at that junction, when schools aren’t on summer holiday. I drove through there yesterday afternoon and sailed through. Unfortunately, most of our trips through there occur at peak time.

Posting a picture of a wet Sunday morning, during the summer holidays, implying that bottlenecks don’t occur at this junction is not accurate. Traffic at peak, during term time can be backed up to the previous roundabout leading to even longer delays.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 01:43PM

Traffic at peak, during term time can be backed up to the previous roundabout leading to even longer delays.

That will not change while drivers continue to be pandered to and all other users e.g. kids cycling to school, are afforded no safe way to travel.

Sarn · 08-08-2021 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723450#Comment_117723450

I agree, but there needs to be balance. Public transport options going west-east across Dublin are very poor. Stillorgan Park already has segregated cycle paths, coming up to that junction, however, they are not fit for purpose. Surely there are solutions in many cases that can cater to the needs of all users, improving conditions for one group without negatively affecting another.

Thelonious Monk · 08-08-2021 02:08PM

In Spain they have things called Ciclocalles which are narrow streets 30km/h and you're not allowed overtake cyclists. Why can't they do something like that in sandymount? Would the hard pressed working class motorist stand for something like that?

AndrewJRenko · 08-08-2021 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723438#Comment_117723438

It's amazing how much of our traffic chaos is indeed down to school run traffic. We've allowed a situation to evolve over a generation from where it was routine for kids to walk or cycle to school from relatively young ages to kids being stuck in the back of an SUV because it's too dangerous to walk or cycle with all those damn SUVs around. We have more teenage girls driving themselves to school (which would be limited to those over 17 who have the resources to do their theory test, do their 12 lessons, acquire and insure a car) than cycle to school.

We really, really need to provide safe walking and cycling routes to school, like the current joined-up plan by DLR to expand the current routes.

Podge_irl · 08-08-2021 03:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723523#Comment_117723523

There hasn't been anything approaching balance in transport provision for about 50 years! These are tiny steps in the right direction

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 03:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723969#Comment_117723969

Unfortunately that in itself has fuelled the sense of entitlement amongst drivers. Obviously politicians both local and national will pander to this as much as they can so it became self-sustaining. Look at the opposition to BusConnects. Look at almost any measure that reduces the road space available to cars no matter how much benefit to society the measure would bring.

I used to be like them. I believed that as a driver who paid a large amount in motor tax each year that I had an automatic right to drive. But in reality therenis no such right and I was wrong. Drivers aren't victims, despite whet they think. They have been benefiting unfairly for years and that is gradually changing to the benefit of all.

08-08-2021 06:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723414#Comment_117723414

People could reverse and there was no difficulty, oncoming cars could drive around the reversing car as there was room. There was room for the reverser to go further across the road, straighten up and then reverse in.

Now you have half the space, you have cara coming both directions at you and could could have thirty seconds to drive across the road, straighten up, hope no one is walking behind you and then get the hell out of danger, all in all very stressful and im not surprised someone damaged their car.

Its no reflection on this persons driving ability, their lives have been made difficult and better a damaged car than being hit by oncoming traffic.

There are going to be so many accidents on this road once traffic volumes resume, such a shame as it was a perfectly safe road to cycle on and the parking that was removed was useful for the Athletics club, older people walking their dogs, families with children using the playground etc. We lost the bottle bank too, and for what, a 900 metre cycle lane running alongside a park, a cycle lane that ends at a busy junction and onto a very busy narrow local road.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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