Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

fliball123

timmyntc wrote: »

Even if himself and girlfriend spent nothing at all and didnt even eat or pay rent - they would still not be able to get a mortgage covering the building of a 4 bed detached bungalow, and pay off the mortgage in under 20 years.
Absolutely no way

Well have they gone on the housing list then?

almostover

fliball123 wrote: »

Your leaving out serious comparisons there. How many new iphones upgrades would your parents of got, how many foreign holidays would they have went on a year, what kind of car did he drive and how often did he upgrade it. The problem is this generation most people want it and want it now the generation like your dad's would of saved their holes off fore fitting the likes of sky sports and other luxuries to get a deposit up they would of started off in the hovel your talking about and they would of done one room up at a time. Is it more expensive to build now ??, yes it is, but that's pretty much the same as almost every other commodity and service in the country. I would also hazard a guess that you and your partner would be earning a hell of a lot more then he did when combined. If your looking to buy a place by yourself that hovel might not be a bad idea with the new world of working from home. if your serious about buying your going to have to show the color of your money but it is all refundable i don't understand the hesitation. They cant just run off with it and as another poster pointed out it gives you the freedom to ask the questions you want to ask.

Where to begin....I drive a 6 year old car, my girlfriend a 16 year old car. I do far more mileage than her and therefore need a newer more reliable car. We have no TV subscriptions other than €9 per month for Netflix. We pay €1100 per month in rent between us, that is a big problem. My parent paid flip all in rent back in the 80s while they were going out and while they built their house. I'd gladly move in somewhere that needs renovating, but I will not pay over the odds and end up in a house that cost a fortune and still needs money injected into it to bring it up to standard. The house my parent built back in the 80s would have been considered modern, it have cavity wall insulation and and insulated attic, the height of energy efficiency at the time. They're still living in it and it has stood the test of time structurally, they're currently modernizing it for their retirement. My partner can't work from home either and she has a very well paying job for the sector of work that she's in.

I take your point, much of it is valid but don't poke the bear today! I just think we are heading in reverse societally in this country, economically we have moved forward but property ownership is beyond many young people. I'm conscious I'm in a lucky position, many more are far worse off.

fliball123

almostover wrote: »

Where to begin....I drive a 6 year old car, my girlfriend a 16 year old car. I do far more mileage than her and therefore need a newer more reliable car. We have no TV subscriptions other than €9 per month for Netflix. We pay €1100 per month in rent between us, that is a big problem. My parent paid flip all in rent back in the 80s while they were going out and while they built their house. I'd gladly move in somewhere that needs renovating, but I will not pay over the odds and end up in a house that cost a fortune and still needs money injected into it to bring it up to standard. The house my parent built back in the 80s would have been considered modern, it have cavity wall insulation and and insulated attic, the height of energy efficiency at the time. They're still living in it and it has stood the test of time structurally, they're currently modernizing it for their retirement. My partner can't work from home either and she has a very well paying job for the sector of work that she's in.

I take your point, much of it is valid but don't poke the bear today! I just think we are heading in reverse societally in this country, economically we have moved forward but property ownership is beyond many young people. I'm conscious I'm in a lucky position, many more are far worse off.

poke poke kidding look its hard never said it wasnt maybe an idea could you not move into your parents for a couple of years and save, thats what me and the misses did for 3 years while saving for our gaff. It was hard , we lived like hermits didn't go out much the highlight was a DVD and crisps and a coke on a Saturday night.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I have conceded that the cost of building a house is higher now but you also have to concede that a job done 40 years ago would pay a lot more now than it did back then. You only have to look at the public sector as an example.

People make choices to have the latest gadgets, an upgrade in their car, sky, netflix and/or amazon to watch.

How many holidays have you been on in the last 5 years not including this one. I went on 1 holiday before I was 19 and that was to prestatyn in wales.

thinking back to my dad he didn't even drive he got the dart to work walking 20 minutes to it and then another 20 minutes to his job. We had basic channels the big 6 (rte 1,2 bbc 1,2 ITV and channel 4) , One TV do you know one family now who only own one TV?

You can say what you like the older generation looked after their pennies a lot better then this one and put up with things not been in tip top condition and ready to go.

Look I ain't saying its easy to get onto the ladder now but it wasn't back then either. Back then it was usually the man who went to work and the wife stayed at home, must of been bloody hard supporting a household with one wage coming in.

i dont think theres much point in us just not agreeing with each other and repeating ourselves

property prices in the time we are discussing- parent generation (1980s, say) through today have increased on a multiple of income.

several multiples.

how people spend their other income is simply not the factor you claim, the data is clear on this.

theres a property crisis due to lack of supply, not an economic actor point of interest because people are eating avocados and buying phones.

poker--addict

almostover wrote: »

! I just think we are heading in reverse societally in this country, economically we have moved forward but property ownership is beyond many young people. I'm conscious I'm in a lucky position, many more are far worse off.

We are obsessed with owning property. But the cost of rent drives that in my opinion, not history as many like to suggest. It is a society issue, neither rental or ownership market is working. If you want a rental market to work, where people are happy to rent for most of their lives, then the cost of rent has to be right AND you have to build homes and apartments people can raise a child in, not shoe boxes. Irish solution- build even smaller units. There isnt too many winning in the current situation, but maybe thats the point. At least the land prices remain high.

almostover

fliball123 wrote: »

Well have they gone on the housing list then?

Our combined income is far too high for that, think you're misunderstanding the point. A person's aspiration to purchase a well built home within a reasonable commute of their workplace with decent local amenities available without selling their lives in debt to financial institutions shouldn't be ridiculed. That given that both parties in the potential house purchase have post graduate qualifications and are doing well in their careers. Shouldn't that be within the aspirations of any young couple in a developed economy?

almostover

fliball123 wrote: »

poke poke kidding look its hard never said it wasnt maybe an idea could you not move into your parents for a couple of years and save, thats what me and the misses did for 3 years while saving for our gaff. It was hard , we lived like hermits didn't go out much the highlight was a DVD and crisps and a coke on a Saturday night.

Not an option for us unfortunately, GFs parent's still have two live at home adult children due to similar rent affordability issues and my parent's live in Cork county but a long way from the city, a doable commute but would involve 2-3 hours per day in the car.

That really isn't the issue, we have been able to save well over a 10% deposit with some simple enough measures. It's getting value for money in the current property market is my issue

almostover

Deleted User wrote: »

i dont think theres much point in us just not agreeing with each other and repeating ourselves

property prices in the time we are discussing- parent generation (1980s, say) through today have increased on a multiple of income.

several multiples.

how people spend their other income is simply not the factor you claim, the data is clear on this.

theres a property crisis due to lack of supply, not an economic actor point of interest because people are eating avocados and buying phones.

Also, just to add, I don't really eat avocados......

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

I have conceded that the cost of building a house is higher now but you also have to concede that a job done 40 years ago would pay a lot more now than it did back then. You only have to look at the public sector as an example.

People make choices to have the latest gadgets, an upgrade in their car, sky, netflix and/or amazon to watch.

How many holidays have you been on in the last 5 years not including this one. I went on 1 holiday before I was 19 and that was to prestatyn in wales.

thinking back to my dad he didn't even drive he got the dart to work walking 20 minutes to it and then another 20 minutes to his job. We had basic channels the big 6 (rte 1,2 bbc 1,2 ITV and channel 4) , One TV do you know one family now who only own one TV?

You can say what you like the older generation looked after their pennies a lot better then this one and put up with things not been in tip top condition and ready to go.

Look I ain't saying its easy to get onto the ladder now but it wasn't back then either. Back then it was usually the man who went to work and the wife stayed at home, must of been bloody hard supporting a household with one wage coming in.

One second. A TV back in the 1980s cost the same as an iPhone now (probably more in real terms).

Most people who bought homes back in the 1980s also got help from their parents for the deposit. They also mostly bought by their mid 20s and had three kids by the time they were 30. The wife worked part-time in many cases.

They also had a car, went to the pub and yes, many of us did go on holidays which is quite amazing as if the younger ones today had to pay the same as we did in real terms in the 1980s to go to Spain, they couldn't afford it as it was pre-Ryanair.

You add just three kids to most people working in their late 20s today and even if you remove all their rent costs, iPhones, holidays etc., most would still need to go to St. Vincent de Paul to survive.

We were way way better off in our 20s in the 1980s in real terms than most of the similar age group is today. And that was with the economy in the doldrums.

brisan

almostover wrote: »

Where to begin....I drive a 6 year old car, my girlfriend a 16 year old car. I do far more mileage than her and therefore need a newer more reliable car. We have no TV subscriptions other than €9 per month for Netflix. We pay €1100 per month in rent between us, that is a big problem. My parent paid flip all in rent back in the 80s while they were going out and while they built their house. I'd gladly move in somewhere that needs renovating, but I will not pay over the odds and end up in a house that cost a fortune and still needs money injected into it to bring it up to standard. The house my parent built back in the 80s would have been considered modern, it have cavity wall insulation and and insulated attic, the height of energy efficiency at the time. They're still living in it and it has stood the test of time structurally, they're currently modernizing it for their retirement. My partner can't work from home either and she has a very well paying job for the sector of work that she's in.

I take your point, much of it is valid but don't poke the bear today! I just think we are heading in reverse societally in this country, economically we have moved forward but property ownership is beyond many young people. I'm conscious I'm in a lucky position, many more are far worse off.

Is moving back with parents an option to save rent
My generation never considered renting and saving for a deposit .
Just was not practical
I am 60 and bought my first house in 1982

even at a quick glance

a fairly sober analysis by NERI in 2017 that a couple had to save twice as much of their after tax income by percentage to get on the ladder than an equivalent couple then (early 80s)

thats twice as much of your post-tax income.

things are worse again now since 2017

it doesn't even take into account that rent would absolutely destroy that remaining income for the couple now

nothing against you fliball, but its absolutely childsplay stuff to dismiss any argument that tries to make a point that the issue is behavioural and that young couples today should suck it up and give up their iphones

getting on the housing ladder now is to become a massive investor in an enormous asset.

it used to be about securing a home for yourself. you didnt have to commit to a quarter of your income for forty years to do it.

you cannot handwave away this stuff- its pretty insulting to those who are in the position tbh

brisan

almostover wrote: »

Not an option for us unfortunately, GFs parent's still have two live at home adult children due to similar rent affordability issues and my parent's live in Cork county but a long way from the city, a doable commute but would involve 2-3 hours per day in the car.

That really isn't the issue, we have been able to save well over a 10% deposit with some simple enough measures. It's getting value for money in the current property market is my issue

Not being smart but maybe the market should dictate what is value for money and not your ideas
If enough people see value for money in a 400k 3 bed new build semi surely that means it is value for money in the current market
I agree though that the rental and sales market of property are dysfunctional
The old days of 2 out of Garda ,Nurse ,teacher getting married and buying a house are long gone

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

i dont think theres much point in us just not agreeing with each other and repeating ourselves

property prices in the time we are discussing- parent generation (1980s, say) through today have increased on a multiple of income.

several multiples.

how people spend their other income is simply not the factor you claim, the data is clear on this.

theres a property crisis due to lack of supply, not an economic actor point of interest because people are eating avocados and buying phones.

There is also evidence of 30k FTBs of people getting mortgage approval from the start of the year to date which shows that if there is a will there is a way. I agree there is a lack of supply but I would also state that if you take the average full time salary of 49k

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/average-full-time-salary-in-republic-nearly-49-000-1.4289348#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20show%20average,increase%20of%203.7%20per%20cent).

and look for a house 3.5 times that (49k for you 49k for your partner add them together then multiply by the 3.5 add in your 10% deposit). so round it down to 350k in Dublin alone there are over 850 houses advertised for sale in Dublin alone under and up to 350k

You would need a 35k deposit 5k for stamp and solicitor. Most banks offer cash back as well at the moment.

So between you and your partner your bringing home over 6k a month after tax

https://taxcalc.ie/budget-2021/

So if you putting figures together for a mortgage and taking 1100 a month (what the other poster is paying for rent) add in another 1.9k for food, elecy, transport and other bills (which is nearly 500 a week so pretty generous) so your left with 3k .. If anyone bothered saving so no holidays, no going out, no new iphones, no car upgrade, turn off sky, netflix and amazon for the year they could have the 40k saved outlined above in a little over a year.

Now the problems with this over simplistic model is this.

People wont want to live in certain areas - bad luck you pay premium for location

Some people will not be on the average or above the average wage - Well its not my job to tell you what to do but if I was earning under the AIW I would be retraining into an area that I could earn more.

People want to live in ready to go homes - bad luck again you pay a premium for this

Some people are trying to buy by themselves - I would be looking at a 1 bed apartment about 65 1 beds up for sale under 200k , going on the average wage again.

So my point being if you want to own a home in the next 2 years you can you but you have to save and be less picky about where you want to live.

If you want to live in a desirable area in a luxury house you have to pay a premium this has always been the case and its not just in Ireland either

brisan

PropQueries wrote: »

One second. A TV back in the 1980s cost the same as an iPhone now (probably more in real terms).

Most people who bought homes back in the 1980s also got help from their parents for the deposit. They also mostly bought by their mid 20s and had three kids by the time they were 30. The wife worked part-time in many cases.

They also had a car, went to the pub and yes, many of us did go on holidays which is quite amazing as if the younger ones today had to pay the same as we did in real terms in the 1980s to go to Spain, they couldn't afford it as it was pre-Ryanair.

You add just three kids to most people working in their late 20s today and even if you remove all their rent costs, iPhones, holidays etc., most would still need to go to St. Vincent de Paul to survive.

We were way way better off in our 20s in the 1980s in real terms than most of the similar age group is today. And that was with the economy in the doldrums.[/QUOT

Cost more
NO
Yes
Yes
No
No

Idbatterim

brisan wrote: »

This Government won't fall because if they do they know they will not get in again
They have one shot at fixing the housing crisis.
However I do not think they are capable or willing to fix it because of vested interests

100% agree, they will have the rosary beads out, hoping for some miracle, but I absolutely reckon you are right on this. I do think they would prefer rip off houses and property and would lose power over it, before they would touch it. I was speaking to a mate who hates SF, I said to him, once it is sorted for working people, I dont care who does it, if it takes SF to get in, an economic collapse and that is what it takes, to get the issued addressed by government here, once and for all so be it. you are now asking, how will an economic collapse help the situation. If SF are elected on pretty much housing 100%, or cause a collapse, how could a new government, not actually address, what they (FFG) dont currently want to touch with a barge pole? their only current concern, is giving away as many free houses as possible, paid for by the taxpayer, to keep RTE off their backs

a few years back economy booming and there were none or as good as no income tax cuts, from pro worker FG, during a boom! so forgive me for thinking being robbed hundreds of thousands of extra in property expense over a lifetime, warrants a vote for the only party that MIGHT do something about it or if they dont, it will create enough of an issue, that someone will have to do something about it IMO. The issue will be too big for the money hungry scumbags to ignore...

almostover

fliball123 wrote: »

There is also evidence of 30k FTBs of people getting mortgage approval from the start of the year to date which shows that if there is a will there is a way. I agree there is a lack of supply but I would also state that if you take the average full time salary of 49k

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/average-full-time-salary-in-republic-nearly-49-000-1.4289348#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20show%20average,increase%20of%203.7%20per%20cent).

and look for a house 3.5 times that (49k for you 49k for your partner add them together then multiply by the 3.5 add in your 10% deposit). so round it down to 350k in Dublin alone there are over 850 houses advertised for sale in Dublin alone under and up to 350k

You would need a 35k deposit 5k for stamp and solicitor. Most banks offer cash back as well at the moment.

So between you and your partner your bringing home over 6k a month after tax

https://taxcalc.ie/budget-2021/

So if you putting figures together for a mortgage and taking 1100 a month (what the other poster is paying for rent) add in another 1.9k for food, elecy, transport and other bills (which is nearly 500 a week so pretty generous) so your left with 3k .. If anyone bothered saving so no holidays, no going out, no new iphones, no car upgrade, turn off sky, netflix and amazon for the year they could have the 40k saved outlined above in a little over a year.

Now the problems with this over simplistic model is this.

People wont want to live in certain areas - bad luck you pay premium for location

Some people will not be on the average or above the average wage - Well its not my job to tell you what to do but if I was earning under the AIP I would be retraining into an area that I could earn more.

People want to live in ready to go homes - bad luck again you pay a premium for this

Some people are trying to buy by themselves - I would be looking at a 1 bed apartment about 65 1 beds up for sale under 200k , going on the average wage again.

So my point being if you want to own a home in the next 2 years you can you but you have to save and be less picky about where you want to live.

If you want to live in a desirable area in a luxury house you have to pay a premium this has always been the case and its not just in Ireland either

There's isn't much point debating with you on this. I'm not pushed on a ready to go home but why would I spend circa €300k on a fixer-upper when that same figure can buy a ready made home as you call it? That's so long as you're willing to buy something from a sales brochure with little other information than you'll have your keys in 12 months. Also, the idea of the property ladder is fine, I have no issue with trading up in years to come if my financial situation allows for it. What annoys me is that this model is being pushed hard by government, not because it makes sense but because house sales = stamp duty. It does make sense btw, young couples like us should buy smaller houses for their 30s, trade up to a bigger house for their 40s and 50s and downsize for retirement. You'll pay 2% of the sale price of the house each time in stamp duty not to mind solicitor's fees, land registry fees, engineers fees etc. We're creating an unnecessary 'industry' full of estate agents and property solicitors is all.

You've really over simplified my original point about the housing market dysfunctionality with this tough luck buddy retort.

PropQueries

Here's a tip for the younger generation on here. When my generation goes to receive their pension, tell us that we need to use whatever savings we have built up to meet our pension costs for the next 30 years and that your generation isn't giving us one red cent

Apparently we're all a lot wiser than you and we all have a fully paid up pension that's not in deficit to meet all our future costs in retirement.

almostover

PropQueries wrote: »

Here's a tip for the younger generation on here. When my generation goes to receive their pension, tell us that we need to use whatever savings we have built up to meet our pension costs for the next 30 years and that your generation isn't giving us one red cent

Apparently we're all a lot wiser than you and we all have a fully paid up pension that's not in deficit to meet all our future costs in retirement.

Maybe ye can sell yere homes to us to fund the pension deficit?

lalababa

almostover wrote: »

My issue is that the competition is pushing people into making rash decisions with large sums of money. It's a big failure of policy that there is such frenzy about for property purchase and that the second hand stock offers very poor value for money.

I'll give an example, neither of my parents went to third level. My father left school at 16 even to get a trade. Both of them saved hard, just like my girlfriend and I and they were able to build a 4 bedroom detached bungalow in 1985 and pay off their mortgage in 18 years despite the interest rates being 18% on mortgages at the time. There is no way in hell that a welder and a nurse could build the same house and pay off the mortgage in the same timeframe now even with interest rates almost 10 times lower.

We're in big danger in this country of having a lost generation who wish to purchase their home but can't afford it. And I'm talking about degree qualified hard working young professionals here, if you're not lucky enough to be in that bracket then it's FUBAR for you. Also, if you're single then forget about it too as the median income is €35k which would get you a mortgage of €122k, enough to buy a derelict property or a hovel miles from your workplace where you will spend on your disposable income on fuel and your life commuting. Countless governments have made a complete balls of housing and health in this county.

What you say is true enough...but...check out the Roscommon architect who built a 3 bed for 25k on Irishvernacular.com.

thanks for the household budget fliball

a property costs, relatively speaking, several times as much as it did in the 80s

while saving for a longer mortgage that is harder to get for the fewer available properties out there on the industrial wage that now likely requires that you and your partner attend college and work your way up to during the rest of your twenties as opposed to your dad having a grade and earning it by the time he was 22 while your mum stayed home and was able to look after the kids and not pay a third salary out for that,

*while* all that,

rent is now several multiples of what it would have been for the equivalent couple as they try to get it together to commit to the forty years and take whatever location and property they can get, and thanks very much

so, again, thanks for the budget. after this discussion i think i actually *need* another holiday tbh

brisan

PropQueries wrote: »

Here's a tip for the younger generation on here. When my generation goes to receive their pension, tell us that we need to use whatever savings we have built up to meet our pension costs for the next 30 years and that your generation isn't giving us one red cent

Apparently we're all a lot wiser than you and we all have a fully paid up pension that's not in deficit to meet all our future costs in retirement.

Surely you have a good pension secured and are not depending on the state to fund your old age ??

fliball123

almostover wrote: »

There's isn't much point debating with you on this. I'm not pushed on a ready to go home but why would I spend circa €300k on a fixer-upper when that same figure can buy a ready made home as you call it? That's so long as you're willing to buy something from a sales brochure with little other information than you'll have your keys in 12 months. Also, the idea of the property ladder is fine, I have no issue with trading up in years to come if my financial situation allows for it. What annoys me is that this model is being pushed hard by government, not because it makes sense but because house sales = stamp duty. It does make sense btw, young couples like us should buy smaller houses for their 30s, trade up to a bigger house for their 40s and 50s and downsize for retirement. You'll pay 2% of the sale price of the house each time in stamp duty not to mind solicitor's fees, land registry fees, engineers fees etc. We're creating an unnecessary 'industry' full of estate agents and property solicitors is all.

You've really over simplified my original point about the housing market dysfunctionality with this tough luck buddy retort.

Well that's how it has been for me, start out small and then when your in a better financial position you trade up either in size, value and/or location. Its not tough luck I just get sick and tired of people moaning about houses being out of reach when in reality they aren't, it takes one/two solid years saving and you could be on the property ladder unless I got my figures wrong. Also come to think of it I bought of the plans as well and paid 20k less than my next door neighbor who bought when build a year later. But I get what your saying you should be able to ask about the property and if they are not coming forward with it I would walk, we asked umpteen question before buying off the plans.

the issue for govt is that they cannot and will not countenance any measure that sees house values fall

so massive govt money pours into monthly spend on rental support schemes, and more schemes roll out to entice buyers on the ladder but not under any condition will the govt meet social housing demand by building, which is step one on easing rental pressures and easing second hand property supply problems.

almostover

fliball123 wrote: »

Well that's how it has been for me, start out small and then when your in a better financial position you trade up either in size, value and/or location. Its not tough luck I just get sick and tired of people moaning about houses being out of reach when in reality they aren't, it takes one/two solid years saving and you could be on the property ladder unless I got my figures wrong. Also come to think of it I bought of the plans as well and paid 20k less than my next door neighbor who bought when build a year later. But I get what your saying you should be able to ask about the property and if they are not coming forward with it I would walk, we asked umpteen question before buying off the plans.

You made a lot of valid points too, not knocking that. Problem is that there is such a shortage right now in supply that it isn't that estate agents don't want to answer questions it's that people are panicked into act know ask questions later type decisions and the estate agents are exploiting that. Want to take a week to ask questions and have a think though a major decision, tough luck pal, all houses in your price range are now reserved.

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

Well that's how it has been for me, start out small and then when your in a better financial position you trade up either in size, value and/or location. Its not tough luck I just get sick and tired of people moaning about houses being out of reach when in reality they aren't, it takes one/two solid years saving and you could be on the property ladder unless I got my figures wrong. Also come to think of it I bought of the plans as well and paid 20k less than my next door neighbor who bought when build a year later. But I get what your saying you should be able to ask about the property and if they are not coming forward with it I would walk, we asked umpteen question before buying off the plans.

You do realise that our/my generation mostly made all our money/savings through inflation (i.e. we bought and inflation wiped out most of our debt within a few short years) and not through hard work or "wise" investments.

We did not work as hard as many of my generation pretend we did. Plus, many of us didn't fight in any wars or in the war of independence.

My generation need the younger generation to pay our retirement costs. The younger generation hold all the cards IMO if they should choose to use them.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

thanks for the household budget fliball

a property costs, relatively speaking, several times as much as it did in the 80s

while saving for a longer mortgage that is harder to get for the fewer available properties out there on the industrial wage that now likely requires that you and your partner attend college and work your way up to during the rest of your twenties as opposed to your dad having a grade and earning it by the time he was 22 while your mum stayed home and was able to look after the kids and not pay a third salary out for that,

*while* all that,

rent is now several multiples of what it would have been for the equivalent couple as they try to get it together to commit to the forty years and take whatever location and property they can get, and thanks very much

so, again, thanks for the budget. after this discussion i think i actually *need* another holiday tbh

I included rent in my analogy but I did say it was simplistic look kids are a financial black hole I seen a quote of 1/4 of a million is the average you spend on them over your life span and I have a few of them so they are expensive, but I will be battering the idea into my kids , college -> starter job -> save like feck -> small house with long commute -> 2- 5 years to build work experience -> better job -> save like feck again -> marriage -> kids -> trade up.

I know that's very simplistic and mistakes happen but that's what was hammered into me as a kid and that's what I will be doing my utmost to get mine to do.

Make sure your only going less than 5k from your home on your holidays and you will save a bundle as well for you deposit

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

You do realise that our/my generation mostly made all our money/savings through inflation (i.e. we bought and inflation wiped out most of our debt within a few short years) and not through hard work or "wise" investments.

We did not work as hard as many of my generation pretend we did. Plus, many of us didn't fight in any wars or in the war of independence.

My generation need the younger generation to pay our retirement costs. The younger generation hold all the cards IMO if they should choose to use them.

First off I made money through working nothing else I don't consider equity in my house as an investment or as a profit as I will never realize that profit as I will not be moving so my kids will benefit from that not me when I pass on. Speak for yourself on the working hard I work my billicks off for my job and I reckon those of the same vintage as me would tell you the same. So now your bringing up a war that is 100 years old?? what was house prices back then I tell ye props you do make me laugh your comedy gold. As for retirement costs the government can take what I have paid them in tax, usc and prsi and take away any state benefits and services I have gotten or used over the years and once I get paid back what I put in then no one will be sublimating my pension as I will have paid my dues and them some.

fliball123

almostover wrote: »

It's ludicrous that we have somehow linked property prices to economic output and prosperity. Property prices going up are a decent indicator that the economy is doing well and people have more wealth but it's not the be all and end all for an economy. Anyway it's all relative, we have the catch 22 situation here where property prices are going up far quicker than wages. Some people can't even begin to consider state intervention to resolve a societal problem lest their precious market be jeopardized in any way.

They have tried. I mean they upped the first time buyers grant and the builders up the price of a new house. How do you fix it? I mean if you took all the meddling away including the bank restrictions houses could of gone up a hell of a lot more, they might have came down. There are too many lefties looking for the houses for free for the market to left alone.

Graham

Mod Note

some posts moved from the Property Market 2020 thread.

brisan

fliball123 wrote: »

They have tried. I mean they upped the first time buyers grant and the builders up the price of a new house. How do you fix it? I mean if you took all the meddling away including the bank restrictions houses could of gone up a hell of a lot more, they might have came down. There are too many lefties looking for the houses for free for the market to left alone.

There was always people looking for houses for free
That's why Ballyfermot, Finglas Cabra ,Ballymun was built
Trouble is now the Government will not build them as it would upset the big developers
Money is there ,land is there ,the will to build is not