Beggars sitting outside shops

riclad

Theres no need for anyone to beg ,they get welfare payments.
why would i give someone money to buy drugs or drink .
the gaurds have serious crimes to deal with,drug dealers, criminal gangs ,
if people are giving money to beggars ,thats their loss.
99 of beggars are young people ,you sit outside a shop with a paper cup, what organisation is required for this .
they sit outside any shop during the day .
i see very few roma women begging now .

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote:

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

riclad wrote:

Theres no need for anyone to beg ,they get welfare payments. why would i give someone money to buy drugs or drink . the gaurds have serious crimes to deal with,drug dealers, criminal gangs , if people are giving money to beggars ,thats their loss.

.......

agoodpunt

I avoid shops who tolorate begging outsde its to subsidize addiction and its organised I why they all use the homeless excuse.

"Begging was always illegal here under the Vagrancy Act of 1847, but that ended after a constitutional challenge in 2007. ... The new law also makes it illegal to beg in certain places, such as at the entrances to business premises, near ATM cash machines, and in other area"

Why is the law not enforced? cut dole on repeat offenders?

MarkY91

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Then get a job?

Wanderer78

MarkY91 wrote: »

Then get a job?

...whats the chances of a person that may have been unemployed for a long period, of actually getting one?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...whats the chances of a person that may have been unemployed for a long period, of actually getting one?

Very slim with that attitude.

riclad

The gardai have more important things to do than arrest beggars,
they usually sit near the entrance to the shop ,
shop assistants cannot arrest someone who is just sitting in a public place.
some of them may be homeless ,some of them may just be looking for money to buy drugs.
if people stopped giving them money they would not be there .

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Welfare is enough to live on. More than enough. It should never ever be enough to live comfortably on. What would be the incentive to work?

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Very slim with that attitude.

you serious, an employer would easily take on someone that has been long term unemployed, and more than likely has complex psychological issues, and possibly some addiction issues?

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Welfare is enough to live on. More than enough. It should never ever be enough to live comfortably on. What would be the incentive to work?

so there was no justification for increasing covid payments?

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you serious, an employer would easily take on someone that has been long term unemployed, and more than likely has complex psychological issues, and possibly some addiction issues?



so there was no justification for increasing covid payments?

Different scenario. People were forcibly removed from their employment and compensated for the inconvenience. There should not be a comparable payment to all unemployed, some of whom have never and will never seek gainful employment even on the lower rate of payment.

Question: if the Dole becomes €350 a week , who will work in McDonald's or the local shop? Just increase the min wage? Ok. Now the shop worker gets €500+ a week, but wait there are graduates over there complaining now they don't get as much, why did they bother bettering themselves? What now the graduates can have €700 a week. Everyone's happy right. What? You want more now because he got more and she did too? Fine here you go.

Wait , where did the FDI guy go? Hello? HELLO?

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Different scenario. People were forcibly removed from their employment and compensated for the inconvenience. There should not be a comparable payment to all unemployed, some of whom have never and will never seek gainful employment even on the lower rate of payment.

Question: if the Dole becomes €350 a week , who will work in McDonald's or the local shop? Just increase the min wage? Ok. Now the shop worker gets €500+ a week, but wait there are graduates over there complaining now they don't get as much, why did they bother bettering themselves? What now the graduates can have €700 a week. Everyone's happy right. What? You want more now because he got more and she did too? Fine here you go.

Wait , where did the FDI guy go? Hello? HELLO?

...and our current approach of low wage inflation is working by....

LuasSimon

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Welfare in Ireland is very generous compared to the UK , 203 Euro v 70 Sterling.
As long as you dont have a drug, drink or gambling problem you could live a reasonable life on the dole . The main thing is to get somewhere to rent and pay the 30 euro each week contribution. 50 euro would buy a lot of groceries for a single person.

Wanderer78

LuasSimon wrote: »

Welfare in Ireland is very generous compared to the UK , 203 Euro v 70 Sterling.
As long as you dont have a drug, drink or gambling problem you could live a reasonable life on the dole . The main thing is to get somewhere to rent and pay the 30 euro each week contribution. 50 euro would buy a lot of groceries for a single person.

so what happens if you do have complex psychological issues, and are long term unemployed?

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so what happens if you do have complex psychological issues, and are long term unemployed?

A lot of the "complex" issues are no more complex than being a shiftless waster happy to supplement a handout with regular petty crime. How much effort do these people put in to seeking help for such "complex" issues?

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

A lot of the "complex" issues are no more complex than being a shiftless waster happy to supplement a handout with regular petty crime. How much effort do these people put in to seeking help for such "complex" issues?

whats your background in determining such issues?

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

whats your background in determining such issues?

What's yours?

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

What's yours?

a lifetime of mental health issues, and regularly interacting with mental health services

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a lifetime of mental health issues, and regularly interacting with mental health services

So none then, save for one personal experience. Would it be fair to say, you recognised you had mental health issues and sought out help (regardless of how much help was actually received).

Is it not a bit fanciful to suggest the vast majority of long term unemployed are suffering from various complex mental health issues, without any concrete evidence or professional background? Some may well be.

It's equally valid therefore for me to suggest with my only professional experience having been a period of unemployment which I spent re-educating that a large percentage of people (not all) who remain endemically long term unemployed are in fact lazy and too dependent on the handout to sort their situation out.

Man with broke phone

The people with the mental health problems begging need to be sectioned, the people with addictions need to be put in drunk tanks and the career beggars need to be dealt with in the most severe punishments allowed by our society.

I would vote for a law change where if found to be begging as a career you would be put to work as a farm animal. Dragging a plough or whatever. Fed like a farm animal and inly allowed an hour a day to yourself to apply for jobs.

They even lie to themselves and call it tapping because they cant admit to themselves they are beggars. Like they are great scam artists.
I need two euro for the bus bud. Sure you do.

There is a woman and two daughters in fairview most days that bus there and always people sitting with them offering them sympathy, they need to be forced into whatever department would help them or punish them.

There is also a growing number of begging Roma mothers who are visited by their well groomed daughters and sons in school uniforms at lunchtime to be given lunch money. Its a bizarre occurance I noticed working on a site that overlooks a few streets in dublin city centre.

Theres no shame the kids turn up like they are coming home for lunch. Talk in their language for a while and then get given money for a roll and can of coke or what have ye.

Then a pile of plebs who have some sort of need to show these people that they love them sitting with them for a half hour and giving them money or sandwhiches they put to the side and dont eat.

kravmaga

paul71 wrote: »

Romania has one of the smaller Roma populations of Europe. The Roma here are more likely to be Czech, Slovak or Hungarian.

They are SLOVAK, I was on a Ryanair flight a few weeks ago from Bratislava to Dublin. Ive travelled all over the Czech republic and Poland on various hols, did not see many roma there. Have never been to Hungary, so cant comment.

Early morning flight , we arrived at Bratislava airport at 06:30am.

Walked in side to get a coffee and low and behold its full of roma gypos.

Teeth missing, some had gold teeth, cheap ear rings, the women wearing the typical long dresses , black hair.

I couldnt believe it, all going to DUBLIN.

It got worse when we took our seats they were all seated around us, Id say about 25 of them, like a team, all in high spirits, laughing joking , sharing sambos and crisps, drinks with each other, they were speaking in there own ****ty roma language.

Low and behold when aircraft lands at Dublin they all clap and laugh, then revert into speaking in English.

None of them were aware of the HSE Covid Passenger locater forms and were trying to fill in at the last minute before approaching INIS-Immigration booths. A male was refused entry for no form filled out in front of me just threw his hands up and walked back to get another form.

Some were stopped and taken by immigration for further questioning. But the majority got through, I waited with the gf to see.

Seems Dublin is a popular destination for them. No wonder the city is crawling with them, seems to be teams arriving in large numbers.

And if the recent edition of Crimecall showing roma females in large groups fleecing a retailer/toy shop in a rural town recently is anything to go by.

Its just going to get worse, 37,500 of them in Irelands according to Eurostat. Only 3,000 here in 2004. Do the math.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/10/life-in-slovakias-roma-slums-poverty-and-segregation#:~:text=Numbering%20half%20a%20million%20and,ethnic%20minority%20in%20the%20country.

agoodpunt

agoodpunt wrote: »

Why is the law not enforced? cut dole on repeat offenders?

It has been pointed out by a few people including links, that the law is enforced

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Along with this other information they posted, I think those two could be part of an organised crime gang. The link I put before shows that the Gardai discovered other crimes when they carried out a crackdown on organised begging. Reporting the intimidation to the Gardai, could lead to them solving other crimes, like shoplifting.

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30897107.html

Still waiting for proof of the organising begging part.

riclad

The welfare payment 200 euro a week is enough for people to live on, they also get rent allowance if they do not live at home.
Why do people beg at all.?
I assume they need money to buy drugs,
Beer. There's people who work full time and earn 300 cash after paying tax prsi, health insurance.
Raising welfare rates would simply discourage people from working.
Maybe roma have stopped begging because Irish people copped on it was
a scam

dxhound2005

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Still waiting for proof of the organising begging part.

It would need the services of a legal professional to test it. I see it as being covered by clauses (b) and (d) here, by the fact that the two of them are materially involved in the organisation of begging at two separate premises. From the information given they are a gang of two, and that is the same as being a gang of three or twenty in my reading of the legislation.

Offence to direct or organise begging.

5.— (1) A person who—

(a) controls or directs the actions of another person for the purposes of begging,

(b) organises or is materially involved in the organisation of begging by another person,

(c) forces another person to beg, or

(d) otherwise causes another person to beg,

is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €200,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

corner of hells

Man with broke phone wrote: »

The people with the mental health problems begging need to be sectioned, the people with addictions need to be put in drunk tanks and the career beggars need to be dealt with in the most severe punishments allowed by our society.

I would vote for a law change where if found to be begging as a career you would be put to work as a farm animal. Dragging a plough or whatever. Fed like a farm animal and inly allowed an hour a day to yourself to apply for jobs.

They even lie to themselves and call it tapping because they cant admit to themselves they are beggars. Like they are great scam artists.
I need two euro for the bus bud. Sure you do.

There is a woman and two daughters in fairview most days that bus there and always people sitting with them offering them sympathy, they need to be forced into whatever department would help them or punish them.

There is also a growing number of begging Roma mothers who are visited by their well groomed daughters and sons in school uniforms at lunchtime to be given lunch money. Its a bizarre occurance I noticed working on a site that overlooks a few streets in dublin city centre.

Theres no shame the kids turn up like they are coming home for lunch. Talk in their language for a while and then get given money for a roll and can of coke or what have ye.

Then a pile of plebs who have some sort of need to show these people that they love them sitting with them for a half hour and giving them money or sandwhiches they put to the side and dont eat.

Goid evening Sturmfuhrer, the trains will be running on time tonight.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

The welfare payment 200 euro a week is enough for people to live on, they also get rent allowance if they do not live at home.
Why do people beg at all.?
I assume they need money to buy drugs,
Beer. There's people who work full time and earn 300 cash after paying tax prsi, health insurance.
Raising welfare rates would simply discourage people from working.
Maybe roma have stopped begging because Irish people copped on it was
a scam

I have given water and food to homeless people I would not give them money

corner of hells

riclad wrote: »

I have given water and food to homeless people I would not give them money

I think you're talking to yourself.

1990sman

would it be weird to just shoot them?
ok maybe a little at first... but wouldn't it just make sense soon after.

Kylta

1990sman wrote: »

would it be weird to just shoot them?
ok maybe a little at first... but wouldn't it just make sense soon after.

Yeah but only if they can shoot you back, im sure that would make sense to them. Maybe every time they hit you, you hand them 2euro

Mules

Kylta wrote: »

Yeah but only if they can shoot you back, im sure that would make sense to them. Maybe every time they hit you, you hand them 2euro

:D