Beggars sitting outside shops

Edgware

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

And you point is? Even with the pandemic there are ads up seeking workers.

riclad

The beggars I see in dublin are young people , I think they are looking for easy money to buy drugs or beer,
I don't think they have mental issues.
There's no easy solution to this issue.
Gardai have more important issues to deal with than beggars. Drug gangs, burglars, drunk drivers.
They look well dressed and healthy.

dxhound2005

riclad wrote: »

The beggars I see in dublin are young people , I think they are looking for easy money to buy drugs or beer,
I don't think they have mental issues.
There's no easy solution to this issue.
Gardai have more important issues to deal with than beggars. Drug gangs, burglars, drunk drivers.
They look well dressed and healthy.

The Gardai have a duty to enforce the leglisation. In particular they should take action against the organised begging gang reported on this thread, which threatened to damage property. They could do with the help of people who are happy to discuss it on the internet, but won't pursue it in real life.

Offence.

2.— A person who, while begging in any place—

(a) harasses, intimidates, assaults or threatens any other person or persons, or

(b) obstructs the passage of persons or vehicles,

is guilty of an offence and is liable, on summary conviction, to a class E fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or both.

Edgware

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Gardai have a duty to enforce the leglisation. In particular they should take action against the organised begging gang reported on this thread, which threatened to damage property. They could do with the help of people who are happy to discuss it on the internet, but won't pursue it in real life.

Offence.

2.— A person who, while begging in any place—

(a) harasses, intimidates, assaults or threatens any other person or persons, or

(b) obstructs the passage of persons or vehicles,

is guilty of an offence and is liable, on summary conviction, to a class E fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or both.

Its a disgrace Joe. The Guards hassling the poor homeless

The_Brood

I used to believe you must always help people no matter what and that fears that giving them money will only make things worse were only an excuse not to help....but I was completely wrong about that, I admit it. Very wrong.

There are solutions but they start with addressing much deeper problems in society rather than suggesting programs after the fact. Ireland is considered a first-world, very high quality of life society, but that absolutely does not reflect the reality for many people. Several governments have failed entirely at addressing this and have been let off the hook.

trashcan

1990sman wrote: »

would it be weird to just shoot them?
ok maybe a little at first... but wouldn't it just make sense soon after.

Not very efficient though. I believe some people did some practical research into "solutions" in the 1940's.

dxhound2005

The_Brood wrote: »

I used to believe you must always help people no matter what and that fears that giving them money will only make things worse were only an excuse not to help....but I was completely wrong about that, I admit it. Very wrong.

There are solutions but they start with addressing much deeper problems in society rather than suggesting programs after the fact. Ireland is considered a first-world, very high quality of life society, but that absolutely does not reflect the reality for many people. Several governments have failed entirely at addressing this and have been let off the hook.

They failed entirely at not making everyone equally rich/poor. No society has every achieved that.

nullzero

I've seen them changing shifts on more than one occasion, one holding the Fort being relieved of duty by the next beggar, probably a car nearby with the boss watching on.

whisky_galore

The_Brood wrote: »

I used to believe you must always help people no matter what and that fears that giving them money will only make things worse were only an excuse not to help....but I was completely wrong about that, I admit it. Very wrong.

There are solutions but they start with addressing much deeper problems in society rather than suggesting programs after the fact. Ireland is considered a first-world, very high quality of life society, but that absolutely does not reflect the reality for many people. Several governments have failed entirely at addressing this and have been let off the hook.

Some folks have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would need the services of a legal professional to test it. I see it as being covered by clauses (b) and (d) here, by the fact that the two of them are materially involved in the organisation of begging at two separate premises. From the information given they are a gang of two, and that is the same as being a gang of three or twenty in my reading of the legislation.

Offence to direct or organise begging.

5.— (1) A person who—

(a) controls or directs the actions of another person for the purposes of begging,

(b) organises or is materially involved in the organisation of begging by another person,

(c) forces another person to beg, or

(d) otherwise causes another person to beg,

is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €200,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

****ing finally. Thank you.

I don't think it is but who knows.

Yyhhuuu

The city I live in all the homeless and other beggars suddenly disappeared during lockdown. This is because there was no money to be made. Interesting how they all found a place to stay. Begging is becoming an industry. A lot of vested interests. Then you see all the do gooders sitting with them helping them. I would accept begging if there was no social welfare but for God's sake they're getting a fortune in social welfare in comparison to the UK. No wonder they're all here. Those in addiction need help. The others foreign beggars are sending money back home which is enough to build houses in their countries. The BBC & Channel 4 documentary on begging was very interesting. It's basically a scam. Many not even homeless. The money is so great better than a job. I heard of cases of beggars dying leaving vast sums behind.

corner of hells

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

The city I live in all the homeless and other beggars suddenly disappeared during lockdown. This is because there was no money to be made. Interesting how they all found a place to stay. Begging is becoming an industry. A lot of vested interests. Then you see all the do gooders sitting with them helping them. I would accept begging if there was no social welfare but for God's sake they're getting a fortune in social welfare in comparison to the UK. No wonder they're all here. Those in addiction need help. The others foreign beggars are sending money back home which is enough to build houses in their countries. The BBC & Channel 4 documentary on begging was very interesting. It's basically a scam. Many not even homeless. The money is so great better than a job. I heard of cases of beggars dying leaving vast sums behind.

What city

suicide_circus

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The traveler one who aggressively begs on the bridge in Stephens gn saying she’s hungry, lives in the estate next to me and the husband drives a Hyundai s40 and they are far from hungry. I fume every time I see her.

Is that the short one with dark curly hair who dosnt look the full shilling?

Yyhhuuu

corner of hells wrote: »

What city

An Irish city...

zerosugarbuzz

StereoSound wrote: »

Can anything be done about them to move them on ? Don't see store managers giving a sht about them asking their customers for money...would the cops move them on or they even bother to approach them ?

Can I suggest you bring them home to the warmth of where ever you live? I'm sure they would prefer your surroundings to the cold wet footpath out side the stores you mention. You, might in turn, learn some humanity from them, though that may be me being a little ambitious.

Edgware

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Can I suggest you bring them home to the warmth of where ever you live? I'm sure they would prefer your surroundings to the cold wet footpath out side the stores you mention. You, might in turn, learn some humanity from them, though that may be me being a little ambitious.

Loads of Irish people rang into Liveline offering accommodation to Syrian refugees last year but none were offering accommodation to our own ethnic minority

dxhound2005

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

****ing finally. Thank you.

I don't think it is but who knows.

That's not much of an answer after badgering me all day to get the information for you. And accusing me of making things up.

1990sman

deport the whole lot, feckin greeks

riclad

Every city has beggars .It,s not an industry, its individuals who sit outside shops waiting for people to drop money into a cup.there is no trade union or membership fee.
if you want to look at industrys ,theres organised crime,
gangs who import cocaine and marijuana ,heroin from various countrys and
have a local network of dealers to sell it in every small town in ireland.
now and then i see a roma woman begging ,but very rarely,
i think the roma people have found easier ways to make money .
from what i can see its legal to sit in a public place with a cup in front of you as long as you do not threaten or harass or annoy anyone, do not block an entrance ,do not stop retail staff from going about their business .

i,d prefer to live in a modern free country than have police just arresting
people who are just sitting on a street and begging .

dxhound2005

One of the easier ways they have found is the money changing scam.

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/crime/retailers-urged-be-aware-change-scam-1357366

Antares35

There was a woman used to beg outside bull and castle who was always telling people she was pregnant, but her pregnancy must have spanned about three years Come to think of it, that was one of the places we stopped drinking in because you would be tormented sitting outside from people asking for change and cigarettes constantly. The worst was having to listen to the drawn out story about their unfortunate circumstances, how they definitely definitely definitely were not doing drugs and had been locked out of their hostel and were fleeing an ex and just needed the train fare to Wexford etc. Same story every time. Jesus even kids copying homework know to compare notes.

Alejandro68

There was one young man who sat near my old place of work. And at closing I would put together a big dinner for him. He was always so polite and thankful. I still think of him and hope he is ok.

riclad

That's a classic I just need money for busfair, money for a hostel, homeless people are registered, they ring a free phone no, they get told to go to hostel x at street y, its free.
I'd respect beggars more if they had a sign, I need money for drugs,
I need money for beer. At least its honest

whisky_galore

riclad wrote: »

That's a classic I just need money for busfair, money for a hostel, homeless people are registered, they ring a free phone no, they get told to go to hostel x at street y, its free.
I'd respect beggars more if they had a sign, I need money for drugs,
I need money for beer. At least its honest

It was 20p to "phone home" when there were payphones!

auspicious

Why let a possible organised crime gang get in the way of the possible comfort gained in monetary gain and psychological gain to a person in real need?
Just give your couple of quid which you can afford and let the Guards sort the deviants out.
Or go get a sandwich for them where either way you're exercising your moral agency.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's not much of an answer after badgering me all day to get the information for you. And accusing me of making things up.

I wasn't badgering you. I was trying to get you to back your argument. That's all.

And you did make stuff up or at the very least, made assumptions.

Strumms

There is one lad beside the door of a petrol station which I use. The petrol station is on private land, so why the **** isn’t he being moved on. It’s not like outside a shop on a main street. He’s not aggressive per say but he has been rude, is rude and VERY persistent. If you shake your head or reply in the negative something mainly inaudible but of a disparaging tone with the odd ‘fûck...(inaudible)’ can be heard. I’d given him a few quid previously the odd time but when I heard that after I genuinely had nothing smaller than a 20 on me I said fûck it, also the guy is about a foot from the door so you are nearly bumping into him...

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

There is one lad beside the door of a petrol station which I use. The petrol station is on private land, so why the **** isn’t he being moved on. It’s not like outside a shop on a main street. He’s not aggressive per say but he has been rude, is rude and VERY persistent. If you shake your head or reply in the negative something mainly inaudible but of a disparaging tone with the odd ‘fûck...(inaudible)’ can be heard. I’d given him a few quid previously the odd time but when I heard that after I genuinely had nothing smaller than a 20 on me I said fûck it, also the guy is about a foot from the door so you are nearly bumping into him...

Ask the premises so, maybe they aren't bothered by him

1990sman

is this still a thread? really?

Pkiernan

1990sman wrote: »

is this still a thread? really?

The woke is strong in this one.