Beggars sitting outside shops

StereoSound

Can anything be done about them to move them on ? Don't see store managers giving a sht about them asking their customers for money...would the cops move them on or they even bother to approach them ?

humberklog

Pain in the hole and it's getting way worse.

I live on the Northside of Dublin and in my area they're outside every Spar and petrol station and a lot of shopping centres every day. And before anyone calls them "Homeless" they're not. There's 8 regular beggars in my area outside shops and all of them live in the modern apartment complexes beside me.

Whatever about those on the public pavement outside Spars (with Gardai almost having to step over them to get into the shop) how come they're not ran off petrol station forecourts and shopping centre entrances?

I've chatted to the housing association that house these beggars and they say whilst their case workers are disappointed in their behaviour there's nothing they can do about it.

The people I get most annoyed with is the people that regularly give money to them (and don't kid yourself- they don't want food or coffee). They are actively maintaining the problem.

Pkiernan

The majority of begging in Dublin is organised crime.

Trigger Happy

It's like door to door sales people...if people would stop giving them money they would stop.
Charities are far from perfect but a hell of a lot better than giving your money to a beggar on the street.

biko

Are they Irish or Roma?
Roma are in other countries too and get trafficked here from Romania.
https://extra.ie/2017/12/24/news/irish-news/organised-beggars-flying-from-romania

EmmetSpiceland

I’d always throw them a couple of quid, if I have it. If not a simple ‘sorry, I’ve no change’ will suffice.

These people are on one of the lowest “rungs” of society. Firing a few coins their way is the least I can do.

Can’t win with the misers on here. Don’t give tok “organised” charities because they waste it on wages, don’t give to beggars because they make you feel bad or they’re secretly millionaires.

stefanovich

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’d always throw them a couple of quid, if I have it. If not a simple ‘sorry, I’ve no change’ will suffice.

These people are on one of the lowest “rungs” of society. Firing a few coins their way is the least I can do.

Can’t win with the misers on here. Don’t give tok “organised” charities because they waste it on wages, don’t give to beggars because they make you feel bad or they’re secretly millionaires.

They are not homeless by the sounds of it. I think the coins tossed are likely to be converted to heroin.

Atlantic Dawn

biko wrote: »

Are they Irish or Roma?
Roma are in other countries too and get trafficked here from Romania.
https://extra.ie/2017/12/24/news/irish-news/organised-beggars-flying-from-romania

How does an EU citizen get trafficked to another EU country, makes no sense, they can leave any time and have free movement rights so would have no issue with being here illegally.

Eircom_Sucks

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’d always throw them a couple of quid, if I have it. If not a simple ‘sorry, I’ve no change’ will suffice.

These people are on one of the lowest “rungs” of society. Firing a few coins their way is the least I can do.

Can’t win with the misers on here. Don’t give tok “organised” charities because they waste it on wages, don’t give to beggars because they make you feel bad or they’re secretly millionaires.

you sir are the cause of these parasites , if nobody gave them anything they wouldn't be there

stefanovich

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How does an EU citizen get trafficked to another EU country, makes no sense, they can leave any time and have free movement rights so would have no issue with being here illegally.

The roma beggars around here appear to have minders. I've seen cars pull up to collect their "earnings".

Likely its the head of the family.

humberklog

biko wrote: »

Are they Irish or Roma?
Roma are in other countries too and get trafficked here from Romania.
https://extra.ie/2017/12/24/news/irish-news/organised-beggars-flying-from-romania

In my area D.13 they're all Irish. A couple of families, not Travellers. Mother and two twenty-something daughters being the most hardcore- all weather- all hours- 7 days a week commitment to the coffee cup.
You get Romas tapping at traffic junctions around here occasionally.

DD1518

There's some genuine cases of people being down and out and I have no issue with helping them by buying a meal and toiletries etc. I recently met a 22yo girl in a sleeping bag on Westmoreland street obviously had drug issues but wasn't begging just sat in a sombre state so I went over and offered to buy her a meal and got a few bits like tampons toothbrush deodorant she couldn't be more appreciative and sat telling me all her life story which was truly very tragic it's heartbreaking what some people have to endure in life. What annoys me is the organised Roma families who are moved from place to place and then collected in the evenings in high end cars I seen one particular elderly lady in 6 or 7 different spots over the years and most recently in Malahide she sure gets about for someone who's supposed to be homeless. There can be a lot of ungrateful people on the streets also and have been told many a time to stick my offer of food and just give them money no way am I supporting an addiction.

stefanovich

humberklog wrote: »

In my area D.13 they're all Irish. A couple of families, not Travellers. Mother and two twenty-something daughters being the most hardcore- all weather- all hours- 7 days a week commitment to the coffee cup.
You get Romas tapping at traffic junctions around here occasionally.

Imagine being addicted to heroin with your two kids also addicted. How could that happen?

humberklog

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’d always throw them a couple of quid, if I have it. If not a simple ‘sorry, I’ve no change’ will suffice.

These people are on one of the lowest “rungs” of society. Firing a few coins their way is the least I can do.

Can’t win with the misers on here. Don’t give tok “organised” charities because they waste it on wages, don’t give to beggars because they make you feel bad or they’re secretly millionaires.

I can assure you they are making way more money than me at the moment and that's excluding what they make tapping.

They get their dole, HAP, heating allowance and whatever else they're "entitled' to. I get nothing, I've two barely struggling shops with almost nothing coming in and I'm not claiming PUP.

These people are out begging to make more money. That's all it is. They aren't millionaires but they're no harder up financially than than anyone else on welfare.

Atlantic Dawn

Is the solution to this €100 on the spot fines for anyone giving them money? Handle it similar to prostitution.

humberklog

stefanovich wrote: »

Imagine being addicted to heroin with your two kids also addicted. How could that happen?

These aren't heroin addicts.

stefanovich

humberklog wrote: »

These aren't heroin addicts.

They are just doing it because it is profitable? Obviously they care nothing of what people think!

humberklog

stefanovich wrote: »

They are just doing it because it is profitable? Obviously they care nothing of what people think!

Well, yeah. That's by far and away most people tapping. Profitable in that it gives them extra cash.
I know more addicts that live ordinary lives, with jobs (even those that don't have a job wouldn't go begging as they're financially grand) and look after their families and keep a roof over their heads.

ShatterAlan

StereoSound wrote: »

Can anything be done about them to move them on ? Don't see store managers giving a sht about them asking their customers for money...would the cops move them on or they even bother to approach them ?

It's a public space. They have every right to be there annoying as it may be. And the store managers don't have the authority to order ANYBODY to do anything. They don't have powers of arrest or to move people along from a public area.

humberklog

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's a public space. They have every right to be there annoying as it may be. And the store managers don't have the authority to order ANYBODY to do anything. They don't have powers of arrest or to move people along from a public area.

What about the ones on petrol station forecourts and outside shopping centre entrances
(y'know like a Tesco where they own the car park/ entrance). Surely something could be done there by the owners?

The Continental Op

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's a public space. They have every right to be there annoying as it may be. And the store managers don't have the authority to order ANYBODY to do anything. They don't have powers of arrest or to move people along from a public area.

So shops like Lidl and Aldi don't own their own carparks and space outside their stores?

Tzardine

I went into the Centra beside work a few weeks back (Dublin city).

I never give them anything. I dont even acknowledge them. They are a scourge.

But one of them stung me well the other day. Have to give him credit. He played the game well.

I was walking past him and got the usual any change speil. I said, sorry, dont carry any cash - you know the Covid situation and all.

He says to me - any chance of buying me a sandwich.

Smart ****er.

Its hard to turn down buying somebody some food if they say they are hungry. Even if they are a strung out drug user. So I bought him a sandwich.

Moral of the story - im going back to not acknowledging them.

GarIT

I've seen thses around Celbridge and Maynooth getting collected in a €80,000 Range Rover Velar at around 8pm in the evenings.


They are entitled to the dole and HAP they have no need for anything more.

LollipopJimmy

Trigger Happy wrote: »

It's like door to door sales people...if people would stop giving them money they would stop.
Charities are far from perfect but a hell of a lot better than giving your money to a beggar on the street.

Bit unfair to compare beggars with door to door sales people. I have a lot of respect for the sales guys, they go out and work hard to earn a living, a lot of the time for no guarantee of income.

messrs

Tzardine wrote: »

I went into the Centra beside work a few weeks back (Dublin city).

I never give them anything. I dont even acknowledge them. They are a scourge.

But one of them stung me well the other day. Have to give him credit. He played the game well.

I was walking past him and got the usual any change speil. I said, sorry, dont carry any cash - you know the Covid situation and all.

He says to me - any chance of buying me a sandwich.

Smart ****er.

Its hard to turn down buying somebody some food if they say they are hungry. Even if they are a strung out drug user. So I bought him a sandwich.

Moral of the story - im going back to not acknowledging them.

Was walking down the quays few weeks ago on a Saturday morning, guy stopped me and asked for money, like you I said , sorry I cant help I don't carry cash - he then came right up in my face and told me to walk back to a shop with him and buy him stuff on my card!

Tzardine

messrs wrote: »

Was walking down the quays few weeks ago on a Saturday morning, guy stopped me and asked for money, like you I said , sorry I cant help I don't carry cash - he then came right up in my face and told me to walk back to a shop with him and buy him stuff on my card!

Feck that.

I bought my lad a sandwich cause he asked nicely.

Your lad should have been given a Glasgow kiss. Cheeky cnut trying to intimidate people.

humberklog

I'd know most of them around the south part of the city and some of them are funny fookers and sound when they know you.

One guy does have a cracking intro- "sorry gents, any change?"

Mumble, mumble, shuffle "no 'fraid not."

Beggar- ah balls me car insurance is crippling me and it's a pre '08 so the tax on it is mental.

Usually this gets a big laugh and (clever enough) gets him a few bob. This guy doesn't drive, isn't a junkie, has a nice pad in the Iveagh Trust buildings and isn't short for anything. When that joke works I even give a couple of quid.

GarIT

The Continental Op wrote: »

So shops like Lidl and Aldi don't own their own carparks and space outside their stores?

Tesco in Celbridge move them on, and you'd think there would be a few around The Square in Tallaght but I haven't seen any. not sure of the difference.

LollipopJimmy

humberklog wrote: »

I'd know most of them around the south part of the city and some of them are funny fookers and sound when they know you.

One guy does have a cracking intro- "sorry gents, any change?"

Mumble, mumble, shuffle "no 'fraid not."

Beggar- ah balls me car insurance is crippling me and it's a pre '08 so the tax on it is mental.

Usually this gets a big laugh and (clever enough) gets him a few bob. This guy doesn't drive, isn't a junkie, has a nice pad in the Iveagh Trust buildings and isn't short for anything. When that joke works I even give a couple of quid.

I volunteer with a rough sleeper team and those I see begging during the day when going to or from work I rarely see at night when I'm out with the team.

Those that are short money for dealers are sent to 'work' to get enough for their fix.

ShatterAlan

The Continental Op wrote: »

So shops like Lidl and Aldi don't own their own carparks and space outside their stores?

I can't speak for petrol station forecourts. I don't know if you can be trespassed from them.


But the space in front of shops is not the shop's property anymore that the space in front of your house is not your property....that is if your front door opens directly onto the street. The footpath is public space.


There might be a case for loitering or harassment or public nuisance laws but they're pretty vague.

gerrybbadd

Have you tried a blast of hot, hot piss to the eyeball region?

whisky_galore

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare beggars with door to door sales people. I have a lot of respect for the sales guys, they go out and work hard to earn a living, a lot of the time for no guarantee of income.

Hawking crap with no guarantees that no-one wants. What is it, the 1950s? You can get most anything in a brick and mortar shop or online with some form of come back if something goes wrong.

ShatterAlan

GarIT wrote: »

I've seen thses around Celbridge and Maynooth getting collected in a €80,000 Range Rover Velar at around 8pm in the evenings.


They are entitled to the dole and HAP they have no need for anything more.

These urban myths about beggars rolling up their piece of cardboard and walking around the corner and getting into a chauffer driven Bentley are laughable. Does anybody who peddles these yarns have any self-respect?

humberklog

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I volunteer with a rough sleeper team and those I see begging during the day when going to or from work I rarely see at night when I'm out with the team.

Those that are short money for dealers are sent to 'work' to get enough for their fix.

Yeah, the day ones in the city are very different than the night ones in the city. Those doing days are more than likely in some type of shelter (or roughing it) and they're generally more chaotic and often cruising the streets shoplifting and tapping.

The ones in the evening I find a lot less chaotic and less dangerous and are mostly out just getting a few quid.

But those out beside where I live (suburbs) tap from morning to evening and aren't dangerous and aren't homeless and receive no less than anyone else on welfare. They just choose to sit outside their local shops and beg. And it's annoying.

dartboardio

I never, ever give beggars money, I have maybe twice in my life, I've bought a coffee and a bar etc for a few of them before.

Ever since a young girl who I know to see begging around town, came into a shop I worked in a few years ago claiming she was a hairdresser down the road and had lost her purse and she needed money to get home, I dont trust most beggars,

my boss (who was a very kind and generous person) wanted to help her immediately and said come in, sit down, I'm leaving in a half hour and I will bring you to where you need to go.

She refused and said she would prefer to get a taxi back, can he lend her twenty quid and she will drop it back tomorrow since she 'only works up the road'

He gave in, and gave her the money out of his own till, and she was never seen again of course. Still see her begging around town with swollen hands like balloons from what i assume is injecting heroin or something.

She actually came into the shop one day looking for free food after that, I told her where to go, the cheeky bitch.

biko

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How does an EU citizen get trafficked to another EU country, makes no sense, they can leave any time and have free movement rights so would have no issue with being here illegally.

Trafficking doesn't mean smuggling into a country without permission of entry.
It is a form of modern slavery.

The Act (What is done)
Recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons

The Means (How it is done)
Threat or use of force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power or vulnerability, or giving payments or benefits to a person in control of the victim

The Purpose (Why it is done)
For the purpose of exploitation, which includes exploiting the prostitution of others, sexual exploitation, forced labour, slavery or similar practices and the removal of organs.

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/what-is-human-trafficking.html#What_is_Human_Trafficking

whisky_galore

ShatterAlan wrote: »

These urban myths about beggars rolling up their piece of cardboard and walking around the corner and getting into a chauffer driven Bentley are laughable. Does anybody who peddles these yarns have any self-respect?

Maybe not as exaggerated as you put it, but begging rings exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%25C3%25AD-arrest-46-people-over-organised-begging-in-dublin-1.3696911%3fmode=amp

If you want to give something, offer food or a tea or coffee. That sorts out genuine cases from spoofers.

paul71

biko wrote: »

Are they Irish or Roma?
Roma are in other countries too and get trafficked here from Romania.
https://extra.ie/2017/12/24/news/irish-news/organised-beggars-flying-from-romania

Romania has one of the smaller Roma populations of Europe. The Roma here are more likely to be Czech, Slovak or Hungarian.

The Continental Op

ShatterAlan wrote: »

These urban myths about beggars rolling up their piece of cardboard and walking around the corner and getting into a chauffer driven Bentley are laughable. Does anybody who peddles these yarns have any self-respect?

I've never seen them get into a chauffer driven Bentley but I've seen beggars dropped off in the morning and picked up in the evening.

I've also seen a family group that parked up and then got out and changed from their decent leather jackets for ragged old ones.

Get Real

ShatterAlan wrote: »

These urban myths about beggars rolling up their piece of cardboard and walking around the corner and getting into a chauffer driven Bentley are laughable. Does anybody who peddles these yarns have any self-respect?

No they're not urban myths. At least with a certain section. Granted, not chauffer driven Bentleys

But do they roll up their cardboard and hop into cars after? Yes.

Do they receive the dole and accommodation? Yes.

I know one family, because I lived in the apartment next door in Tallaght, who own their apartment. Kids going to school, normal life.

Still drove into town and got the cardboard out. Travelled back home every few months.

I'm pro imigration and believe in diversity and inclusiveness for all BTW. I'm not coming in with that angle.

Just making the point that it is entirely possible some are living relatively normal lives, and are not in the gutter.

humberklog

humberklog wrote: »

..........
I know more addicts that live ordinary lives, with jobs (even those that don't have a job wouldn't go begging as they're financially grand) and look after their families and keep a roof over their heads.

What are they addicted to?

GarIT

ShatterAlan wrote: »

These urban myths about beggars rolling up their piece of cardboard and walking around the corner and getting into a chauffer driven Bentley are laughable. Does anybody who peddles these yarns have any self-respect?

I've seen it with my own eyes.

humberklog

humberklog wrote: »

I'd know most of them around the south part of the city and some of them are funny fookers and sound when they know you.

One guy does have a cracking intro- "sorry gents, any change?"

Mumble, mumble, shuffle "no 'fraid not."

Beggar- ah balls me car insurance is crippling me and it's a pre '08 so the tax on it is mental.

Usually this gets a big laugh and (clever enough) gets him a few bob. This guy doesn't drive, isn't a junkie, has a nice pad in the Iveagh Trust buildings and isn't short for anything. When that joke works I even give a couple of quid.

A few lads have laughed at my response to their request for change which is "sorry bud, you're better off then myself".

EmmetSpiceland

humberklog wrote: »

I can assure you they are making way more money than me at the moment and that's excluding what they make tapping.

They get their dole, HAP, heating allowance and whatever else they're "entitled' to. I get nothing, I've two barely struggling shops with almost nothing coming in and I'm not claiming PUP.

These people are out begging to make more money. That's all it is. They aren't millionaires but they're no harder up financially than than anyone else on welfare.

A real shame that the points for begging went up so high this year, H. You could have made a good career out of it.

Would you think of trying a different “route”? Maybe give up the retail, roll up your sleeves, and take to the streets?

Eircom_Sucks

messrs wrote: »

Was walking down the quays few weeks ago on a Saturday morning, guy stopped me and asked for money, like you I said , sorry I cant help I don't carry cash - he then came right up in my face and told me to walk back to a shop with him and buy him stuff on my card!

headbutt to the noggin will sort that cnut out

Eircom_Sucks

Augeo wrote: »

What are they addicted to?

sponging of decent folk

messrs

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

headbutt to the noggin will sort that cnut out

I'm barely 5 foot so wouldn't be able to reach

Pkiernan

Augeo wrote: »

What are they addicted to?

Addicted to free everything

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is the solution to this €100 on the spot fines for anyone giving them money? Handle it similar to prostitution.

Sooooooo...we punish genuine people living on the street?

If I give a tenner to a genuine person living on the street (and, much to our great shame, we have no shortage of them) I should be handed an on the spot fine of €100?


Rarely have I read such bollocks.

dhaughton99

The traveler one who aggressively begs on the bridge in Stephens gn saying she’s hungry, lives in the estate next to me and the husband drives a Hyundai s40 and they are far from hungry. I fume every time I see her.

humberklog

Augeo wrote: »

What are they addicted to?

Heroin. Fully functioning addicts.