Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

3xh

end of the road wrote: »

the measures are based on facts, evidence and science.
the majority of irish people have shown themselves to be rational and understanding of facts and the reality that we are in a pandemic situation, which means certain measures have to be implemented so as to protect all manner of aspects of the country's operation/functioning as well as people vulnerable to this illness.
they are doing a great job and are doing a great service to their country and for that most of us are very, very proud.
most aspects of normal will absolutely return, however yes some changes that were coming anyway, which came way earlier then they would have due to covid, will in all likely hood remain, and there isn't anything that can be done about that as these changes were coming slowly but surely anyway.
you need to accept reality, i get it is hard but everything is against your viewpoints.

A clearly loaded/mouth piece type post. No one speaks like that under normal circumstances off the bat. A highly refined post for a reason, imo.

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1326491538868891655

This is just a cover up

HPSE up to recently was publishing hospital acquired infection but stopped about 3 weeks ago

end of the road wrote: »

the measures are based on facts, evidence and science.

No it is not based on fact, evidence and science.

It’s a smoke and mirrors exercise to ensure adherence to nonsense restrictions via implied law and selective reporting.

I really wish I didn’t have the mental capacity to understand the mechanics of ineptitude and could just throw on the green shirt sit back and watch in awe of Tony every night

Idbatterim

3xh wrote: »

Incredible, if true. And it looks like it is.

Once again, the power of statistics. And still people blindly call for the continuation/deepening of restrictions because ‘look at the figures from NPHET on RTɒ

There’s ineptitude and there’s what NHPET/HPSE are doing with the figures simply for their own narrative in protecting their skins. Absolutely shameful.

It goes to show how serious it is, haning a totally compliant media. I mean rte are a government propagsnda machine, the rest atent far behind. If there was one main media outlet here questioning the insanity of all this bull****, things would not be panning out thecway they are.

The lack of an alternative voice, which you have in most other countries, where you hear the arguaments from both sides, is actually a danger to the security of this state in my opinion. Its phenomenal for politician useless, lazy , confornist politicians

normanoffside

3xh wrote: »

Incredible, if true. And it looks like it is.

Once again, the power of statistics. And still people blindly call for the continuation/deepening of restrictions because ‘look at the figures from NPHET on RTɒ

There’s ineptitude and there’s what NHPET/HPSE are doing with the figures simply for their own narrative in protecting their skins. Absolutely shameful.

Given that 8 of yesterday's deaths with covid were in hospital patients, there are a lot of questions to be asked.
Unfortunately no-one is asking them.

3xh

normanoffside wrote: »

Given that 8 of yesterday's deaths with covid were in hospital patients, there are a lot of questions to be asked.
Unfortunately no-one is asking them.

I actually suspect many many people here who write like they’re in favour of these restrictions etc actually don’t understand the true meaning of your question.

charlie14

Cyrus wrote: »

just answer the question, its a simple yes or no, the fact you won't speaks volumes to be honest.

I see you only included the last line of my post in your reply.
I can understand why alright. To include the complete post would just show how ridiculous your question is.
I have already told you if you cannot understand what I said in that post then there is nothing more I can do for you.

end of the road

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No it is not based on fact, evidence and science.

It’s a smoke and mirrors exercise to ensure adherence to nonsense restrictions via implied law and selective reporting.

I really wish I didn’t have the mental capacity to understand the mechanics of ineptitude and could just throw on the green shirt sit back and watch in awe of Tony every night

of course they are based on the facts evidence and science, come on now, lets come back in to the real world.
if everything showed the approach we are taking didn't work then there would be no good reason or incentive to take it.

normanoffside

3xh wrote: »

I actually suspect many many people here who write like they’re in favour of these restrictions etc actually don’t understand the true meaning of your question.

I can hear Tony's answers now:

"I don't have those statistics in front of me right now. I'll get them to you" (followed by radio silence)

Or

" If we can't control the spread of covid in the community, we won't be able to stop it spreading in nursing homes or Hospitals" (i.e. Blame the public).

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

It goes to show how serious it is, haning a totally compliant media. I mean rte are a government propagsnda machine, the rest atent far behind. If there was one main media outlet here questioning the insanity of all this bull****, things would not be panning out thecway they are.

The lack of an alternative voice, which you have in most other countries, where you hear the arguaments from both sides, is actually a danger to the security of this state in my opinion. Its phenomenal for politician useless, lazy , confornist politicians

yes, the fact the media aren't "questioning" the "bull" as in putting out alternative facts and all else, along with denying the actual facts, says it all.
that you know, the information we are getting is accurate and covid is actually an issue and most people are in fact rational.
where there are genuine differeing points of view on certain things, and they are based on evidence, they get plenty of airing as is absolutely correct, as they can and will put forward their arguments rationally and have something to back them up.
where they are crack pots, or have views based on nothing, they might get an airing until they give themselves enough rope, as it should be.
the "alternative" voice that you are looking for, which i have a feeling is quite likely to be one that propagates the "it's only a flue" or "it's a hoax" nonsense 24 hours a day, obviously has no real demand, and even if it did, not a chance would it be allowed given the actual threat to the state it would be.

normanoffside wrote: »

I can hear Tony's answers now:

"I don't have those statistics in front of me right now. I'll get them to you" (followed by radio silence)

Or

" If we can't control the spread of covid in the community, we won't be able to stop it spreading in nursing homes or Hospitals" (i.e. Blame the public).

stating that being unable to control the spread of the virus in nursing homes or hospitals if it cannot be controlled in the community is not blaming the public, but simplystating a common sense reality.

controlling the spread in the community absolutely is the main key.

3xh

normanoffside wrote: »

I can hear Tony's answers now:

"I don't have those statistics in front of me right now. I'll get them to you" (followed by radio silence)

Or

" If we can't control the spread of covid in the community, we won't be able to stop it spreading in nursing homes or Hospitals" (i.e. Blame the public).

Yep.

To anyone here who speaks supportively of NHPET et al, of the 8 who died and were included in yesterday’s figures, how many acquired it after admittance to hospital?

The answer is you don’t know. Because you’re not told. But in your attempt to support NPHET, you say X people died yesterday so follow the rules.

If those figures a number of post back are correct, more than 50% of hospital cases are hospital acquired.

No excuse. We flew something like 3000T of PPE in from China and Korea. Not to mention locally acquired stuff. Between a lack of other medical procedures to use up the PPE and little hospitalisations over the summer, they’re not hoarding their last few masks here.

No wonder we had the quick return to L5 when Tony came back. He saw the increase in hospital acquired transmissions and said no fcuking way, not on my watch again. So we take the hit then.

Penfailed

3xh wrote: »

I actually suspect many many people here who write like they’re in favour of these restrictions etc actually don’t understand the true meaning of your question.

He didn't ask a question.

normanoffside

end of the road wrote: »

stating that being unable to control the spread of the virus in nursing homes or hospitals if it cannot be controlled in the community is not blaming the public, but simplystating a common sense reality.

controlling the spread in the community absolutely is the main key.

What about putting some of the 10s of Billions spent into making those more secure environments?

E.G. Daily, even weekly testing of nursing home staff (it used to be weekly tests, not it is fortnightly).

Increased testing of Hospital staff etc?

normanoffside

Penfailed wrote: »

He didn't ask a question.

3 obvious questions, based on the stats on covid acquired in hospital about the 8 Hospital patients reported as Covid related deaths yesterday:

Were they admitted to Hospital because of Covid?

Did they catch covid in hospital and die because of it?

Did they have another terminal illness and pick up Covid in hospital and just happen to die with it?

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

3 obvious questions, based on the stats on covid acquired in hospital about the 8 Hospital patients reported as Covid related deaths yesterday:

Were they admitted to Hospital because of Covid?

Did they catch covid in hospital and die because of it?

Did they have another terminal illness and pick up Covid in hospital and just happen to die with it?

Questions that Joe Public doesn't have the answers for. I do understand what you are implying.

3xh

normanoffside wrote: »

3 obvious questions, based on the stats on covid acquired in hospital about the 8 Hospital patients reported as Covid related deaths yesterday:

Were they admitted to Hospital because of Covid?

Did they catch covid in hospital and die because of it?

Did they have another terminal illness and pick up Covid in hospital and just happen to die with it?

Thank you. More patience than I have.

normanoffside

Penfailed wrote: »

Questions that Joe Public doesn't have the answers for. I do understand what you are implying.

I'm not implying anything, but some of the Journalists should be asking these types of questions to NPHET at the briefings and pushing them for answers when they try to swerve them.

NPHET are not going to volunteer this type of information.

There is absolutely no critical thinking in our media and they just want to take Tony's word as Gospel and report it as fact.

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm not implying anything, but some of the Journalists should be asking these types of questions to NPHET at the briefings and pushing them for answers when they try to swerve them.

NPHET are not going to volunteer this type of information.

There is absolutely no critical thinking in our media and they just want to take Tony's word as Gospel and report it as fact.

I agree.

average_runner

normanoffside wrote: »

What about putting some of the 10s of Billions spent into making those more secure environments?

E.G. Daily, even weekly testing of nursing home staff (it used to be weekly tests, not it is fortnightly).

Increased testing of Hospital staff etc?

Most nursing homes are private businesses. The good ones are testing every week.

Johnboy1951

charlie14 wrote: »

You do not seem to get the concept of a worldwide ratio.
Tell you what, see as you appear to have so much time on your hands delving into minutia, why don`t you add up all the confirmed cases worldwide, all the deaths worldwide and then come back to me with the ratio of deaths to confirmed cases and we can have a chat.

As you are so fond of that 3% I am sure you can post a link to your source for it.

What you do not seem to understand, despite supposedly having read the explanations by Johns Hopkins, is that a statistic such as CFR is an unsound one from which to draw any meaningful conclusions.
The same can be said of IFR statistics.

If 100% of the population was tested then we would have meaningful statistics, but still have to make allowances for false results from tests as well as double testing of a percentage of people.

The only meaningful statistic to me is that which shows the excess deaths, when compared to previous years, for each month of the year.
From that we would know the true number of deaths caused by the impact of Covid.

There would likely be a reduction in road deaths due to travel restrictions etc., probably an increase in deaths from untreated illnesses as well as the number of deaths due directly to Covid, with a reduction in deaths from other respiratory causes, because Covid got there first.
Of course we cannot gauge the number of deaths that lack of treatment will cause the likes of cancer patients and others. That will remain an unknown.

At the end of the day the best figure we can consider is excess deaths when compared to previous time periods.
That shows us how deadly Covid has been.

FintanMcluskey

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

At the end of the day the best figure we can consider is excess deaths when compared to previous time periods.
That shows us how deadly Covid has been.

The official death statistics are due to be published for the 1st 6 months of the year in about a fortnight.

It will be interesting to see how many more died up to July 1st in 2020 when compared with 2019

Johnboy1951

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The official death statistics are due to be published for the 1st 6 months of the year in about a fortnight.

It will be interesting to see how many more died up to July 1st in 2020 when compared with 2019

I hope they do compasirons between more than one year and per month, so that we can have a very good idea not only of the excess numbers but when exactly they occurred.

end of the road

3xh wrote: »

Yep.

To anyone here who speaks supportively of NHPET et al, of the 8 who died and were included in yesterday’s figures, how many acquired it after admittance to hospital?

The answer is you don’t know. Because you’re not told. But in your attempt to support NPHET, you say X people died yesterday so follow the rules.

If those figures a number of post back are correct, more than 50% of hospital cases are hospital acquired.

No excuse. We flew something like 3000T of PPE in from China and Korea. Not to mention locally acquired stuff. Between a lack of other medical procedures to use up the PPE and little hospitalisations over the summer, they’re not hoarding their last few masks here.

No wonder we had the quick return to L5 when Tony came back. He saw the increase in hospital acquired transmissions and said no fcuking way, not on my watch again. So we take the hit then.

whatever the stat as to the amount of people who got covid while in hospital actually is, it is not the trump card you seem to think it is .
the fact is that there will still be those who got it outside hospital, and that community transmission hasn't gone away as it was never going to completely do so, all be it is lessened with our vital public health measures.
absolutely if people are getting covid while in hospital then that is a serious issue and must absolutely be dealt with, but it does not in any way negate the need for the restrictions out in the community.
by the way PPE does not remove the risk of catching covid, it just lessens it.

normanoffside wrote: »

What about putting some of the 10s of Billions spent into making those more secure environments?

E.G. Daily, even weekly testing of nursing home staff (it used to be weekly tests, not it is fortnightly).

Increased testing of Hospital staff etc?

all of those should be done as a matter of course yes, but community transmission minimisation measures are the key to making all of that as effective as possible.

Seweryn

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

At the end of the day the best figure we can consider is excess deaths when compared to previous time periods.
That shows us how deadly Covid has been.

Eh... no. Would that not be too logical ?

Cyrus

Seweryn wrote: »

Eh... no. Would that not be too logical ?

that type of reasoned post has no place here :pac::D

normanoffside

end of the road wrote: »

all of those should be done as a matter of course yes, but community transmission minimisation measures are the key to making all of that as effective as possible.

But We're 8 months in and they haven't been done.

Seweryn

Cyrus wrote: »

that type of reasoned post has no place here :pac::D

I know. I was just going to leave it here .

ShyMets

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah lads this has to be a parody?

My detectors are off due to some of the stuff posted on Covid forum’s over the past few months

He's either Walter Mitty or Tony Holohan. The jury is still out. But my money is on Walter Mitty

FintanMcluskey

Seweryn wrote: »

Eh... no. Would that not be too logical ?

The worst pandemic since the deadly pandemic of 2018!

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The worst pandemic since the deadly pandemic of 2018!

This.

:D:D

normanoffside

average_runner wrote: »

Most nursing homes are private businesses. The good ones are testing every week.

THE HSE should be providing (at a minimum) weekly testing at all nursing homes, private or public.

They are not doing so presently.