Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Tenzor07

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

But all you have to say is you are going shopping. Have a few bags in the boot. The Gardaí will not check.

Wear a builders jacket and have a hard hat on the passenger seat "Just going to work chief".....

Penfailed

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

But all you have to say is you are going shopping. Have a few bags in the boot. The Gardaí will not check.

Yep!

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

So they can spend 8 hours a day with 30 kids but can't kick a ball with 4 of them after school.....

Father of the year sewn up there papa nox.....

Schools should not be open but that’s beside the point, introducing even more contacts further increases the risk of getting the virus.

JimToken

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

But all you have to say is you are going shopping. Have a few bags in the boot. The Gardaí will not check.

How far can u go shopping

martingriff

Stormyteacup wrote: »

There will always be some of that I agree, not convinced that’s the main reason cases are rising.

I’m hoping as much as anyone else that these measures bring cases down. But if this is the only way to bring cases down there needs to be another solution offered.

There is follow the damn rules (not directed at you)

Cluedo Monopoly

JimToken wrote: »

How far can u go shopping

I am 10 miles from the nearest major town but once I am in town I can go where I like to shop. I drove up and down the county in the previous lockdown and only got stopped twice. I was shopping for elderly relatives. Gardai admitted to me that the checkpoints were futile - if people want to go somewhere they will find an excuse. They cannot check.

Cluedo Monopoly

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Schools should not be open but that’s beside the point, introducing even more contacts further increases the risk of getting the virus.

Would you not think of finding someone with the virus and spending some time with them. Then isolate for 14 days with some good books and a TV. You will more than likely recover and you'll have a lot less paranoia in your life.

hynesie08

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Schools should not be open but that’s beside the point, introducing even more contacts further increases the risk of getting the virus.

So, they can play with their school friends?? We've been told the virus doesn't transmit in schools, so is it the building that protects them or the jumper......

martingriff

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I am 10 miles from the nearest major town but once I am in town I can go where I like to shop. I drove up and down the county in the previous lockdown and only got stopped twice. I was shopping for elderly relatives. Gardai admitted to me that the checkpoints were futile - if people want to go somewhere they will find an excuse. They cannot check.

You do have some stupid people though. In the last lock down a family from Dublin or Wexford were going to there holiday home in west Clare nearly there stopped by the Gardai. Holiday stuff in the car. Got there phone number and home address and turned around. Told to go home and they be a visit later in the night to make sure they are home. If not then they be fined with the fines there at that time

Cluedo Monopoly

martingriff wrote: »

You do have some stupid people though. In the last lock down a family from Dublin or Wexford were going to there holiday home in west Clare nearly there stopped by the Gardai. Holiday stuff in the car. Got there phone number and home address and turned around. Told to go home and they be a visit later in the night to make sure they are home. If not then they be fined with the fines there at that time

Were there fines in the 1st lockdown? I don't think so.

Dublin folks were all over Connemara during the Easter holidays.

martingriff

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Were there fines in the 1st lockdown? I don't think so.

Dublin folks were all over Connemara during the Easter holidays.

No they were just one of the ones I remember

Jorge Limited Maze

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Schools should not be open but that’s beside the point, introducing even more contacts further increases the risk of getting the virus.

Wow nox..abit of sense now eh..good shtuff..youre on the turn;)

hamburgham

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads let me give an example of the madness! /QUOTE]

And more madness.Despite the massive costs we’re incurring, and swept under the carpet by the media, the public sector got their 2% this month. The private sector got two fingers.

Stormyteacup

martingriff wrote: »

There is follow the damn rules (not directed at you)

Yes fair enough it’s tough to watch people completely flout guidelines, but the blame game is misdirection.

Data now suggests that visiting extended family, even in very small gatherings, but frequently, is likely a major source of spread. This is still relatively recent - we were told 6 people from 3 households for a while.

Emphasis has been on reducing contacts, but you can’t blame people when the focus in the media has been on house parties, GAA events and golf dinners.

The message is being lost each development as we progress and that’s completely down to lack of leadership.

There would be respect and compliance if government would hold their hands up to past mistakes and be seen to be making efforts to communicate clearly the reasons for any change in policy. Alongside any positive news from brass tacks solutions they are implementing. Instead, we get patronisation, further segregation and as*-covering excuses.

dalyboy

How the hell does this make sense. ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/traffic-light-system-for-covid-detection-to-operate-at-irish-airports-in-november-1.4387454%3fmode=amp

I’m in zero favour of restrictions and want our airports and ports supported but admittedly (paradoxically) how is it “ok” for the Irish people to be restricted in their 5km zones and holiday makers from outside being able to drive from Dublin to Cork or Donegal 100% unabated by 5km restriction laws or penalties.

This entire fines system is a legal mess imo

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Were there fines in the 1st lockdown? I don't think so.

Dublin folks were all over Connemara during the Easter holidays.

Yea there was a few in court recently over breaches of the first lockdown.

Kermit.de.frog

#wearyourmasksproperly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0unPpRJ85Kw

MOH

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Data now suggests that visiting extended family, even in very small gatherings, but frequently, is likely a major source of spread. This is still relatively recent - we were told 6 people from 3 households for a while.

What data, though?
Sorry, not being smart, and this isn't an attack on you. But there literally is no data. Contact tracing starts when somebody goes in with symptoms, and goes downstream from there. So naturally family will be the highest identified infected contacts.
But there's nothing going back to find where patient zero in the household got it. Restaurant? Gym? Shop? Kids in school? 80% of clusters in the last weekly cluster report originated at home. That's clearly ludicrous.

I agree with most of what you're saying though

Lundstram

This post from the main Covid19 thread really put things in perspective. We are being conned.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115001495

SusieBlue

Just saw an article on the FB page of my local newspaper (The Evening Echo) that since the start of the pandemic in March, there have been 51 deaths in Cork to coronavirus according to the CSO office.
There has been 3,611 deaths in the city and county from other causes in that time.
Those numbers are actually astonishing, and they don’t justify going into lockdown for one more day, let alone another 6 weeks.
The many are being sacrificed for the few. It’s gut wrenching to imagine all those people who died alone, with no family around them and without proper send offs for absolutely no justifiable cause.
What we’re doing is farcical at this stage, the numbers clearly show that our militant response is a complete overreaction to the level of risk.

WhiteMemento9

Lundstram wrote: »

This post from the main Covid19 thread really put things in perspective. We are being conned.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115001495

The only people getting conned are the people who actually care about others and have been trying to live life to help limit the spread and not end up in a situation where repeated lockdowns are necessary. Your posts here have shown over and over that you are part of a group of people who are at the route of the problem. That will never sink in for the likes of you because you have also repeatedly shown with your posts that you don't have two brain cells to rub together.

Stheno wrote: »

Before today we had the most rigorous restrictions in Europe as per the EU.

There is a reason that while this is the case we still have sharp increases in numbers. It is just a sad indictment of Irish society that we are incapable of showing common sense and need extremely tough rules to limit the spread for many people.

uli84

Here they are closing the shops, in Poland they are opening more often to avoid the crowds hahahah

MelbourneMan

dalyboy wrote: »

How the hell does this make sense. ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/traffic-light-system-for-covid-detection-to-operate-at-irish-airports-in-november-1.4387454%3fmode=amp

I’m in zero favour of restrictions and want our airports and ports supported but admittedly (paradoxically) how is it “ok” for the Irish people to be restricted in their 5km zones and holiday makers from outside being able to drive from Dublin to Cork or Donegal 100% unabated by 5km restriction laws or penalties.

This entire fines system is a legal mess imo

Hello. I can explain how this does make sense. I have seen such confusion elsewhere as well, so you are not alone in not understanding the rationale.

The virus transmits by person to person contact. Transmission is reduced by reducing the number of contacts. The distance one travels is immaterial in this. Limiting travel to 5km, in practice, produces a very big reduction in the number of contacts, thus reducing transmission, R0, and cases. That there are some longer distance journeys that do result in person to person contact events, is a very small factor in the overall spread of the virus, and insignificant in the huge number of contacts and so effectiveness of the 5km travel limit. The modelling is very clear and robust on this point, and the will be evident in the case numbers in the coming weeks.

Happydays2020

What is extraordinary is that we are trusting our economy and society to the same people who have mismanaged the health of our people for decades - Department of Health and the HSE.

bucketybuck

MOH wrote: »

But there's nothing going back to find where patient zero in the household got it. Restaurant? Gym? Shop? Kids in school? 80% of clusters in the last weekly cluster report originated at home. That's clearly ludicrous.

Is it schools? Is it pubs? Is it meat factories? Is it homes? Is it gyms? Is it shops? Is it clown college? Is it fairy rings?

The problem is that it isn't just any of those places, it is all of those places...

It is a very contagious virus that doesn't affect the vast majority of people that catch it, and so once here it is going to be everywhere. It is already everywhere. So, track and trace? Pump billions into that and what you will end up with is a system that simply tells you that people are catching it everywhere. Close the pubs and they get it in gyms. Close the shops and they get it in schools. Close the schools and they get it in sports. Close down the lot and you bankrupt your country.

What does this mean and why does it matter? It is another example of how the governments response is failing because it is based on incorrect core tenants, basically they are starting off on the wrong foot and so everything is wrong from that point on.

The governments starting point is to try and fight the virus, and everything they have do and have done has led from that premise. Stamp it out, find it, track it, defend against it, fight it.

A government starting from the core tenant of "Live with the virus" would act very differently. Unfortunately we are going to waste a year and throw our kids futures in the bin before finally being forced to understand that "fight the virus" was the wrong starting point.

WhiteMemento9

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

The only people getting conned are the people who actually care about others and have been trying to live life to help limit the spread and not end up in a situation where repeated lockdowns are necessary. Your posts here have shown over and over that you are part of a group of people who are at the route of the problem. That will never sink in for the likes of you because you have also repeatedly shown with your posts that you don't have two brain cells to rub together.



There is a reason that while this is the case we still have sharp increases in numbers. It is just a sad indictment of Irish society that we are incapable of showing common sense and need extremely tough rules to limit the spread for many people.

" the likes of you" ...."part of a group" FFS....can you see dublin from up there on your high horse......john lennon was part of a group...;)

MelbourneMan

Happydays2020 wrote: »

What is extraordinary is that we are trusting our economy and society to the same people who have mismanaged the health of our people for decades - Department of Health and the HSE.

If that is the case for decades, then surely it is the ordinary, not extraordinary ?

Happydays2020

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. I can explain how this does make sense. I have seen such confusion elsewhere as well, so you are not alone in not understanding the rationale.

The virus transmits by person to person contact. Transmission is reduced by reducing the number of contacts. The distance one travels is immaterial in this. Limiting travel to 5km, in practice, produces a very big reduction in the number of contacts, thus reducing transmission, R0, and cases. That there are some longer distance journeys that do result in person to person contact events, is a very small factor in the overall spread of the virus, and insignificant in the huge number of contacts and so effectiveness of the 5km travel limit. The modelling is very clear and robust on this point, and the will be evident in the case numbers in the coming weeks.

It depends. If you have a very densely populated area then you are keeping more people within that 5km limit. We saw this back in May. The modelling is not quite as robust as Tony would have you believe. I understand the logic but it is not "very clear or robust".

The key measures are social distance, avoiding crowded indoor places with poor ventilation and hand washing.

Ice Albatross

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

The only people getting conned are the people who actually care about others and have been trying to live life to help limit the spread and not end up in a situation where repeated lockdowns are necessary. Your posts here have shown over and over that you are part of a group of people who are at the route of the problem. That will never sink in for the likes of you because you have also repeatedly shown with your posts that you don't have two brain cells to rub together.



There is a reason that while this is the case we still have sharp increases in numbers. It is just a sad indictment of Irish society that we are incapable of showing common sense and need extremely tough rules to limit the spread for many people.

Every country in the world has seen an increase in cases despite some having huge restrictions. More an indictment of the human race than Irish people.



Not that cases rising anywhere is an indictment at all. No more than someone spreading flu last winter was an indictment on anyones character, can you imagine telling someone that went to work or socialised and spread the flu last winter was selfish and a killer?

bucketybuck

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

It is just a sad indictment of Irish society that we are incapable of showing common sense and need extremely tough rules to limit the spread for many people.

It is disturbing how similar all this is to religion for some people.

If a miracle happens, God did it. If a miracle doesn't happen its because you didn't have enough faith.

If the restrictions work it is because they were good ideas, if they fail it is because people didn't do enough...

Its horse****. The vast, vast majority of people are acting perfectly responsible in their daily lives. The virus isn't spreading because a statistically negligible number of people won a ****ing county final, it is spreading because it is a highly contagious virus in a modern society. We would be better served recognizing that fact instead of looking for scapegoats.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

What is extraordinary is that we are trusting our economy and society to the same people who have mismanaged the health of our people for decades - Department of Health and the HSE.

I do wonder what Ruth Morrisey would think about people putting faith in Tony Holohan.