Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Purple Mountain

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Not boring to parents of special needs children

Have you asked them?
Many children with special needs are already very vulnerable to health challenges. Do you mean to tell me that all these parents want their children back in a school building next week?
These children, through no fault of their own, mostly can't wear masks and need basic needs catered for like toileting, feeding etc.
Do you really think it's fair to ask a teacher or special needs assistant or care assistant to do that right now?

scouserstation

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah where does that say the state will provide them with an education? It requires them to get one, but with parent as the natural educator, the gets them off the hook for having to provide one.

The more you know

The Family and education section of the constitution is quite expansive, heres another one if that doesnt float your boat -
"The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation"

khalessi

scouserstation wrote: »

The Family and education section of the constitution is quite expansive, heres another one if that doesnt float your boat -
"The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation"

Important word there endeavour

Eoinbmw

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So the school has said this to you?

Its the system!
The school is now shut its part of the weekly schedule!
Been trying to point this out special schools are not the same as primary or secondary schools there is so much more to it!

khalessi

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Its the system!
The school is now shut its part of the weekly schedule!
Been trying to point this out special schools are not the same as primary or secondary schools there is so much more to it!

Yep it is multidisciplinary teams it is not the fault of teachers or SNAs

Eoinbmw

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Some parents have interesting posts too of course.

I think teachers get tired of the bitching they get on social media on an ongoing basis.

Contrary to popular belief, they are only human and the vast majority do their best.

There is never an excuse to be nasty about a persons appearance now is there really?
I dont hear Norma having ago about individuals dress sense inept as she may be!
It does nothing for your image thats for sure!

LuasSimon

Until teachers have 52 weeks holidays a year teachers will never be happy

Smacruairi

scouserstation wrote: »

T
"The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation"]

Yeah provide for, not provide. That means they will throw money at something and if it doesn't work they are covered by thr word "endeavour". They are providing remote learning in a pandemic. Thus they have endeavored. But by all means contact a high court solicitor.

mirrorwall14

I will leave a final thought here after that confirmation of every feeling I have for this disgrace of a minister

I know no teacher who would prefer to be a teaching online. Not one. I know of no teacher who would have been unreasonable in organising the LCs to be the first back in. As soon as is possible. I know of no teacher or parent or student, who would have objected if she had bothered to consult and just wait, even a week, until we were sure the situation was stable.

I know of no SEN teacher or SNA or worker involved in special education who does not realise that these students need some school. However, again, this minister did not bother to discuss what might actually be workable, or address the concerns of all parties or to try and provide some respite to these parents and students. She just ploughed on.

And has now outright lied, multiple times, on national TV about the advice given to her

For example, she could have said, I would really like to keep the SEN sector students and families receiving some relief. Could we address your concerns? Could we half the numbers? Could we consult with parents as to what they actually need? Some would not want to send them in, others will, others might want online, can we work with them to provide some relief?

But no. She wanted to keep the schools open. At all costs. Even for the most medically vulnerable of our students.

For example, she could have said, next Wednesday we will review bringing the LCs back on Monday 18th on a condensed timetable. No one would have objected. Schools could have quietly gotten on with planning for this once they got the whole school moved online for a week. We would have been ready. And the whole country would have seen what the situation was.

But no. She wanted her moment of glory, keeping the schools open

She and she alone and her cabinet ministers created this stand off.
It is THEIR fault that this has come to pass. Not parents. Not students. Not teachers. Not anyone involved in schools.

Eoinbmw

khalessi wrote: »

Yep it is multidisciplinary teams it is not the fault of teachers or SNAs

Im not attacking you im upset about school closures and the complete lack of alternatives provided for the children who attend!
I never blamed teachers or snas?
Im a caretaker in a primary school myself!

Wombatman

Brainwave. Move all old and venerable to these magic 'safe school' havens. Covid problem solved. No need for vaccines. Next....

Queried

It just annoys me so much that plans for the worst case scenario (ie what's happening at the minute) could have been in the making for the past 6 months at the very least.

I do believe that it is a huge risk to run any class as we were running classes before the Christmas break. I can see why staff are worried for their health and their pupils health. A relative of mine is an SNA and works with children who have very serious underlying issues and was worried sick about the kids. I can also see why parents of children with additional needs are especially distraught at schools being closed. It's infuriating to me that no provisions or supports have been put in place for this scenario, out of pure stubbornness and will to keep the schools open regardless of health and safety risks.

I'm a teacher myself (mainstream senior primary) and I do think for the moment, while cases are still sky high it is best schools close. The collapse of the test and trace system was the main concern for me. However I think the way things have been handled leave a lot to be desired. I feel somewhat that a "divide and conquer" approach has been adopted by the government; force unions to take a stand and then the school staff look like the bad guys. Not saying that all teachers are perfect but most care so much about the pupils in their care and will do everything they can to support pupils and their families. We kept up assignments on our online platforms throughout the first term so that pupils remain familiar with it and can use it independently now (I do have a senior class however). We are definitely more prepared for remote teaching than we were last March.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a sh*t situation to be in and nobody wants this, but the teachers I know will do everything they can to make remote teaching and learning as effective and easy as possible for pupils and families.

Anyway, if anyone needs any help with remote learning, please feel free to PM me. I've taught 5th and 6th class for the last 9 years so that would be my "speciality" but am more than happy to help if I can.

Sorry for long post. Brain going mad all day :pac:

scouserstation

Smacruairi wrote: »

scouserstation wrote: »

T
"The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation"]

Yeah provide for, not provide. That means they will throw money at something and if it doesn't work they are covered by thr word "endeavour". They are providing remote learning in a pandemic. Thus they have endeavored. But by all means contact a high court solicitor.

There will be no need for court cases, I reckon there is still another couple of u-turns left in this government, if tonights knee jerk reaction is anything to go by

downthemiddle

LuasSimon wrote: »

Until teachers have 52 weeks holidays a year teachers will never be happy

That's called retirement Simon.

frank8211

Endintheclowns wrote: »

Utterly deluded

If they say it in every sentence even though the question isnt asked then it will be counter productive and more people will come to smelll that its actuallly completely untrue!!!!!

frank8211

C__MC wrote: »

We needed Vincent brown on her tonight
Tame interview

Indeed, or Pat Kenny or Sean ORourke or Marian RIP. Kenny put Holohan under pressure earlier by probing the 'schools safe' lie

ShamoBuc

Eoinbmw wrote: »

There is never an excuse to be nasty about a persons appearance now is there really?
I dont hear Norma having ago about individuals dress sense inept as she may be!
It does nothing for your image thats for sure!

Dress sense? I only heard Norma call the unions liars. That's much better I suppose.

Stateofyou

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Dress sense? I only heard Norma call the unions liars. That's much better I suppose.

Personally, I think someone speaking to a mod (or anyone) like the lad up there is the real low point.

St.Spodo

Very relieved to not be going in next week. Now that that has been dealt with, serious questions need to be asked as to how that decision could have possibly been made without consultation with the people who were expected to deliver the teaching and special needs assistance and, more importantly, how we ended up in a siutation where 10 months into a pandemic there is no plan in place for remote learning.

Spanish Eyes

Very heated here.

What galls me is the absolute certainty from Gov yesterday, and now a complete rowback 24 hours later re LC.

I feel for those with Special Needs kids , have a nephew myself. But his parents are accepting for the duration. They feel a bit safer for everyone in their household difficult as it is.

ShamoBuc

Stateofyou wrote: »

Personally, I think someone speaking to a mod (or anyone) like the lad up there is the real low point.

In essence, there are several low points that can be appreciated but they will differ, depending on your viewpoint. As we have seen, this issue has many viewpoints as it effects so many posters, but in many different ways.

teachinggal123

St.Spodo wrote: »

... how we ended up in a siutation where 10 months into a pandemic there is no plan in place for remote learning ...

This is the real disgrace here. Absolutely shocking.

And I'll take a large bet with anyone here the the LC exams wont go ahead this year.

teachinggal123

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

And has now outright lied, multiple times, on national TV about the advice given to her

Don't take this as a personal attack but please be very careful about posting accusations like this (as they could come back to bite you/Boards in the ass).

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

This is the real disgrace here. Absolutely shocking.

And I'll take a large bet with anyone here the the LC exams wont go ahead this year.

I sincerely hopeyou are wrong.

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Don't take this as a personal attack but please be very careful about posting accusations like this (as they could come back to bite you/Boards in the ass).

Its not a baseless accusation. There is proof.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1347298669821833219?s=19

mirrorwall14

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Don't take this as a personal attack but please be very careful about posting accusations like this (as they could come back to bite you/Boards in the ass).

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1347298717112664074?s=20

She contradicted the Taoiseach himself

teachinggal123

History Queen wrote: »

I sincerely hopeyou are wrong.

What do you think yourself? (About the LC going ahead as planned this year)

Queried

Someone sent me a message via PM and it doesn't seem to be sending, re advice for remote learning. If you see this could you let me know if it came through? Many thanks.

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

What do you think yourself? (About the LC going ahead as planned this year)

I think it should go ahead. There are 6 months to go. Most teachers in my school are almost there or thereabouts where they would be in the course in a normal year (maths department outlier here but I think their course is particularly long, someone might correct me on that). Most people think lack of extra curricular/ class trips etc is the difference.

Predicted grades were a shambles and completely undermine our system. This cohort have less to be measured on than before in terms of formal exam (i posted about this a few days ago).

Going forward access to education shouldbe prioritised by this I mean buy laptops and mobile bb dongles if need be to make sure all students can access online lessons.

As soon as there is an opportunity schools should be opened on a phased basis starting with 6th years. Cohort split in two and working week in/week athome. During week at home they are working on projects/exam papers etc, during week in school focus should be on new material/practicals etc. And introduce other year groups in a staggered fashion also.

All above just in relation to my opinion on LC

Eoinbmw

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Dress sense? I only heard Norma call the unions liars. That's much better I suppose.

Im not defending her in any way im just trying to keep this topic on topic!
Grow up!