Schools closed until February? (part 3)

GT89

eviltwin wrote: »

Give over. I’m not a teacher, I am someone who has worked through COVID with all the additional stress and risk. However my employer has bent over backwards to ensure my safety and that of our clients. We have changed work practices, invested in safety measures, we have weekly supervision with a counselling service, weekly check ins with management, plenty of PPE.......

My job doesn’t involve working in one space with multiple people all day and yet my safety is the priority as it should be. What do teachers have? I’m a parent and I’m very relieved that schools are staying closed. Yes it’s a pain because I’m going to somehow have to work home school around my normal working week but at least my child is safe. The risk is just too great for things to continue as they are. Education is important but health matters more.

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

jimmytwotimes 2013

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

Thanks for that Doctor GT89

Queried

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

I can't speak for secondary schools as that's not my area but special schools would just be returning to what was in place before Christmas as everyone would be in and no extra staff or extra room to facilitate social distancing.

GT89

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Thanks for that Doctor GT89

Could you please remind of how many children died of cv19 in Ireland?

khalessi

GT89 wrote: »

Could you please remind of how many children died of cv19 in Ireland?

Well there are 2 in ICU at the minute, why do you need a death as proof, surely we should be trying to prevent this

History Queen

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

How would it have allowed adequate social distancing?

Also schools aren't just occupied by children.

Also Covid is a transmissible disease.

SpacialNeeds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqAmfTwLN4

jimmytwotimes 2013

GT89 wrote: »

Could you please remind of how many children died of cv19 in Ireland?

You're setting the bar high I see.

GT89

History Queen wrote: »

How would it have allowed adequate social distancing?

Also schools aren't just occupied by children.

Also Covid is a transmissible disease.

Because you could spread out 6th year classes amongst numerous classrooms with students 2m apart or use sports halls or the like

History Queen

GT89 wrote: »

Because you could spread out 6th year classes amongst numerous classrooms with students 2m apart or use sports halls or the like

And who will supervise them?

GT89

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

You're setting the bar high I see.

It's pretty much widely accepted that children are of low risk of catching covid 19

jimmytwotimes 2013

GT89 wrote: »

It's pretty much widely accepted that children are of low risk of catching covid 19

Are 18 year old Leaving Certs children?

Can they pass it on at all to an older, more vulnerable family member?

Is the new UK strain more prevalent in 'children' than previous most common strain? Is it more infectious? Is it too early to take a chance on it as its pushing the R number more than we've seen before? Are hospitals already under severe pressure and now isn't the time to be taking a chance?

Still tho, let's go back in on 'pretty much'

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

The risk of those children spreading it is anything but minimal.

Social distancing is not adequate for the new strain. Ventilation is greatly important. Virologists have a pain in the collective jaw explaining this.

But I suppose you'd be happy to have every window and door in the place open and if the students end up like Ötzi, so be it.

John O.Groats

GT89 wrote: »

It's pretty much widely accepted that children are of low risk of catching covid 19

Really? So how come there are a number of children in ICU at the moment? This new strain of the virus has been shown to be far more infectious among children and young adults for that matter than the previous one is /was.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

And who will supervise them?

God damn pesky details.

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The risk of those children spreading it is anything but minimal.

Social distancing is not adequate for the new strain. Ventilation is greatly important. Virologists have a pain in the collective jaw explaining this.

But I suppose you'd be happy to have every window and door in the place open and if the students end up like Ötzi, so be it.

So if schools are deemed unsafe even with social distancing why is public transport and essential retail allowed to continue?

khalessi

GT89 wrote: »

So if schools are deemed unsafe even with social distancing why is public transport and essential retail allowed to continue?

Eammon Ryan was asked about public transport in relation to schools and it never even entered his thoughts he was caught unawares and at the moment buses are at 25% capacity except for school buses which are full


ETA re retail, we need food but masks are required in shops, social distancing, max limits in some shops and stop and go before entering shops.

...Ghost...

GT89 wrote: »

It's pretty much widely accepted that children are of low risk of catching covid 19

The only widely accepted thing is that children are far more likely to show no symptoms. I consider that to be dangerous, as they can spread it without anyone knowing.

GT89 wrote: »

So if schools are deemed unsafe even with social distancing why is public transport and essential retail allowed to continue?

I can't speak for public transport, but the essential retail thing...well, we all need to be able to buy food.

BonsaiKitten

History Queen wrote: »

And who will supervise them?

All the other teachers of course. Who will also clone themselves and simultaneously teach the classes they're actually timetabled to teach - or spend additional hours of their own time with those kids after school. Anything else will be deemed lazy, workshy, an insult to the nurses, stick 'em on the PUP yadda yadda.

Murple

GT89 wrote: »

Could you please remind of how many children died of cv19 in Ireland?

The problem is not that everyone who gets Covid is going to die. The problem is that everyone who gets Covid is highly likely to pass it on to someone else. The more people that get it, the more it will spread. The more it spreads, the higher the chance that our hospitals will be overwhelmed and that is a danger to everyone. At the moment, 96 ICU beds in the country are occupied by Covid patients. What happens the person who has a stroke, brain aneurysm, serious car accident, heart attack etc and needs care in an ICU bed?

Murple

GT89 wrote: »

So if schools are deemed unsafe even with social distancing why is public transport and essential retail allowed to continue?

Social distancing is near impossible in most schools, despite what various ministers would have you believe.
Public transport is continuing at 25% capacity to enable people to make essential journeys e.g. nurse getting to work, person going to care for relative etc. Essential retail is continuing because it’s, well, essential! Last time I checked though I haven’t seen any shop the size of your average classroom allow 25-30 people in at once and keep them there for several hours.

GT89

Murple wrote: »

Social distancing is near impossible in most schools, despite what various ministers would have you believe.
Public transport is continuing at 25% capacity to enable people to make essential journeys e.g. nurse getting to work, person going to care for relative etc. Essential retail is continuing because it’s, well, essential! Last time I checked though I haven’t seen any shop the size of your average classroom allow 25-30 people in at once and keep them there for several hours.

I wasn't talking about having schools operating at 100% capacity. I can't see rhe harm having leaving cert students in with social distancing of 2m. I agree 30 kids in a classroom would be risky but what's wrong with having say 7 or 8 in a class each 2m apart wearing face coverings by only having leaving cert students in you could do that.

Public transport is actually deemed safe enough because of social distancing.

picturehangup

I am a teacher in the secondary sector who has contracted covid, probably from school, at 54 years of age, asthmatic and high BP.
My husband has recovered from thyroid cancer, and has recently undergone surgery to remove part of his prostate gland.
My son suffers from autism/asd and has certain requirements. I also have my 82 yr old mum living with me currently.
Miraculously, my family have escaped C19.
I would not wish this disease on my worst enemy, hence I am delighted with the announcement from ASTI today.
Nobody knows what others are going through at this time, and we need to be good to one another.
These are not ordinary times, and they demand an extraordinary response.

as_mo_bhosca

GT89 wrote: »

I wasn't talking about having schools operating at 100% capacity. I can't see rhe harm having leaving cert students in with social distancing of 2m. I agree 30 kids in a classroom would be risky but what's wrong with having say 7 or 8 in a class each 2m apart wearing face coverings by only having leaving cert students in you could do that.

Public transport is actually deemed safe enough because of social distancing.

Where are you getting all these extra teachers to cover these 3 or 4 extra classes per original class?

khalessi

picturehangup wrote: »

I am a teacher in the secondary sector who has contracted covid, probably from school, at 54 years of age, asthmatic and high BP.
My husband has recovered from thyroid cancer, and has recently undergone surgery to remove part of his prostate gland.
My son suffers from autism/asd and has certain requirements. I also have my 82 yr old mum living with me currently.
Miraculously, my family have escaped C19.
I would not wish this disease on my worst enemy, hence I am delighted with the announcement from ASTI today.
Nobody knows what others are going through at this time, and we need to be good to one another.
These are not ordinary times, and they demand an extraordinary response.

I hope you make a good speedy recovery and wish a good recovery to your husband.

amacca

GT89 wrote: »

I agree 30 kids in a classroom would be risky but what's wrong with having say 7 or 8 in a class each 2m apart wearing face coverings by only having leaving cert students in you could do that.

Well just on the practical side of things without getting into whether it's a good idea or the right thing to do

You would need to hire more teachers for one thing I presume

Before if it was one teaching 30 ..now you would need at least 4 teaching 7/8 each maybe

Might not be enough of each type of subject teacher in the school particularly the minority subjects.. ....you might get to do it with English and maths maybe but thrn there woukd be a good bit of extra planning so all coordinate and deliver the same from the same point the class of 30 left off so that's a lot of extra teachers to be hired......sally the History and Cspe teachern8snt going to be able to double up as a LC chemistry teacher as it ain't her specialization....if that situation happens even 6 or 7 times in a medium sized school then you have 6/7 extra heads per school ........ (I personally think.you might end up needing a lot more than 6/7 extra bodies 8n some places and crucially they woukd have to be qualified in those subjects because the 6or7 that get the teacher that's put of their depth at a subject (if they dont get one qualified in the subjects are going to kick up an unholy stink

TLDR Could get messy and expensive when you go to employ new (to the school at least) teachers and of course thats more people mixing + could need a prohibitively large amount of new teachers employed if you want more than just a babysitter for the 6/7 in each classroom







I

NetChat101

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

- not with the new strain of Covid
- not with numbers skyrocketing since Christmas
- it does the opposite of what the Government says they want, ie reduce mobility

The HorsesMouth

GT89 wrote: »

The proposal to keep schools open for 6th years and children with special needs would've allowed adequate social distancing. The risk to children from cv19 is minimal.

Do you know how a special school works? You are talking about children who need nappies changed everyday, there is aggressive behaviour, spitting, there are children who are aversive to water or anything on there hands, children who need you to put on there coat for them, who need you to help them clean after the toilet...the list is endless. There is NO social distancing in special schools and anyone involved directly in them understands this and worked regardless all the way through September to December.
Not to mention the school transport situation where in the school I'm aware of children come from 3 different counties, mix with other children in different "pods" on the buses and the bus escorts who also cannot social distance in any way and then come into their own classroom and mix with 5 staff and 6 other children.
Now the things I can think of that would have helped the situation and maybe could get them back in is the following:
-Parents drop them to school directly or organise bus transport and bus escorts for each child separately.
-Halve the day for each student so half come in in morning and half come in in afternoon
-Proper PPE given to SNAs involved in intimate care.
-Start back on on Monday 18th when all the above could have been organised or put in place

But no Norma had to bull on without any interaction with unions, teachers or SNAs who probably would have told her these things and maybe something could been agreed on. It was all or nothing which nobody involved in special schools could have ever said was safe in a time like this.

And as a last point..those saying put them on the PUP...I'd say loads of SNAs would be delighted as many earn less than 350 a week!

History Queen

Pascal O'Donoghue on Radio1 claiming teachers unions were consulted regarding the reopening of schools. The blame game is well and truly on.

plodder

Haven't been reading the thread lately, so I don't know if been discussed, but what about pushing the LC back a couple of months?

... And offer vaccine to all teachers before schools re-open?