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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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    #5042
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    Meh, never mind anxieties or teacher fatigue, they will struggle on. I think at this stage there isn't a single teacher out there that knows they are treated as non essential workers in what has been deemed the most essential service.

    It was always a sound idea to potentially help prevent the spread of the disease into the vulnerable population.

    That fact never changed, it just got lost in the hatred.

    What workplaces who were essential throughout the pandemic have had extra time off given at Christmas?


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    #5043
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,683 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What workplaces who were essential throughout the pandemic have had extra time off given at Christmas?

    What other workplaces constitute 20% of the population?


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    #5044
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What workplaces who were essential throughout the pandemic have had extra time off given at Christmas?

    It would appear to be ones in Germany.


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    #5045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    What other workplaces constitute 20% of the population?

    Why does that make a difference? Are other groups not fatigued and anxious?


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    #5046
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    It would appear to be ones in Germany.

    Healthcare, essential services, manufacturing, food processing?


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    #5047
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,683 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why does that make a difference? Are other groups not fatigued and anxious?

    I covered that, from someone who had no problem with it in principle you have immediately descended into the feckless teachers loads of people are anxious nonsense.

    Boggles wrote: »
    Meh, never mind anxieties or teacher fatigue, they will struggle on.


    The difference is 1 million people indoors.
    Boggles wrote: »
    It was always a sound idea to potentially help prevent the spread of the disease into the vulnerable population.
    Boggles wrote: »
    That fact never changed, it just got lost in the hatred.

    I imagine the above point will be underlined further in the next few hours on here.


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    #5048
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    If there is one thing I can't bear since I've been following this thread, it is posters discussing other posters among themselves. It is straight out of the mean girls school yard bullying rulebook and it is really uncomfortable to watch going on. I wish people would address posters directly rather than this ugly, imo, behaviour.

    Lillyfae, you liked this post, and after having posted the below yourself? If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is.
    Originally Posted by Lillyfae View Post
    ...I think the problem in this thread is that some of the teachers posting are having a very hard time trying to see where other people are coming from. They're also talking out of both sides of their mouths sometimes. For example, they emphasized that the union rep who suggested that teachers were stressed and should have 2 extra days off had not consulted union members, but now are asking why it's such a bad idea. We're all stressed, it's just extra, unplanned time off will cause logistical problems for a large section of society and in light of that, it's not a suggestion that was welcome. It's the same with the "we don't want the schools closed" argument. "We don't want them closed, but here's why they should be closed"


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    #5049
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    It would appear to be ones in Germany.

    Infections in Germany are going up. Merkel is desperate to tighten up social distancing rules, the last time state governments went against her and refused stricter rules. This is not thank you to essential services but a plea to limit the Infections. Schools could stay closed in January.


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    #5050
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    I covered that, from someone who had no problem with it in principle you have immediately descended into the feckless teachers loads of people are anxious nonsense.

    Trying to put words into peoples mouths again. I never said anything against teachers, I said are others not experiencing the same challenges?


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    #5051
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I'll make it even clearer for you. I am not responsible for who thanks my posts but the responsibility would be mine if I discussed other posters with my 'gang'. That's not how grown ups are supposed to behave.

    It seems if you dont accept the narrative that schools are the most dangerous place to be at the moment and education workers are the most put upon group you are immediately some rabid teacher hater.


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    #5052
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What workplaces who were essential throughout the pandemic have had extra time off given at Christmas?

    Genuine question, what other workplace do people sit in a room with 30 other people not socially distant and not wearing masks?

    Is there actually another workplace in that scenario?

    Genuine question btw.


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    #5053
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,683 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Trying to put words into peoples mouths again. I never said anything against teachers, I said are others not experiencing the same challenges?

    I clearly didn't, I all ready pointed out to you now twice, I have very little interest in peoples feelings. (I do but in this instance it's not the most important thing).

    You are trying to introduce whataboutery into the discussion.

    But if you like if we reduce the spread of the virus into the vulnerable population that helps other essential services.


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    #5054
    KerryConnor
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭KerryConnor


    Yes that was the point in ireland too. Make people a lot more at ease if they could avoid contacts more than 5 or 6 days before meeting grandparents as that's the length of time it takes majority of symptoms to appear.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    Infections in Germany are going up. Merkel is desperate to tighten up social distancing rules, the last time state governments went against her and refused stricter rules. This is not thank you to essential services but a plea to limit the Infections. Schools could stay closed in January.


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    #5055
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    I clearly didn't, I all ready pointed out to you now twice, I have very little interest in peoples feelings. (I do but in this instance it's not the most important thing).

    You are trying to introduce whataboutery into the discussion.

    But if you like if we reduce the spread of the virus into the vulnerable population that helps other essential services.

    You may have seen my initial response on this topic
    Is everything in Germany so much better than Ireland that even through their current case level is 4x ours we believe we should be currently doing the exact same thing? When we were at 300 cases per hundred thousand kids were not supposed to visit their grandparents. Now we are at 75 and its a different assessment.

    We are in a much better situation which is why such measures are not as necessary here as in Germany for example as the risk is so much lower, currently.

    It was you who brought up fatigue and anxiety among teachers, and all I did is point out that there are other groups who equally face the same challenges.


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    #5056
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    KerryConnor wrote: »
    Yes that was the point in ireland too. Make people a lot more at ease if they could avoid contacts more than 5 or 6 days before meeting grandparents as that's the length of time it takes majority of symptoms to appear.

    Agreed but you have to understand the mindset of many on here.

    What you are saying makes sense in an overall context of Coronavirus in this country and fight against it but because teachers would benefit from such a move anything as such that helps the fight against the virus should be dismissed.

    Some on here would rail against the vaccine rollout if it meant teachers got an extra day off!


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    #5057
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the kelt wrote: »
    Agreed but you have to understand the mindset of many on here.

    What you are saying makes sense in an overall context of Coronavirus in this country and fight against it but because teachers would benefit from such a move anything as such that helps the fight against the virus should be dismissed.

    Some on here would rail against the vaccine rollout if it meant teachers got an extra day off!

    It has NOTHING to do with teachers getting a day off. It has everything to do with families being under enough pressure, without having to reschedule things that they have going on to facilitate it.


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    #5058
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,683 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We are in a much better situation which is why such measures are not as necessary here as in Germany for example as the risk is so much lower, currently.

    Nope, not a reason not to do it. The reason we have been as successful has we have been is we look to the future and not base decisions on the current.

    Right now there is a "campaign" to keep your contacts to a minimum before Christmas, completely undermined by the fact that their is a million+ indoors where the highest risk of infection is.

    Don't dare go near Mary's house but the kids get to be contacts of 100s of others.

    A lot of people will say with some justification, that is fúcking daft.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It was you who brought up fatigue and anxiety among teachers, and all I did is point out that there are other groups who equally face the same challenges.

    3rd time.

    I dismissed fatigue as the reason to do it.


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    #5059
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    It has NOTHING to do with teachers getting a day off. It has everything to do with families being under enough pressure, without having to reschedule things that they have going on to facilitate it.

    Hmmmm

    Everyone in the entire country has had to reschedule and deal with pressure for the last 9 months because of a pandemic.

    Yet the only thing that seems to get you bent out of shape is those situations where teachers might get a day off!


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    #5060
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    KerryConnor wrote: »
    Yes that was the point in ireland too. Make people a lot more at ease if they could avoid contacts more than 5 or 6 days before meeting grandparents as that's the length of time it takes majority of symptoms to appear.

    Go and compare the numbers in Ireland and Germany and then we can discuss what should be done. Their death rate is at the moment higher than in spring.

    The comparisons with countries are fine but I not when they are made on basis of one sentence you read on social media.


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    #5061
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    Nope, not a reason not to do it. The reason we have been as successful has we have been is we look to the future and not base decisions on the current.

    Right now there is a "campaign" to keep your contacts to a minimum before Christmas, completely undermined by the fact that their is a million+ indoors where the highest risk of infection is.

    Don't dare go near Mary's house but the kids get to be contacts of 100s of others.

    A lot of people will say with some justification, that is fúcking daft.



    3rd time.

    I dismissed fatigue as the reason to do it.

    Fair enough, I read your post as in addition to fatigue and anxiety as reasons not excluding but accept on re reading that’s not what you were saying.


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    #5062
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the kelt wrote: »
    Hmmmm

    Everyone in the entire country has had to reschedule and deal with pressure for the last 9 months because of a pandemic.

    Yet the only thing that seems to get you bent out of shape is those situations where teachers might get a day off!

    Ok, picture this. A single parent with 2 school children, who works in a supermarket while their children are at school. Possibly from another country, so no family around to help out. They will have to take vacation or unpaid leave, or worse, risk losing their job because they have a zero hour contract. Another example. 2 nurses, flat out since March, rosters planned well in advance. Same situation, except a quarter of their colleagues are out on Covid related leave. What do you think these people are supposed to do?


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    #5063
    lulublue22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Go and compare the numbers in Ireland and Germany and then we can discuss what should be done. Their death rate is at the moment higher than in spring.

    So we should only act when we are at the point were the death rate is extremely high - higher than the first wave rather than working to prevent a surge in Jan ?

    It makes no odds to me the last 2 days are my fav anyhow great atmosphere and craic. However if the gov were serious about reducing / minimising contacts prior to xmas than it does make sense.


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    #5064
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Ok, picture this. A single parent with 2 school children, who works in a supermarket while their children are at school. Possibly from another country, so no family around to help out. They will have to take vacation or unpaid leave. Another example. 2 nurses, flat out since March, rosters planned well in advance. Same situation, except a quarter of their colleagues are out on Covid related leave. What do you think these people are supposed to do?

    What they done before earlier in the year but only for 2 or 3 days rather than months!

    We're talking about extending the school holidays by a couple of days to help curb the virus in the run up to Christmas the one time of the year where people will be visiting elderly relatives etc.

    You know the logical thing, reducing by a few days a situation where people are in a room with 30 unmasked other humans all talking laughing etc. Ye know the stuff Tony H keeps telling us not to do!

    Maybe they should insist schools are open and teachers have to attend but pupils dont, then im sure there are many here who would think its a great idea!


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    #5065
    SusanC10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Ok, picture this. A single parent with 2 school children, who works in a supermarket while their children are at school. Possibly from another country, so no family around to help out. They will have to take vacation or unpaid leave, or worse, risk losing their job because they have a zero hour contract. Another example. 2 nurses, flat out since March, rosters planned well in advance. Same situation, except a quarter of their colleagues are out on Covid related leave. What do you think these people are supposed to do?

    What do these examples do if their child develops Covid-like symptoms or is a close contact ? Or has a stomach bug or anything else that means that they can't go to school?


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    #5066
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Go and compare the numbers in Ireland and Germany and then we can discuss what should be done. Their death rate is at the moment higher than in spring.

    The comparisons with countries are fine but I not when they are made on basis of one sentence you read on social media.

    So we should only do something reactive rather than proactive in the fight against the virus??

    Take a few days off now, no cant do that! Lets wait till more people are dying then we might do it.

    Yep, makes sense!


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    #5067
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    What do these examples do if their child develops Covid-like symptoms or is a close contact ? Or has a stomach bug or anything else that means that they can't go to school?

    In the case of the nurses, you would think that there is leave for special cases such as this- caring for family during illness- I'm not familiar with public sector contracts but I believe it's there. In the case of the supermarket worker, this has happened to them already and they used up the good graces of their employer.

    In the beginning of all this, everyone was in the same boat re: it was a bit of a mess. Now that the pandemic is being managed better, it's not expected that large sections of society should be forced to stay home all at the same time.


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    #5068
    SusanC10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/no-choirs-no-indoor-music-no-parents-schools-get-advice-on-celebrating-christmas-1.4432776

    Does anyone have the link to this advice for Schools ?
    I can't seem to find it on the DES website.


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    #5069
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    the kelt wrote: »
    What they done before earlier in the year but only for 2 or 3 days rather than months!

    We're talking about extending the school holidays by a couple of days to help curb the virus in the run up to Christmas the one time of the year where people will be visiting elderly relatives etc.

    You know the logical thing, reducing by a few days a situation where people are in a room with 30 unmasked other humans all talking laughing etc. Ye know the stuff Tony H keeps telling us not to do!

    Maybe they should insist schools are open and teachers have to attend but pupils dont, then im sure there are many here who would think its a great idea!


    Makes perfect sense. If back when moving the holidays was first mentioned, people could see past teachers might get a day off, the whole country could have got on board with a plan like have the holidays two weeks before Christmas day instead of the 2 weeks after Christmas day.


    Would have been plenty of time to plan. Contingencies could also have been put in place for people who werent flexible. But no. People reacted in their usual fashion and now here we are.


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    #5070
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/no-choirs-no-indoor-music-no-parents-schools-get-advice-on-celebrating-christmas-1.4432776

    Does anyone have the link to this advice for Schools ?
    I can't seem to find it on the DES website.

    I find it frightening that anyone in education had to be reminded not to have Christmas celebrations/concerts.


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    #5071
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I find it frightening that anyone in education had to be reminded not to have Christmas celebrations/concerts.

    One class out of each year group in my school asked to perform one song for video, teachers of my year group refused due to risks and other advice. Kids school advised kids not to hand out cards this year in school instead make a card and stick it up in class.


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