Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

People refer to many incorrect things in this thread so I don't accept that as any kind of reference. People quote things here without references very frequently- I've done it myself to my detriment!

Wow, okay. So this is when it gets weird for you being someone who lives in another country who's children aren't in this school system yet you're more active than most on this thread. You can easily google the news people have referred to on this thread, they weren't incorrect. If you lived here you'd know about it...

the kelt

meeeeh wrote: »

No in my opinion it wouldn't make any difference. However it is just opinion like yours and completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that among all recommendations Nphet made and government ignored and two extra days off were not on the list.

The reason I focused on just one point is because it was hysterical nonsense that has nothing to do with the situation people have to deal with. Not every argument can be dismissed with 'but everybody hates teachers'. It ignores valid concerns people have. It might not affect you but not everyone is like you.

As for my personal situation as it happens I have to be in work but as I said it's not an issue because kids would be with their grandmother. You can just as well take an example of butcher selling turkeys. Should they close two days early too?

Thats fair enough. You could be right, it might make no difference. For me NPHET and the government speak out of both side of their mouth when it comes to schools and its safety. If schools are as safe as is being claimed, it flies in the face of the other situations NPHET tell us isnt. Either schools arent as safe as is being claimed or they are and other situations should be deemed safe also.

Well no not really in regards to butchers

Im pretty sure when you look at the numbers we have more students and teachers in our population etc than we have butchers for example

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

Are butchers spending 6 hours a day with 30+ people in a closed, most likely an unventilated space where proper social distancing is impossible?

No but they might need to mind their kids if teachers aren't.

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

No but they might need to mind their kids if teachers aren't.

Teachers arent childminders.

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

Teachers arent childminders.

Oh bravo. The usual bs response.

Schools are part of society, things are planned around school and when people need time off. You just can't see it because you don't work and it doesn't affect you.

JimmyVik

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh bravo. The usual bs.

You walked into that one

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's a guideline, not a target. Personal responsibility is being emphasized on the part of the government. Where have DES and Minister for education said it's going to be a shítshow? On this thread??

Also, you're misquoting me again. I said the government, not the DES and Minister for education (referring to expecting a huge amount of cases post Christmas). Please read my posts and quote me properly.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

Wow, okay. So this is when it gets weird for you being someone who lives in another country who's children aren't in this school system yet you're more active than most on this thread. You can easily google the news people have referred to on this thread, they weren't incorrect. If you lived here you'd know about it...

I'm on leave already actually, having only been able to take a total of 5 days throughout the pandemic because of workload. My industry has been slammed with work, 15 hour days haven't been off the table at times.

Added to that, my whole family live in Ireland so what happens there directly affects my ability to come back. Also, members of my family and many of my friends are teachers in Ireland. Hence my interest in the situation.

meeeeh

JimmyVik wrote: »

You walked into that one

I didn't, I was waiting for that one since I replied to the kelt. But even he decided not to stick to the cliches.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I pretty sure we have a higher death rate overall than Germany. As crass as it sounds we can't really be declaring winners and losers in pandemic management until it's over.

But anyway.

Countries have to play to their strengths and more importantly their weakness, when it comes to a balance of overwhelming health care versus the economy.

Current situation, its an evolving picture. What happened in March and April has no bearing on the current picture. Germany is at the limit of the health system capacity

https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-hospitals-battle-covid-with-stretched-supply-lines/a-55826928

Interesting quote from the article

"ICU personnel have been stretched thin for years. We have far too few qualified nurses,"

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Are butchers spending 6 hours a day with 30+ people in a closed, most likely an unventilated space where proper social distancing is impossible?

My secondary school age daughter is in classrooms every day with all the windows open and they aren't allowed to wear coats or gloves. So the classrooms are ventilated. She might get pneumonia but at least she won't get COVID.

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh bravo. The usual bs response.

Schools are part of society, things are planned around school and when people need time off. You just can't see it because you don't work and it doesn't affect you.

And so... let's PLAN for them, right? Not leave things last minute when they've predicted for a while now numbers will be worse after Christmas when people will need to be visiting friends and family as allowed.

What do you know about what affects me personally? I don't work? :pac::pac::pac: LOL. You do know what they say about people who assume...

SusanC10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My secondary school age daughter is in classrooms every day with all the windows open and they aren't allowed to wear coats or gloves. So the classrooms are ventilated. She might get pneumonia but at least she won't get COVID.

Why aren't they allowed to wear coats ?
We got an email from our Secondary School saying that the kids should wear layers plus coats if necessary.

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

What do you know about what affects me personally? I don't work? :pac::pac::pac: LOL. You do know what they say about people who assume...

Apologies I mistook SusanC10's response for yours.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm on leave already actually, having only been able to take a total of 5 days throughout the pandemic because of workload. My industry has been slammed with work, 15 hour days haven't been off the table at times.

Added to that, my whole family live in Ireland so what happens there directly affects my ability to come back. Also, members of my family and many of my friends are teachers in Ireland. Hence my interest in the situation.

So your family lives here, you don't and so you aren't in tune with the news here. That is the only point that was made. No one is questioning your interest. :rolleyes:

What your leave and work schedule has to do with anything is anyone's guess.

JDD

Stateofyou wrote: »

And what about teachers? They have families to go to and children of their own as well. Is that not also the point. Why would teachers organise through the union, as they can't do right in some eyes, ever. They would only be vilified. I have seen (and signed) a petition by parents to close schools early though. Doubt it will go anywhere.

I don't see why parents are petitioning for the school to close early when it is perfectly open to them to take their children out early if they want to. Perhaps they are petitioning on behalf of the teachers. Fair enough if so, but I do hope they surveyed all the parents, as there may well have been a few where both parents work outside the home and would have been put in a very awkward position. Those parents tend not be closely involved with Parents Associations and school Whats App groups.

The teachers' union would not have been villified if they had said that they wished for schools to close early before christmas, and the days would have been made up after christmas or at easter. If they had put that forward, it would have been perfectly acceptable. Awkward for some parents to get emergency childcare, but a reasonable suggestion overall.

However, they made the mistake of framing it as extra holidays for exhausted teachers. Teachers may well be exhausted - but the point of looking for the extra days before Christmas was for self isolation purposes, not recuperation days. And there's so many other sectors of society that are more exhausted then teachers, that got no holidays this year, and will not get the opportunity to down tools early. On that point the way the unions framed the suggestion - without the offer of making up the days - was doomed to failure.

wirelessdude01

JimmyVik wrote: »

You walked into that one

Not the first time someone has fallen into that on this the preceding threads either. We all know that school is part of society and life is built around schedules and routine, just funny when it slips out like that about childminding.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

So your family lives here, you don't and so you aren't in tune with the news here. That is the only point that was made. No one is questioning your interest. :rolleyes:

https://www.rte.ie/news/

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

And so... let's PLAN for them, right? Not leave things last minute when they've predicted for a while now numbers will be worse after Christmas when people will need to be visiting friends and family as allowed.

That's just more nonsense. We do plan and we agree in advance how we do things. Just because you disagree with the plan it doesn't mean there isn't one. It's just not the one you'd like.

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

So your family lives here, you don't and so you aren't in tune with the news here. That is the only point that was made. No one is questioning your interest. :rolleyes:

What your leave and work schedule has to do with anything is anyone's guess.

Yes if only things like internet existed.

Stateofyou

JDD wrote: »

I don't see why parents are petitioning for the school to close early when it is perfectly open to them to take their children out early if they want to. Perhaps they are petitioning on behalf of the teachers. Fair enough if so, but I do hope they surveyed all the parents, as there may well have been a few where both parents work outside the home and would have been put in a very awkward position. Those parents tend not be closely involved with Parents Associations and school Whats App groups.

The teachers' union would not have been villified if they had said that they wished for schools to close early before christmas, and the days would have been made up after christmas or at easter. If they had put that forward, it would have been perfectly acceptable. Awkward for some parents to get emergency childcare, but a reasonable suggestion overall.

However, they made the mistake of framing it as extra holidays for exhausted teachers. Teachers may well be exhausted - but the point of looking for the extra days before Christmas was for self isolation purposes, not recuperation days. And there's so many other sectors of society that are more exhausted then teachers, that got no holidays this year, and will not get the opportunity to down tools early. On that point the way the unions framed the suggestion - without the offer of making up the days - was doomed to failure.

I think they don't want it on their child's attendance records, and they would like the early close days to be compensated elsewhere so as to not be lost. And I think many do care about their children's teachers also being able to have proper and safer time with their families over Christmas, too.

As for the unions and teachers pushing things... look. I think the Government and DES should take responsibility and control here. Angela Merkel did. It wasn't her teachers/unions who fought for it.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/

Don't post links without an explanation as to it's purpose. I won't read otherwise. Stubborn that way (and mods seem to get stroppy over it too).

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes if only things like internet existed.

Yeah, and if only an effort was made to keep up in the country of the post you're on nearly every day instead of just saying other people are incorrect about what the government has said in regards to an increase of cases after Christmas. If only... :rolleyes:

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

As for the unions and teachers pushing things... look. I think the Government and DES should take responsibility and control here. Angela Merkel did. It wasn't her teachers/unions who fought for it.

Look up 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000 in Germany and Ireland tell me about responsibility and control.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

"ICU personnel have been stretched thin for years. We have far too few qualified nurses,"

Again another relative term without comparison is pretty meaningless.

This is the situation in Ireland.

The Irish Hospital Consultants Association has said that one million people are on a waiting list to be seen at an acute hospital.

Speaking at the organisation's annual conference today, its president, Dr Donal O’Hanlon, said almost 570,000 people were waiting to be seen by a consultant

Are 16 million people in Germany waiting over a year to be seen at an acute hospital?

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh bravo. The usual bs response.

Schools are part of society, things are planned around school and when people need time off. You just can't see it because you don't work and it doesn't affect you.

meeeeh wrote: »

That's just more nonsense. We do plan and we agree in advance how we do things. Just because you disagree with the plan it doesn't mean there isn't one. It's just not the one you'd like.

You're talking nonsense now. You are the one who said things should be planned. So I said, yeah, so they should make a plan for the circumstances everyone saw a mile off, right?
So my reply was in response to you saying time off has to be planned around school. Whether I like or agree with the plan is irrelevant.

SusanC10

SusanC10 wrote: »

Why aren't they allowed to wear coats ?
We got an email from our Secondary School saying that the kids should wear layers plus coats if necessary.

I don't know. It's school policy apparently. And this is a large community school.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Again another relative term without comparison is pretty meaningless.

This is the situation in Ireland.



Are 16 million people in Germany waiting over a year to be seen at an acute hospital?

The current crisis in ICU in Germany is related to hospital appointment waiting lists in Ireland how?

The contention was Germany could afford to live with the current situation due to their vastly superior ICU bed quantity. When pointed out they are already at breaking point (with nurses not beds being the primary issue), its suddenly about waiting lists?

The German healthcare system is excellent, but they are reached breaking point. Hopefully they will pull back from the brink just like we have for now

meeeeh

Deleted User wrote: »

The current crisis in ICU in Germany is related to hospital appointment waiting lists in Ireland how?

The contention was Germany could afford to live with the current situation due to their vastly superior ICU bed quantity. When pointed out they are already at breaking point (with nurses not beds being the primary issue), its suddenly about waiting lists?

The German healthcare system is excellent, but they are reached breaking point. Hopefully they will pull back from the brink just like we have for now

Exactly and the best example is Lombardy last spring. Even good or excellent health systems can get overwhelmed.

blanch152

Stateofyou wrote: »

I think they don't want it on their child's attendance records, and they would like the early close days to be compensated elsewhere so as to not be lost. And I think many do care about their children's teachers also being able to have proper and safer time with their families over Christmas, too.

As for the unions and teachers pushing things... look. I think the Government and DES should take responsibility and control here. Angela Merkel did. It wasn't her teachers/unions who fought for it.

Teachers get two weeks holidays already over Christmas to have proper and safer time with their families.

Creche workers, who have closer contact with kids, don't.
Nurses, who have closer contact with those at risk, don't.
Doctors, Physios, Healthcare assistants don't.
Neither do gardai, firemen, meat-factory workers, retail workers etc. all of whom are at far higher risk of Covid than teachers.