Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Blondini

Rodin wrote: »

Why are unions crying about teachers wearing coats in class and threatening to close if there's a 'cold snap'?
They're really doing a poor job for the image of teacher.

Two days ago it was tshirt weather.

But if January is too cold they should shut the schools. Can pay it back in July and have all the windows open. Would that be ok?

No teacher I know has asked for closures.

And as for the image, don't make me laugh.

wirelessdude01

One thing is quite clear from the past few days. The teacher unions obviously don't spend our subs on media training or even invest any time prior to putting people on the airwaves role playing possible questions and how to answer them and direct the interview on the direction that they want.

Even for Leaving Cert orals you practiced how to direct the conversation based on your answers.

wirelessdude01

Blondini wrote: »

2/10
A pleasant student but does find this subject very difficult.
Foundation level recommended.

Maybe should consider dropping this subject altogether as unable to grasp even the basic fundamentals.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

One thing is quite clear from the past few days. The teacher unions obviously don't spend our subs on media training or even invest any time prior to putting people on the airwaves role playing possible questions and how to answer them and direct the interview on the direction that they want.

Even for Leaving Cert orals you practiced how to direct the conversation based on your answers.

It's funny cause it's not funny

MelbourneMan

Bananaleaf wrote: »

It's funny cause it's not funny

Indeed it is not funny.

In a year when various sectors have had endure the very diverse roles of; hard working healthcare heroes, or those suffering layoff and unemployment, or those putting their education or careers on hold, or those struggling with isolation or sacrifice for the good of others, and where even politicians and cabinet ministers have come in for praise, it would appear that the only group coming out of it who have managed to tarnish their reputation, are the teaching unions and their members. Quite an achievement.

delly

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Is that primary or secondary?

Also when were ye given the school calendar for the year?

This is secondary. Not sure when it was set, but I clocked the date in October, via an online calender.

um7y1h83ge06nx

If the heads of the teacher unions want a career change they could always becomes porn stars, they certainly moan enough anyway.

Would be nice to see them get shafted at least.

Stateofyou

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Indeed it is not funny.

In a year when various sectors have had endure the very diverse roles of; hard working healthcare heroes, or those suffering layoff and unemployment, or those putting their education or careers on hold, or those struggling with isolation or sacrifice for the good of others, and where even politicians and cabinet ministers have come in for praise, it would appear that the only group coming out of it who have managed to tarnish their reputation, are the teaching unions and their members. Quite an achievement.

Some teacher here should give you high marks for your efforts in stirring your agenda pot. Honestly, top of the class stuff here.

I wouldn't be too smug about your sectors reputation if I were you...

Jim Leahy

Give nurses teachers wages

beggars_bush

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

One thing is quite clear from the past few days. The teacher unions obviously don't spend our subs on media training or even invest any time prior to putting people on the airwaves role playing possible questions and how to answer them and direct the interview on the direction that they want.

Even for Leaving Cert orals you practiced how to direct the conversation based on your answers.

Dunno
Heard the head of two teacher unions on the radio earlier and they sounded very reasonable

Where's the cleaning money?
Where's the extra heating money?
Where's the promised ict money for kids still at home?

End two tier pay to get more teachers to move home to fill vavant positions

Cluedo Monopoly

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Indeed it is not funny.

In a year when various sectors have had endure the very diverse roles of; hard working healthcare heroes, or those suffering layoff and unemployment, or those putting their education or careers on hold, or those struggling with isolation or sacrifice for the good of others, and where even politicians and cabinet ministers have come in for praise, it would appear that the only group coming out of it who have managed to tarnish their reputation, are the teaching unions and their members. Quite an achievement.

I might be wrong but I get the strong impression that a substantial number of teachers do not want to be teachers. That they chose the wrong career or the vocation isn't there anymore. That cohort only seem to be happy when they are off or getting more pay/allowances.

Smacruairi

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Indeed it is not funny.

In a year when various sectors have had endure the very diverse roles of; hard working healthcare heroes, or those suffering layoff and unemployment, or those putting their education or careers on hold, or those struggling with isolation or sacrifice for the good of others, and where even politicians and cabinet ministers have come in for praise, it would appear that the only group coming out of it who have managed to tarnish their reputation, are the teaching unions and their members. Quite an achievement.

Only group? Nah your buddies in FG with their appointments of judges by throwing out all other CVs, Golfgate, leaking confidential documents to friends, members double jobbing and exploiting expenses, arguing with NPHET before having to follow their advice anyway, nursing home scandals and more.

People hate teachers but you have managed to even overshadow them and make SF an actual option on the ballot for many. Now that is quite an achievement!

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Again, TUI representatives are elected by TUI members (teachers) to represent them. It might not be your union, but all union representatives are elected by their members. I accept that this wasn't a request from TUI members, but maybe they should choose their representatives more carefully.

I'm a TUI member (I am not for a second defending the ridiculous nature of their stance on this) but just a point of clarification, the TUI rep who spoke on Newstalk was the general secretary, it is an interviewed position not one voted on by membership.

Loafing Oaf

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I might be wrong but I get the strong impression that a substantial number of teachers do not want to be teachers. That they chose the wrong career or the vocation isn't there anymore.

Or it's just a case of

Dickie10

are they releasing numbers of cases in schools? surely its plain as day the rasing cases is from schools coming back 3 weeks agao

wirelessdude01

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I might be wrong but I get the strong impression that a substantial number of teachers do not want to be teachers. That they chose the wrong career or the vocation isn't there anymore. That cohort only seem to be happy when they are off or getting more pay/allowances.

You're wrong.

We aren't in the 1960s anymore. The idea that teaching is a vocation anymore is pretty much dead in the water. Teaching is a job. End of. You know the phrase, live to work. Now redundant.

Thats me

Dickie10 wrote: »

are they releasing numbers of cases in schools? surely its plain as day the rasing cases is from schools coming back 3 weeks agao

Unlikely anybody believe cases of transmission in schools can be tracked or at least number of children having covid can be evaluated: children are mainly asymptomatic and tests are too expensive.

Jim Leahy

Dickie10 wrote: »

are they releasing numbers of cases in schools? surely its plain as day the rasing cases is from schools coming back 3 weeks agao

you have enough days off Dickson, nice try though

Lillyfae

History Queen wrote: »

I'm a TUI member (I am not for a second defending the ridiculous nature of their stance on this) but just a point of clarification, the TUI rep who spoke on Newstalk was the general secretary, it is an interviewed position not one voted on by membership.

I do appreciate that point, and many TUI members have been saying the same. My point is that the representation has been appalling and anyone defending it from a membership point of view needs to think about how these people become the representatives in the first place. If you are a member of the TUI and they say something ridiculous then people are going to think that is representative of TUI teachers views. It's not a giant leap to make. I take your point about him being a hire too, but what a waste of your contributions. You do have my sympathy but members have the power to change it.

khalessi

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Indeed it is not funny.

In a year when various sectors have had endure the very diverse roles of; hard working healthcare heroes, or those suffering layoff and unemployment, or those putting their education or careers on hold, or those struggling with isolation or sacrifice for the good of others, and where even politicians and cabinet ministers have come in for praise, it would appear that the only group coming out of it who have managed to tarnish their reputation, are the teaching unions and their members. Quite an achievement.

Actually teachers have been scorned for years so no real change there. It is amazing how many people love to bash teachers, almost a hobby on boards for at least 15 years from what I have seen.

khalessi

Jim Leahy wrote: »

Give nurses teachers wages

I earned more as a nurse than I do as a teacher and had better time off. I also didnt have to bring work home or spend my own wages on supplies for work.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

I earned more as a nurse than I do as a teacher and had better time off. I also didnt have to bring work home or spend my own wages on supplies for work.

Well you must have been a CNM or something, or you were doing a lot of nights. A top of the scale senior staff nurse is on 48k. Of course they can do overtime etc, but that isn't comparing like with like. Secondary school teachers who started before 2011 have a final salary of ~65k and also the qualification allowance. Those who started after 2011 have a final salary after 25 years of ~70k, with no allowance paid. I am not sure what the scale is for primary teachers but I was under the impression it was similar/same.
With respect to "better holidays", I suppose it depends on what you are comparing. A teacher will have an additional 3 months holidays, but they are fixed rather that flexible. I think most people would rather this.
You also have the fact that a primary teacher will be working from 9-1:30/2:30 or thereabouts. It is actually a pretty good return for the number of hours you have to do.

Thats me

Thats me wrote: »

There is new CovidStatisticsProfileHPSCIrelandOpenData dataset available, now it includes 17th November, so i just mapped period between 1 Sep and 17th November with the ratios quoted by raind above in this thread. This is what i got:



I would say test ratios sometimes can be very misleading and not reflecting real cases dynamics.

Its pretty clear form your overlay that positive case rate is a strong leading indicator by a couple of days

meeeeh

There are three teachers here that said their conditions were better in private sector/nursing where they worked before. I presume they could all return to their previous jobs.

I'm not going into nurses/teachers/ whoever pay comparison. It's irrelevant but spare me with statements how much better you had it in previous job. There is a reason why you left previous jobs for teaching.

8k71ps

It's not a lockdown when the schools, a large element of the community and thearfore transmission, are open. I have literally no idea what they're doing , what is the point of constraining transmission in one area only to have it continue to spread increasingly concentrated in one sector? Sure especially since parents probably aren't too fond of their kids mingling outside of school it'll just blow up again the moment they reopen the country if that's the main vector currently.

Are they just hoping the vaccines will be in widespread use before they have to do anything in the schools, for example a hybrid learning model?

JimmyVik

Dickie10 wrote: »

are they releasing numbers of cases in schools? surely its plain as day the rasing cases is from schools coming back 3 weeks agao

Pretty sure they have numbers on household outbreaks that most likely came from school children. They have it for funerals and pubs etc.
If they arent getting that data about schools, well they should be fired for not doing their job.

You would think they would talk about that research or publish wouldnt you.

JimmyVik

Lillyfae wrote: »

I do appreciate that point, and many TUI members have been saying the same. My point is that the representation has been appalling and anyone defending it from a membership point of view needs to think about how these people become the representatives in the first place. If you are a member of the TUI and they say something ridiculous then people are going to think that is representative of TUI teachers views. It's not a giant leap to make. I take your point about him being a hire too, but what a waste of your contributions. You do have my sympathy but members have the power to change it.

The top brass of the TUI should actually step down. They are actually the enemy of the people they supposedly represent.

8k71ps

JimmyVik wrote: »

The top brass of the TUI should actually step down. They are actually the enemy of the people they supposedly represent.

Teachers unions are pretty notorious for this, I don't think anything will happen unless an immense disaster, like a document leaked showing the government clearly covering up the outbreaks in the schools and them doing nothing or something.

thomasdylan

khalessi wrote: »

I earned more as a nurse than I do as a teacher and had better time off. I also didnt have to bring work home or spend my own wages on supplies for work.

Whatever about the rest I am surprised about the time off comment. Working nights, Christmas Eve, Christmas day and other holidays is one of the difficult parts of nursing that isn't there in teaching. Working shifts and switching between nights and days (as nurses do) has a proven link to chronic diseases like hypertension and diabetes and reduced life expectancy.

'Better time off' is very subjective and I'm not sure it would be a thought shared with your colleagues in either job.

Lillyfae

JimmyVik wrote: »

The top brass of the TUI should actually step down. They are actually the enemy of the people they supposedly represent.

I think that is what some of the teachers here really don't understand. The representation is what the public sees, and it's not good. If the unions are causing people to take a poor view of teachers because the representative views are not the teacher views it's not teacher bashing. But the teachers are the only ones who can do something about it.