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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • #4112
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    Magic money tree strikes again.

    https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1329381679690084353


  • #4113
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    statesaver wrote: »
    Magic money tree strikes again.

    https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1329381679690084353

    well in fairness they are paying ~€3000 in registration fees and not getting the normal service/experience. I would find it hard to begrudge them a bit back when I think I only had to pay £40 registration fee per year.


  • #4114
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    I am not sure what the logic is but I assume there must be some.

    Just that the assumption is that young children can't/won't be able to social distance.


  • #4115
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    Redeployed for two weeks (during which I did two 48 hour shifts), derogated twice (as of last week). Holidays cancelled, and they'd be a few less days than your own to start with.

    Huge amounts of people in difficult situations have had to step up.

    I have absolutely no problem if NPHET recommend schools close early for Christmas but closures should not be dictated by teachers and their unions. You seem to think closing early is some kind of appreciation needed for people working in schools but need to recognise the disruption it would cause to loads of others. I don't think any other union has asked for extra holidays because they need a 'morale boost'.

    Again you seem to be making bull**** up about me, quote where i said i think we should be left off on the 18th as a form of appreciation, what absolute crap.

    So whats your job and what where you redeployed as?

    On the subject of holidays, you could always have chosen to be an SNA, you chose something else.

    Don't be building some grudge against SNAs because the government couldn't figure out how to use us in relation to the job we signed up for. For the record a lot of my students regressed in lockdown and i would have given anything to try and help them, instead we where threatened with being thrown into elder care and hospitals as medical assistants, i wasn't about to endanger the lives of those i love because i had to "don the green jersey" For the greater good.


  • #4116
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You post has an agenda which is either anti-teacher or anti-union or maybe just anti-TUI.

    Which is it?

    HYPOTHETICALLY, If someone were to post nearly exclusively on the Irish schools thread, whilst neither an Irish resident or a teacher/SNA, and relished any sideswipe at teachers, I would think the agenda was pretty clear.


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  • #4117
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Again you seem to be making bull**** up about me, quote where i said i think we should be left off on the 18th as a form of appreciation, what absolute crap.

    So whats your job and what where you redeployed as?

    On the subject of holidays, you could always have chosen to be an SNA, you chose something else.

    Don't be building some grudge against SNAs because the government couldn't figure out how to use us in relation to the job we signed up for. For the record a lot of my students regressed in lockdown and i would have given anything to try and help them, instead we where threatened with being thrown into elder care and hospitals as medical assistants, i wasn't about to endanger the lives of those i love because i had to "don the green jersey" For the greater good.


    This is what you said:

    "Its two bloody days so that they can spend Christmas with their families/loved ones and not worry about bringing covid home after working in unsafe classrooms 3 days before Christmas day. So much for the appreciation of the hard work put down since schools reopening ffs."

    I've no grudge against SNAs


  • #4118
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    I have absolutely no problem if NPHET recommend schools close early for Christmas but closures should not be dictated by teachers and their unions.

    NPHET will not recommend closing schools under any circumstances (at least publicly), the government have labelled them a core sector to be kept open at all costs.

    So you get the absolute dangerously stupid folly of nonsensical trade offs between governance and public health.


  • #4119
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    jrosen wrote: »
    Im not against on line teaching, especially if it would allow all students to have access to a broader curriculum and a variety of teachers with lots of expertise and experience. However school isn't just about education, there is a huge social element too which would be lost. Our kids learn so much more than whats in a book at school. I also dont think anything can truly replace face to face.

    We also dont have a society that is set up to support such a move. We cant have thousands of kids at home alone every day which is what would happen because not every parent has the option to work from home.

    I agree. Online teaching was fine for filling a gap in an emergency, but there is too much inequality in our society for online teaching on a wide scale to be viable. None of my parents progressed past primary school (teens in the 1940's so not unusual). All their children are educated to degree level. That is an amazing transformation. Brought about by availability of "free education"

    Currently with grind schools, paying for extra lessons etc there is an advantage for some compared to others, but still a talented hardworking kid from a deprived background can still do well in our education system.

    If they were depending on availability of tech at home and committed parents they might not be able to progress as well.

    There is already inequality in our education system, but online teaching exacerbates this inequality.


  • #4120
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    joe40 wrote: »
    There is already inequality in our education system, but online teaching exacerbates this inequality.

    This is not about hot to teach people. This is about how to stop pandemic and who will be minding children of essential workers. If distant education not possible by any reason - nothing prepends just to make pause in education.

    Current anecdotic approach when we all putting on semblance like we have lockdown when in reality we haven't - the worst possible approach. It does not stop pandemic, affecting businesses and warrant subsequent turns of clownery known as "lockdowns".


  • #4121
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    This is what you said:

    "Its two bloody days so that they can spend Christmas with their families/loved ones and not worry about bringing covid home after working in unsafe classrooms 3 days before Christmas day. So much for the appreciation of the hard work put down since schools reopening ffs."

    I've no grudge against SNAs

    What i intended by what i said was that it was a day and a half for the sake of people being able to safely spend Christmas with their families, i mentioned appreciation as all it took for everyone to start ****ting on educators, yet again, was this day and a half off, which may i add, we didn't even ask for.

    As for no grudge, whatever about SNAs, you certainly have one for me considering how closely you follow what i post


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  • #4122
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    for the sake of people being able to safely spend Christmas with their families

    It will not allow enough time for isolation, but may be will be enough to produce false sense of safety...


  • #4123
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,268 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    What i intended by what i said was that it was a day and a half for the sake of people being able to safely spend Christmas with their families, i mentioned appreciation as all it took for everyone to start ****ting on educators, yet again, was this day and a half off, which may i add, we didn't even ask for.

    As for no grudge, whatever about SNAs, you certainly have one for me considering how closely you follow what i post

    A week would not be enough to isolate anyway if intending it to be safe to visit vulnerable people ?


  • #4124
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    A week would not be enough to isolate anyway if intending it to be safe to visit vulnerable people ?

    It would certainly give a better indication if someone had symptoms rather than 2 days.


  • #4125
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Thats me wrote: »
    It will not allow enough time for isolation, but may be will be enough to produce false sense of safety...
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    A week would not be enough to isolate anyway if intending it to be safe to visit vulnerable people ?
    The duration of restriction of movements should be carefully informed with
    consideration of the benefits and risks in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.
    The results of this review indicate that the widely recommended 14-day period is
    likely to capture approximately 95% of individuals who will become symptomatic. In
    contrast, a reduction to 10 or seven days would capture approximately 84% and
    64% of individuals, respectively

    .


  • #4126
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    It would certainly give a better indication if someone had symptoms rather than 2 days.

    This is example of false sense of safety.


  • #4127
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,329 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    combat14 wrote: »
    just watching rte lunchtime news and george lee says that covid r number has gone from 0.6 back up to about 1 again

    people are not taking lockdown seriously apparently

    no mention of schools but surely has to be a factor after almost a month of level 5 lockdown...

    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1118/1178987-school-clusters/

    I don't think so.

    "There has been a marked fall in the number of Covid-19 outbreaks recorded in schools, according to the latest Health Protection Surveillance Centre data."

    It seems to be a myth that schools are unsafe.


  • #4128
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1118/1178987-school-clusters/

    I don't think so.

    "There has been a marked fall in the number of Covid-19 outbreaks recorded in schools, according to the latest Health Protection Surveillance Centre data."

    It seems to be a myth that schools are unsafe.

    Lets not take into account that the numbers of cases in schools are somewhat unknown due to the fact that close contacts are often not tested. Cases in children are blamed on community transmission rather than schools. Article in Irish Times this week of one parent story regarding his child not being considered a close contact and then developing Covid which he says was a school infection. NPHET Public Health Consultant Dr. Abigail Collins already said that they are being very conservative in who is chosen as a close contacts in schools.

    Another public healtch consultant wrote on twitter this was because if a child has to isolate who will mind them, if the parents are working.

    A teacher had a positive case and insisited class tested adn 7 other children who were asymptomatic were found to be positive.

    So who knows what the real numbers are.


  • #4129
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1118/1178987-school-clusters/

    I don't think so.

    "There has been a marked fall in the number of Covid-19 outbreaks recorded in schools, according to the latest Health Protection Surveillance Centre data."

    It seems to be a myth that schools are unsafe.

    Nope.

    That would encompass the midterm, no?

    Cases halved, certainly questions the narrative though.


  • #4130
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It seems to be a myth that schools are unsafe.

    For these, who missed earlier discussion:


  • #4131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Falling again

    533447.JPG


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  • #4132
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Falling again

    533447.JPG

    Looks like positive test rate curves are different from real counts of new cases:

    533453.png


  • #4133
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    joe40 wrote: »
    I agree. Online teaching was fine for filling a gap in an emergency, but there is too much inequality in our society for online teaching on a wide scale to be viable. None of my parents progressed past primary school (teens in the 1940's so not unusual). All their children are educated to degree level. That is an amazing transformation. Brought about by availability of "free education"

    Currently with grind schools, paying for extra lessons etc there is an advantage for some compared to others, but still a talented hardworking kid from a deprived background can still do well in our education system.

    If they were depending on availability of tech at home and committed parents they might not be able to progress as well.

    There is already inequality in our education system, but online teaching exacerbates this inequality.

    It doesn't have to. If the government properly develops and equips teachers and students it can work well.


  • #4134
    Messi19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Messi19


    I wonder why the UK seem to have a much higher school spread than we have here. Maybe it's because they're not trying to bury the issue


  • #4135
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Messi19 wrote: »
    I wonder why the UK seem to have a much higher school spread than we have here. Maybe it's because they're not trying to bury the issue

    Anyone know how the UK classifies close contacts in the school system?


  • #4136
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Messi19 wrote: »
    I wonder why the UK seem to have a much higher school spread than we have here. Maybe it's because they're not trying to bury the issue

    What is that? It is difficult to know without any context. Am I reading it correctly that 1.2% of cases are in households fewer than 5?


  • #4137
    Messi19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Messi19


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    What is that? It is difficult to know without any context. Am I reading it correctly that 1.2% of cases are in households fewer than 5?

    It appears to be the latest data from public health England


  • #4138
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Messi19 wrote: »
    I wonder why the UK seem to have a much higher school spread than we have here. Maybe it's because they're not trying to bury the issue

    Different species of small humans over there. Not built like the robust young respiratory systems in the mystical Emerald Isle, the land of pods and bubbles. Begorrah!


  • #4139
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,329 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    What is that? It is difficult to know without any context. Am I reading it correctly that 1.2% of cases are in households fewer than 5?

    That is extremely strange because it suggests that spouses sharing a bed don't spread it to one another, while it spreads like wildfire in schools.

    I would think it doesn't refer to where transmission takes place.


  • #4140
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    There is new CovidStatisticsProfileHPSCIrelandOpenData dataset available, now it includes 17th November, so i just mapped period between 1 Sep and 17th November with the ratios quoted by raind above in this thread. This is what i got:

    533464.png

    I would say test ratios sometimes can be very misleading and not reflecting real cases dynamics.


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  • #4141
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Why are unions crying about teachers wearing coats in class and threatening to close if there's a 'cold snap'?
    They're really doing a poor job for the image of teacher.

    Two days ago it was tshirt weather.

    But if January is too cold they should shut the schools. Can pay it back in July and have all the windows open. Would that be ok?


This discussion has been closed.
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